Google Fiber

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by Brent

Would you be hesitant to pay $10 to pre-register if that $10 is refundable if you don't end up getting the service OR the $10 goes towards your first bill? That's the only commitment you make at this point to pre-register.

It's funny you say that... I agonized over whether or not I would "pre-order" the Pebble watch. The thing is- there's no commitment to buy, nor did I have to enter any billing information. Basically it was just a sign up sheet, except I think I do get some sort of first crack at it when it does come out. So why did I agonize over it? I have no idea.

Now, the $10 isn't fully refundable. If they decide to build out your neighborhood, but you change your mind, they don't give you the $10 back.

Originally Posted by Brent

I'm pretty darn confident (99.9999999% sure) they will. That's about all I can say about that. Believe me, I want my sports channels as I'm a bit of a sports addict for certain teams.

I wouldn't be hugely surprised if there are some gaps, at least for a while, when it launches. Still, I suspect Google will eat whatever they have to get channels like ESPN, even if that means they're going to take a hit on their profits. They're not (primarily) out to make money on this venture, but they certainly want it to be a success.

Originally Posted by Brent

They actually said it like that without saying contract negotiations were underway as Google has repeatedly said. That's what ticks me off.

OK. They should be telling people that Google is trying to get those other channels. But I think saying much beyond that is merely speculation.

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by wayner

I really think there is a change in the younger generation - those that are now in college and were born in about 1990 or later. These kids (1) will never own a fixed line phone and (2) are much less likely to subscribe to cable TV.

Many kids in this demographic are used to watching content on their PCs, smartphones and tablets - obtaining this content via legal or illegal means. They are much less likely to be ready to pay $70/month for cable, but they are willing to pay that amount for a great internet connection as it replaces cable, fixed line phone, etc.

This isn't the generation that is too scared to program a VCR. These kids, expecially the ones from the upper middle classes and above, have always been using the internet and have had Gameboys/DSs, etc from the time they were in kindergarten and they all carry smartphones today. They are far less threatened by technology and I don't see them living in a world where they are captive to the TV schedule as determined by the networks. They will watch when they want and how they want. And they are the future.

While I agree that the generation of which you speak (the "Millennials", I believe they're being labeled) will be that way, realize that it's still a solid 15 to 30 years (maybe more) before they are the majority, and technology companies (cable companies, cellphone companies, etc.) are willing to give the "older" generation the "we're done worrying about you, either you adopt the new technology or you have nothing" nose-thumb and just plain move on.

That said - and I've said this multiple times before here - TV is not going away any time soon (if ever) for one reason. SPORTS. You are not - ARE NOT - going to take the Steelers away from the working class coalminer in western Pennsylvania. You are NOT going to take the NHL away from Detroit or New York or Philly. You are NOT going to take SEC football away from Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Mississippi. You are not going to take Big Ten football and basketball away from Columbus, Ohio or Ann Arbor, Michigan or Bloomington, Indiana. And when I say "take away", I mean, stop having those games on TV. You think "Joe Blacklung" who works in a coal mine in Western PA has a 4G smartphone and will be streaming Steelers games happily? Heck, no, he spent his last two Christmas bonuses to buy that 65" HDTV and he's not giving that up. Not for a long, long, looooong time.

Then you have the people I spoke of - those who are CURRENTLY 25 to 45 and who are COMPLETELY CLUELESS. These are the ones who happily pay for their DirecTV as long as it has the Big Ten Network (I live in Ohio State country) and pay for the NFL Sunday Ticket every year as well. They're not going to allow either of those things to be reduced to a tablet PC or 4" smartphone screen. Heck, they have no interest whatsoever in watching sports on anything less than 42" - maybe even 50". Maybe 30-somethings in NYC and LA are "constantly mobile" and need to have their media "on the go", but most of America wants to spend Fall Saturdays and Sundays glued into a recliner, drinking beer and watching football. And what happens to sports bars? You think those hundreds of thousands of establishments across the country that have walls plastered with 50" flatscreens are just going to sigh and remove them all? And change their slogan from "Wings, beer, sports!" to "Wings, beer, er... bring your cellphone to watch what you want!"?

Oh, and don't forget that the SEC signed a deal with CBS and ESPN last year for 15 years, for $3 BILLION? That's Billion, with a "B". Don't tell me TV is going away any time soon.

