Potential SageTV Win 8 "Metro" app

[JerryB]

I really liked cncb's Vista/Windows 7 Sidebar gadget as a simple means of keeping track of current and upcoming SageTV recordings and have come to miss this functionality with Microsoft's removal of sidebar support in the RTM version of Windows 8.

Therefore, in an attempt to replace at least some of this functionality and to gain experience developing "Metro" apps, I have decided to try and develop a "Metro" app that queries the SageTV server and provides a scrolling list of current and upcoming recordings with the ability select any recording on this list and obtain further information (description, actors/crew, season/episode, rating, high definition, channel, etc.) regarding that recording.

Whether or not I will be able to implement all the functionality that I'd like in this app, I don't know. Furthermore, given the current state of SageTV and the lack of information about its future, I recognize that one could question the wisdom of initiating a new development effort at this stage, especially one targeting Windows 8. Still, I'd like to keep my SageTV system going as long as possible (or at least until a better alternative comes along) and, to this end, would like to try and recover some of the functionality that I've lost. Moreover, even if this effort doesn't end up producing a widely used app, I figure that what I learn about developing Windows 8 "Metro" apps will be beneficial.

Currently, what I would like to know is:

• Outside of my own personal use, is there any interest in this type of app?
• If you are interested, are you able and willing to be a beta tester?

Please be aware that, given Microsoft's rules for Windows 8 apps, any beta tester would have to have their own licensed copy of Windows 8 RTM and a Microsoft developers license (required in order to sideload beta versions of the app prior to its release). In addition, the released version of the app would have to be submitted to and approved by Microsoft and distributed through their new Windows store, although it can be distributed as a "free" app.

[darcilicious]

Yes, I would be interested in this "app". I won't be able to beta test unfortunately, given the requirements you posted

[Spartan]

Please put me on the list. I'm a Windows Phone developer, and although my dev license has now expired, I am likely going to renew it at some point. If possible, I'd also like to help out with the development (if I can).

-Matt

[JerryB]

Originally Posted by darcilicious

Yes, I would be interested in this "app". I won't be able to beta test unfortunately, given the requirements you posted

I understand. While I can understand why Microsoft has locked down Windows 8 apps for security reasons, I think that requiring a developer's license in order to be able to sideload apps for testing purposes is going to make it difficult to find sufficient beta testers.

[darcilicious]

What's a developer's license cost these days? Would subscribing to TechNet do the trick or ??

[JerryB]

Originally Posted by Spartan

Please put me on the list. I'm a Windows Phone developer, and although my dev license has now expired, I am likely going to renew it at some point. If possible, I'd also like to help out with the development (if I can).

-Matt

Great. Let me know when you have Windows 8 installed. You can get a one month (renewable) developer license for Windows 8 apps for free with a Microsoft/Windows live ID. That's the license I'm using since Microsoft is currently only accepting developer registrations for Windows 8 apps from companies. Once they open up the registrations to individuals, I'll register as a developer, at which point I should be able to get a developer license that's good for a year.

This app involves so many firsts for me that I'll take any help I can get. I spent days just figuring out initial layouts since, for Microsoft certification, the app has to run on a wide variety of screen sizes and resolutions in both portrait and landscape orientation. I had everything setup based on my development monitor only to find that some display elements didn't appear correctly, ie were cut off, on lower resolution screens, some didn't appear correctly when the app was snapped to the side of the screen, and others didn't appear correctly when the device was rotated from landscape to portrait mode.

[JerryB]

Originally Posted by darcilicious

What's a developer's license cost these days? Would subscribing to TechNet do the trick or ??

Right now, Microsoft is so anxious to have people develop Windows 8 apps that they're giving away developers licenses that are good for 1 month, and renewable on a monthly basis, upon request, to anyone with a Microsoft ID. However, I don't know how long they'll continue to do this. They may stop, once the Windows Store is fully operational and begins to register individual developers. Currently, Microsoft is only allowing companies to register as developers and haven't indicated when they'll open registration up to individual software developers. You need to be a registered developer for the Windows 8 store in order to get developer license that lasts for more than one month.

[Denali]

A bit of information, if your willing to except the security issues that caused Microsoft to remove it, SideBar can be re-installed in Windows 8. I've tired it in X86 Pro and it seems to work and has returned the SageTV gadget under Win 8.
http://forums.mydigitallife.info/thr...-32bit-Version

[JerryB]

Here are some of screen shots of what I've created so far.

Currently, the view that is initially displayed when you run the appis a summary of the number of recordings currently scheduled in 4 time periods (currently recording, within 24 hours, this week, and all). If there are no recordings scheduled within a time period then that time period is not displayed, eg currently recording in the screen shot.

