"Sage" at CES?

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by darcilicious

Playback glitches? I guess I've been "lucky" because I don't get those myself...

ditto. Never really did. Stick to simple codec installs, and it all 'just works' for me, and really always has. Only way I can imagine it gets bad is if you've got a bunch of crap (codec packs, etc) that you don't need/want installed on the system. However, on any current hardware, sageclient in a bare win7 install, works great out of the box.

[Rob]

Since sage extenders are only available at ebay prices, I built a sandybridge in an effort to prove I could keep sage beyond extender failures. The answer is yes, but it was not just plug and play. Most things do "just work" and the menu navigation is extremely speedy.

But I still have some blu-ray playback troubles and subtitles have been a problem. I think I've heard ya'll say, that TMT will fix these, but that is more than just loading basic codes and it "just works". For me, extenders have been more reliable and less trouble. However, as I said, I know now that if I have an extender fail, I can make a client work.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by darcilicious

Playback glitches? I guess I've been "lucky" because I don't get those myself...

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

ditto. Never really did. Stick to simple codec installs, and it all 'just works' for me, and really always has. Only way I can imagine it gets bad is if you've got a bunch of crap (codec packs, etc) that you don't need/want installed on the system. However, on any current hardware, sageclient in a bare win7 install, works great out of the box.

Then don't try an extender. I always thought my playback was fine, and I debated many a time on AVS that PCs could play back video just as well as hardware decoders. I remember specifically debated with MyHD owners, they would always say PC playback wasn't quite "right" with respect to the fluidity of playback, and I would say it was fine if you did, well nearly exacly what Fuzzy said above.

So the HD100 came out and my original plan was for it to replace the MediaMVP I was using in the living room. I figured there was no way a "cheap" set top box could match an HTPC for playback. Then I hooked it up in my HT to see how it worked.

And well long story short, I've never gone back. The HD100 played things back with a smoothness (and I'm not talking Frame-Interpolation smoothness, I'm talking consistency of frame rate) that I never had with my HTPC.

And yes, I did exactly what you said, I installed Windows, updates, Sage, Drivers and (at the time) nVidia decoders, and that was it. There wasn't any codec-pack BS or anything. Yet still playback was just not as fluid as the HD100. Now by glitchy I'm not talking pauses, starts/stops, or anything like that, I suppose "jitter" is really the best term.

It was probably most obvious with my raw 480i (before everything on Dish was HD) Dish bitsream recordings, there was something with the way Dish coded those that a PC just couldn't handle right but the HD100 handled with ease.

Originally Posted by Rob

Since sage extenders are only available at ebay prices, I built a sandybridge in an effort to prove I could keep sage beyond extender failures. The answer is yes, but it was not just plug and play. Most things do "just work" and the menu navigation is extremely speedy.

But I still have some blu-ray playback troubles and subtitles have been a problem. I think I've heard ya'll say, that TMT will fix these, but that is more than just loading basic codes and it "just works". For me, extenders have been more reliable and less trouble. However, as I said, I know now that if I have an extender fail, I can make a client work.

And then there's this. Oh, and the many-many page thread on AVS about how nothing does 24fps quite right. Again something the extenders do easily.

[tmiranda]

The first extender I used, a MediaMVP, sold me. I'll never use a dedicated PC for an HTPC client if I can avoid it.

[routerunner]

On any PC the graphics card generates the video and the sound card the audio, unfortunately because they are completely unrelated to each other it is difficult to "genlock" it together in order to have a smooth playback without any frame drop. The perfect solution is to use a "scan converter" which takes the Video + Audio input from a PC source and "genlock" together the signals for a perfect smooth video playback. This is what we use in professional broadcast.

There are some software solution like the "ReClock" DirectShow filter for Windows, which "...provides a new reference clock that is locked to the video card hardware clock, in order to ensure that frames are played at the exact speed of what is expected by the video card vertical sync...", however this method doesn't work in all circumstances.

On extenders/hardware decoders the story is different because the playback is performed by dedicated hardware that have Video and Audio signals "genlocked", so for perfect smooth playback I'm afraid, extenders/hardware decoders are the way forward

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by stanger89

And then there's this. Oh, and the many-many page thread on AVS about how nothing does 24fps quite right. Again something the extenders do easily.