This board - just as it's skewed with people who are tech-savvy and often forget that most people aren't - is also skewed with people who don't necessarily care about sports, or for whom it's at least FAR from being a "religion". But for a large chunk of America, sports is a virtual religion - and it's going to stay on TV.

I saw an article a year ago or so that indicated that like 20-something percent of Americans have cable JUST for ESPN. And rights to the multiple ESPN channels in some markets make up as high as 44% of a person's cable bill. So to turn this conversation to what Brent was discussing.... when's Google Fiber getting that ESPN contract signed, again?

[Brent]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Now, the $10 isn't fully refundable. If they decide to build out your neighborhood, but you change your mind, they don't give you the $10 back.

Good point. If they do get to your neighborhood and you don't end up taking the service then they do not promise to return your $10.

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

I saw an article a year ago or so that indicated that like 20-something percent of Americans have cable JUST for ESPN. And rights to the multiple ESPN channels in some markets make up as high as 44% of a person's cable bill. So to turn this conversation to what Brent was discussing.... when's Google Fiber getting that ESPN contract signed, again?

Sports programming is the single most valuable TV asset. One way or another, ESPN will be in the lineup. There are certainly channels that will not make it at first at least. ESPN goes along with Disney and many other channels - they are negotiating all of those as a bundle just as they do with the other cableco's. The TV and fiber rollout to the home doesn't really begin until the end of this year anyway so they have time.

[SHS]

Originally Posted by reggie14

Now, the $10 isn't fully refundable. If they decide to build out your neighborhood, but you change your mind, they don't give you the $10 back.

That the way it should be after all your not living up to what you said going to do in frist place.
pjpjpjpj I can in sure you Sport TV will die over the TV everthing will go the way of high speed internet it may not be it my or your life time but will happing unless 12-21-2012 global apocalypse happing then we can kiss are know what.

he spent his last two Christmas bonuses to buy that 65" HDTV and he's not giving that up. Not for a long, long, looooong time.

That what a Standalone media box like a Diamond AMP1000, Vizio Co-Star is for a external Android Media Player or Smart Phone TV is for.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

That said - and I've said this multiple times before here - TV is not going away any time soon (if ever) for one reason. SPORTS. You are not - ARE NOT - going to take the Steelers away from the working class coalminer in western Pennsylvania. You are NOT going to take the NHL away from Detroit or New York or Philly.

I agree totally and sports is really the only reason that I continue to subscribe to cable. But there are other options that are becoming increasingly available. I believe you can stream baseball via mlb.tv and I think somehting similar is available for the NHL. Often these blackout your local team but you may be able to get around this by claiming to live in another city or by using VPN software, etc.

By the way, you don't need cable to watch NFL football as it is still on free TV for the most part.

Here in Canada all of our CFL football is on TSN (the Canadian version of ESPN) and lots of other sports are cable only. And the two national sports networks are owned by the two largest telecoms companies.

[pjpjpjpj]

Originally Posted by wayner

I agree totally and sports is really the only reason that I continue to subscribe to cable. But there are other options that are becoming increasingly available. I believe you can stream baseball via mlb.tv and I think somehting similar is available for the NHL. Often these blackout your local team but you may be able to get around this by claiming to live in another city or by using VPN software, etc.

By the way, you don't need cable to watch NFL football as it is still on free TV for the most part.

Here in Canada all of our CFL football is on TSN (the Canadian version of ESPN) and lots of other sports are cable only. And the two national sports networks are owned by the two largest telecoms companies.

MLB.tv does indeed black out your local team. That means you can't use it as a replacement for cable in order to see your local team. That's a deal struck with local/regional TV affiliates and the cable/sat companies that carry them, and MLB, and if they were going to budge on that, they would have already.

As for trying to get around it, MLB has a patented product - big write-up of it a few years ago in some tech mags - that determines your actual location, so it's very difficult to fake where you are. I'm sure there are ways around it (the minute it was released, I'm sure hackers began work on cracking it), but not for anyone who is even the slightest bit of a technophobe. This goes back to my whole point about the majority of America being afraid or ignorant of technology. Heck, I have a SageTV system but I'm clueless about VPN.

The overarching point - and this is true of all of this cable-content discussion - is that it's about money. And there's waaaaay too much money under long-term contract right now (especially in sports) for TV - and even free, OTA TV - to go away any time remotely soon.