If you click on one of these time periods, you open up the detail screen for that time period. This screen summarizes all the scheduled recordings within the selected time period on the left hand side and displays detailed information about a selected entry on the right hand side.

The final image is the apps Live Tile for the start screen. This tile can summarize the data for the next 3 scheduled recordings, assuming the app is or has recently been running. Ultimately, I'd like this tile to continually update irrespective of whether or not the main app is running but I haven't yet been able to figure out a way to accomplish this. Currently, the app sends the notification messages to the tile and this only occurs when the app is running.

[wayner]

Looks good - can it be customizable the way that the old one was so that you can put the info you want. I guess this is mainly applicable to the Live Tile - I would also like to see free disk space, for example and Epiosde names.

[JerryB]

I'm not trying to duplicate the SageTV gadget. That's cncb's product and code. I don't want to end up playing Samsung to cncb's Apple

For now, I'm just trying to replace some of the functionality from the gadget that I lost with the removal of gadget support in Windows 8. The first release of my app, assuming I get that far, will only summarizing the recording schedule. If there is sufficient interest, then I may add other features in later versions of the app.

It is doubtful that the Live tile will ever display free disk space or episode names. This is a limitation of Live Tiles as currently implemented by Microsoft. Specifically, there is a very small of display options (pictures and lines of text) for Live Tiles. I chose the option that permits displaying the most information (no picture, a Title line and 3 lines of text). Since I sometimes record 3 shows simultaneously, I'm not going to dedicate one of those text lines to free disk space and there just isn't enough character space in a text line to include recording time, show title, and show episode. You'll need to go to the detail screen if you want specific episode information.

[Spartan]

Originally Posted by JerryB

Great. Let me know when you have Windows 8 installed. You can get a one month (renewable) developer license for Windows 8 apps for free with a Microsoft/Windows live ID. That's the license I'm using since Microsoft is currently only accepting developer registrations for Windows 8 apps from companies. Once they open up the registrations to individuals, I'll register as a developer, at which point I should be able to get a developer license that's good for a year.

This app involves so many firsts for me that I'll take any help I can get. I spent days just figuring out initial layouts since, for Microsoft certification, the app has to run on a wide variety of screen sizes and resolutions in both portrait and landscape orientation. I had everything setup based on my development monitor only to find that some display elements didn't appear correctly, ie were cut off, on lower resolution screens, some didn't appear correctly when the app was snapped to the side of the screen, and others didn't appear correctly when the device was rotated from landscape to portrait mode.

I've had Windows 8 installed since the CTP & the RC, & now have the RTM verison on my MacBook. Lemme know whatever I can do to help.

Is the code in a shared repository at all? I'd love to get my hands on it!

[darcilicious]

I'll admit it -- I'd like a more detail view as the default. Right now, the other widget tells me what and when is going to be recording, for the next X number of recordings. This is really really useful at-a-glance info. Compared to only knowing that there are "X recordings" in the next 24 hours, and "Y recordings" in the next week -- I'm always going to want the more detailed view...

Just my $0.02 worth

[JerryB]

Originally Posted by darcilicious

I'll admit it -- I'd like a more detail view as the default. Right now, the other widget tells me what and when is going to be recording, for the next X number of recordings.

Just to be clear. Are you saying that you'd like to get rid of the first "summary" page and just have the second "detail" screen? Remember that currently the Live Tile information may not be up to date since this tile only gets refreshed when the main program is running and Windows 8 can shut down a Metro app at any time when it needs memory. Does anyone else have any thoughts or comments about eliminating the summary page and just providing detail information on all scheduled recordings?

[darcilicious]

Originally Posted by JerryB

Just to be clear. Are you saying that you'd like to get rid of the first "summary" page and just have the second "detail" screen?

That's my preference... but others may want something else

Remember that currently the Live Tile information may not be up to date since this tile only gets refreshed when the main program is running and Windows 8 can shut down a Metro app at any time when it needs memory.

Hmmm... so there's no way to set an "update schedule" interval (like the current widget)? Any way to manually force it without the main program running?

I only ask because I haven't played with Win8 for any length of time yet but it might be time to

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by JerryB

I'm not trying to duplicate the SageTV gadget. That's cncb's product and code. I don't want to end up playing Samsung to cncb's Apple

For now, I'm just trying to replace some of the functionality from the gadget that I lost with the removal of gadget support in Windows 8. The first release of my app, assuming I get that far, will only summarizing the recording schedule. If there is sufficient interest, then I may add other features in later versions of the app.