[wayner]

For the most part I agree with you but I do think that we will continue to see a small shift towards other methods of distribution. But the problem with those other methods is that you don't really control the content that way that you do with Sage. I am not sure that mlb.tv lets you timeshift the way that your Sage system does and it may not let you keep the content for as long as you want, which you will rarely want to do with ports.

Regarding VPNs - the reason that you are not as familiar is that you live in the US. The World Wide Web is becoming increasing less "World Wide" and if you want to watch streaming content from Netflix, Hulu, etc you need a way of spoofing a US IP address. So those of us in Canada or other countries are much more well versed in this type of technology.

[gdippel]

Interesting NY Times article today,
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/us...-cause.html?hp

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by gdippel

Interesting NY Times article today,
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/10/us...-cause.html?hp

Why do so many issues degenerate into the "you're a racist" argument? So sad.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

Why do so many issues degenerate into the "you're a racist" argument? So sad.

It's what happens when you aren't smart enough to come up with a legitimate argument, but want recognition. The "Google might be racist" is a pretty easy way to do just that. I love that the second paragraph concluds saying that the "black" neighborhoods didn't have enough people sign up, but that's because Google is racist, not because people simply didn't sign up. Ah the world we live in...

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

Why do so many issues degenerate into the "you're a racist" argument? So sad.

Originally Posted by panteragstk

It's what happens when you aren't smart enough to come up with a legitimate argument, but want recognition. The "Google might be racist" is a pretty easy way to do just that. I love that the second paragraph concluds saying that the "black" neighborhoods didn't have enough people sign up, but that's because Google is racist, not because people simply didn't sign up. Ah the world we live in...

Yeah, it's enough to make you sick. It is sad ...

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by panteragstk

It's what happens when you aren't smart enough to come up with a legitimate argument, but want recognition. The "Google might be racist" is a pretty easy way to do just that. I love that the second paragraph concluds saying that the "black" neighborhoods didn't have enough people sign up, but that's because Google is racist, not because people simply didn't sign up. Ah the world we live in...

I was thinking about getting some custom T shirts made up that said:

(In Big letters) Blame It All On Me
(then underneath in smaller letters)White, Christian, American, Heterosexual, Male with no debt and a Paid up Mortgage.

I have no "redeeming" traits that I can think of.

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

I was thinking about getting some custom T shirts made up that said:

(In Big letters) Blame It All On Me

No, no, no! Don't you understand the world we live in? NOBODY is responsible for their own actions today. It's all somebody else's fault. Imagine what would happen if more people thought like you! How come you get to take responsibility? If you take responsibility, we'll all take responsibility, it'll be anarchy!

[gdippel]

Everybody, off your soap boxes! Must be the political season!

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by gdippel

Everybody, off your soap boxes! Must be the political season!

Just had to vent a little. I'm getting off the soapbox.....

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

Just had to vent a little. I'm getting off the soapbox.....

Good... now back to more calming discussions: racism.
/sarcasm

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

No, no, no! Don't you understand the world we live in? NOBODY is responsible for their own actions today. It's all somebody else's fault. Imagine what would happen if more people thought like you! How come you get to take responsibility? If you take responsibility, we'll all take responsibility, it'll be anarchy!

Man, you could not be more spot on. Again, sad.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

Good... now back to more calming discussions: racism.
/sarcasm

[Slugger]

Originally Posted by wayner

I agree totally and sports is really the only reason that I continue to subscribe to cable. But there are other options that are becoming increasingly available. I believe you can stream baseball via mlb.tv and I think somehting similar is available for the NHL. Often these blackout your local team but you may be able to get around this by claiming to live in another city or by using VPN software, etc.

By the way, you don't need cable to watch NFL football as it is still on free TV for the most part.

Here in Canada all of our CFL football is on TSN (the Canadian version of ESPN) and lots of other sports are cable only. And the two national sports networks are owned by the two largest telecoms companies.

There will come a time when the price point of streaming sports directly from the leagues (MLB/NFL/NHL/NBA/etc.) is cheap enough that it makes sense to drop my satellite service. Unfortunately, we're not there yet. But when we get there, I'll drop satellite like a bad habit!

I pay ~$120/mth for satellite from Sep-Apr, which includes NFL Sunday Ticket and NHL Centre Ice. The other 4 months I pay ~$90. So I pay ~$1320 per year for satellite. This gives me all the sports I need:

MLB: Blue Jays are on local sports network, no need for MLB Extra Innings
NFL: Sunday Ticket
NHL: CI package
NBA/anything else: Don't watch it or don't care enough to pay for it

Unfortunately, to stream my sports would cost me:

MLB: $249/season
NFL: $205/season
NHL: $269/season
VPN service: $60/year (req'd so Jays games aren't blacked out by mlb.tv)

So just for sports it's $783/yr or ~$65/mth. And there's a penalty to the NFL for not supporting streaming on any tv connected devices (boxee/PS3/etc.); mlb.tv and NHLCI do support streaming via devices. So for me, I'll pay the extra $50/mth for access to premium channels (HBO, movies, Discovery HD, etc, etc.) and the ability to watch it easily on my tvs.

Now if I could stream all my required sports for ~$30-35/mth then I'd drop satellite in a heartbeat (because I'm close enough to the US border that I can setup OTA and get all the major US and Canadian networks). Will that ever happen? Certainly not anytime soon, but I do monitor the situation. If I didn't care about sports I'd have dropped satellite years ago, but sports is king and the king can only be viewed on cable/satellite if you aren't willing to pay the leagues directly to stream it over the net.

EDIT: And this is only relevant if you live outside your team's local market. Like if you lived in Detroit and you were a Lions/Tigers/Pistons/Red Wings/Wolverines/Spartans fan then basic(ish) cable is all you need, right? Then paying $60/mth for cable/sat is all you need to do and if you get access to some extra specialty channels, etc. then that's a bonus. Unfortunately, all of my teams are out of market except for the Blue Jays and so the only way I can watch my teams is thru premium sports addons and today, at least to me, it's unfortunately still best for me to fork over $120/mth to the sat co during the season to have access to my sports. The access to HBO, movies, other premiums and specialties is just a side effect (and as my Sage recording history will attest to, I can certainly live without the specialties/premiums/movies).

Originally Posted by pjpjpjpj

MLB.tv does indeed black out your local team. That means you can't use it as a replacement for cable in order to see your local team. That's a deal struck with local/regional TV affiliates and the cable/sat companies that carry them, and MLB, and if they were going to budge on that, they would have already.

As for trying to get around it, MLB has a patented product - big write-up of it a few years ago in some tech mags - that determines your actual location, so it's very difficult to fake where you are. I'm sure there are ways around it (the minute it was released, I'm sure hackers began work on cracking it), but not for anyone who is even the slightest bit of a technophobe. This goes back to my whole point about the majority of America being afraid or ignorant of technology. Heck, I have a SageTV system but I'm clueless about VPN.

VPN is your answer, mlb.tv ain't blocking locals and it'll only run you $5/mth. So much for MLB's patented technology!

The overarching point - and this is true of all of this cable-content discussion - is that it's about money. And there's waaaaay too much money under long-term contract right now (especially in sports) for TV - and even free, OTA TV - to go away any time remotely soon.

It was only a short time ago that I was convinced streaming was the way it was going to go within a relatively short period of time (say ~10 years). But it seems the cable/sat companies (i.e. the distributors) saw the writing on the wall as well and said "screw that" and started buying the content (be it rights to broadcast and/or just buying the damn sports teams themselves - see MLSE/Rogers/Bell Media in Canada). It's to the point now where as long as the cable/sat cos own the sports content (by far the most prized/valuable possession) then the current, though flawed, model of the cable/sat cos isn't going away. And though I say it's flawed, I say so as a consumer. Of course, if you're the cable/sat cos then it's simply a cash cow, which is why they'll buy whatever they have to in order to maintain the status quo.

Originally Posted by wayner

For the most part I agree with you but I do think that we will continue to see a small shift towards other methods of distribution. But the problem with those other methods is that you don't really control the content that way that you do with Sage. I am not sure that mlb.tv lets you timeshift the way that your Sage system does and it may not let you keep the content for as long as you want, which you will rarely want to do with ports.

NHLCI online does a really good job of timeshifting, not sure about mlb.tv or NFL.

[drewg]

Originally Posted by Slugger

NFL: $205/season
And there's a penalty to the NFL for not supporting streaming on any tv connected devices (boxee/PS3/etc.)

At least in the US, you can get Sunday Ticket for $300 via the PSN. There is still some kind of tie-in with DirectTV, so I'm not sure if you can just buy it, or if you have to certify that you cannot access DirecTV or something odd..

Drew