It is doubtful that the Live tile will ever display free disk space or episode names. This is a limitation of Live Tiles as currently implemented by Microsoft. Specifically, there is a very small of display options (pictures and lines of text) for Live Tiles. I chose the option that permits displaying the most information (no picture, a Title line and 3 lines of text). Since I sometimes record 3 shows simultaneously, I'm not going to dedicate one of those text lines to free disk space and there just isn't enough character space in a text line to include recording time, show title, and show episode. You'll need to go to the detail screen if you want specific episode information.

After seeing your posts, I decided to take a look at the msdn website for more info on live tiles in Win8. It looks like Microsoft has established some very firm guidelines that really limit what you can do (not necessarily a bad thing). You must use one of their pre-defined templates, and can't just arbitrarily choose how big to make the tile, how many lines of text, or what font to use.

Based on this, I can see why it is difficult to show all the things that some people might be interested in seeing. One possible solution you may wish to consider is something called "secondary tiles". This would allow you to create additional tiles with more specialized information. They are still limited to most of the same constraints as the regular tiles, but it would allow you to display additional content. A possible example would be to show a secondary tile with the 3 most recent recordings.

Some other ideas you might consider would be to use a badge with a number that shows the number of recordings currently in progress. Or, a badge with a new message glyph to indicate if there are any new system messages from Sage.

Anyway, just thought I would throw some ideas out there. The screenshots you posted earlier look like a nice start.

[JerryB]

Originally Posted by darcilicious

Hmmm... so there's no way to set an "update schedule" interval (like the current widget)? Any way to manually force it without the main program running?

My goal was and still is to have the Live Tile continually updated without requiring the Recording Schedule App to be running in the background. Unfortunately, I haven't yet been able to figure out a way to do this. Perhaps someone who is more familiar with web development can help out. If not, I'm going to keep trying to see if I can figure out a way.

Basically there are 2 ways to update a Live tile. One way is for the app to notify the Tile to update its display via what Microsoft calls notification extensions. This method requires the app to be running in order to create and send the notification to the tile. This is the method I'm currently using. The other is by having the Tile intermittently poll a website for the information as a background process. Ideally, this is the method I'd like to use since it doesn't require the app to be running. Unfortunately, this method requires that the website respond to the polling by returning a file that contains all the necessary information to update the Tile is a very specific format and I haven't been able to figure out how to call the SageTV server in a way that returns only the required information to update the tile in the required format.

[JerryB]

Originally Posted by Tiki

After seeing your posts, I decided to take a look at the msdn website for more info on live tiles in Win8. It looks like Microsoft has established some very firm guidelines that really limit what you can do (not necessarily a bad thing). You must use one of their pre-defined templates, and can't just arbitrarily choose how big to make the tile, how many lines of text, or what font to use.

Based on this, I can see why it is difficult to show all the things that some people might be interested in seeing. One possible solution you may wish to consider is something called "secondary tiles". This would allow you to create additional tiles with more specialized information. They are still limited to most of the same constraints as the regular tiles, but it would allow you to display additional content. A possible example would be to show a secondary tile with the 3 most recent recordings.

Some other ideas you might consider would be to use a badge with a number that shows the number of recordings currently in progress. Or, a badge with a new message glyph to indicate if there are any new system messages from Sage.

I agree, secondary tiles and badges are potential options to display a little more information but the amount of information that can be displayed is still going to be very limited given Microsoft's limitations regarding tile size, lines of text, and font. In any event, this extra information is only useful if I can update the Live tile when the app is not running and so far, I've not been able to figure out a way to do this.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by JerryB

Unfortunately, this method requires that the website respond to the polling by returning a file that contains all the necessary information to update the Tile is a very specific format and I haven't been able to figure out how to call the SageTV server in a way that returns only the required information to update the tile in the required format.

Brute force method maybe? Write your own java class that you communicate with. Then you can return whatever you want from SageTV you just build a "General" type SageTV plugin.

[stuckless]

FYI.... the sagex-apis provide a REST interface to the sagetv apis. So, if you can invoke any sagetv api call and return the data as json or xml from the server.

To use the sagex-apis, you need to have the sagex-services plugin installed and if you do, then you can, can test it out by pointing your browser to...

http://server:8080/sagex/api

You should get a help page with some information on how to invoke the api.

And, on a side note, the sagex-apis, is what is used in the new google fibre/sagetv product... although I hear that they may be replacing sagex with their own service api at some point.

sagex-api also allows your to publish your own services to the server in a javascript file and then you can call those services remotes. The Plex plugin uses this feature, if I recall. This feature is handy because you may want to do something a little more complex and it's faster to grab a bunch of files on the server, process then, and then send back the results instead of doing it on the client. The services javascript is like "storage procedures".