I look forward to seeing how my current setup handles 24fps playback later this month when I get my projector. That will be interesting to see how it works. I've got one of the supposed best GPU's for 24hz playback, so I hope it will work the way it's supposed to. As of now my client works perfectly (with the exception of BD sub's).

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by stanger89

... And well long story short, I've never gone back. The HD100 played things back with a smoothness (and I'm not talking Frame-Interpolation smoothness, I'm talking consistency of frame rate) that I never had with my HTPC. ...

That is why I left WMC 2005 and went with Sage. I always "Tinkered" with Sage but when the HD100 hit, that was it.

And now I am switching back at some point. Sad, very sad.

[setherd]

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/...et-big-update/

so is there something to this?

I hope so...... I really want to hear that Google has done something good with SageTV

[darcilicious]

According to my sources, one of the demonstrations will combine live TV listings with Netflix and DVR content. This will be the first time all of these services will be in one place. The idea is to put content first and the source second. Because if you want to watch The Walking Dead, do you really care if it is available live, on your DVR, or on Netflix? No. You don't. You just want to find it and let the search engine figure out where. This update will combine listings of any given show in one screen in clean categories all accessible and playable via a smartphone app.

(emphasis mine)

Replace "DVR" content with "local" content and you have what Boxee has been doing for years... (including integrating Netflix and other online content directly back in the day). (And if you get Boxee to "identify" your DVR content, then yeah, been there done that...)

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by darcilicious

Replace "DVR" content with "local" content and you have what Boxee has been doing for years... (including integrating Netflix and other online content directly back in the day). (And if you get Boxee to "identify" your DVR content, then yeah, been there done that...)

I thought that too. And, if I remember correctly, Boxee had to pull that feature from the Boxee Box. Apparently, Netflix didn't like the idea that users might not see that the content is coming from Netflix, rather than some other source.

I'd be surprised if Netflix changed its tune on that one. So, while Google may have slapped together a demo, I have a hard time imagining that will ever be productized unless Google thinks of a good way to showcase the source.

[mkanet]

That link suggests the next version of GoogleTV may be able to record live TV; and, DVR it as well. I'm not sure why else they would have it show liveTV listings and have DVR capabilities. If that's the case, Boxee could never do anything like that. All Boxee did was playback media files and video streams; which is why it was never able to replace SageTV. That link definitely sounds encouraging. However, I'm not going to get my hopes up.

Originally Posted by darcilicious

(emphasis mine)

Replace "DVR" content with "local" content and you have what Boxee has been doing for years... (including integrating Netflix content directly back in the day). (And if you get Boxee to "identify" your DVR content, then yeah, been there done that...)

[darcilicious]

You missed the point I was addressing. But that's okay

[emveepee]

Originally Posted by mkanet

Boxee could never do anything like that.

While not a true DVR it does have ATSC and clear QAM live tv http://www.boxee.tv/live with their own form of guide.

Martin

[flavius]

That 'DVR' mentioned in the article could be a Moto box, couldn't it? I'm not holding my breath.

[phelme]

Originally Posted by flavius

That 'DVR' mentioned in the article could be a Moto box, couldn't it? I'm not holding my breath.

Actually I think that's exactly it. The DVR's will not be generic, controlled from IR blasters and content sucked in via capture devices like we use, they'll be built to Google's spec and and have a protocol for integration like the Dish Network receivers. Only working with DVR's as opposed to say SiliconDust Primes takes the storage and tuner control hassle out of the picture for Google. The integration of SageTV could be part of this for overall listing and recording planning.

I fear for companies like SiliconDust and Ceton at this point if this is so and with WMC fading away. The hobbyist community is only so big and shrinking as I think young people have little interest in the work involved to do recording on one's own.

[Skybolt]

Originally Posted by phelme

... I fear for companies like SiliconDust and Ceton at this point if this is so and with WMC fading away. The hobbyist community is only so big and shrinking as I think young people have little interest in the work involved to do recording on one's own.

WMC is not really fadding away MS just found another way to charge for what use to be free. Granted they didn't come out with anything new either ...

EDIT: Tanken from AVS - Ceton thread.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2...windows-8.aspx

[wayner]

Originally Posted by phelme

The hobbyist community is only so big and shrinking as I think young people have little interest in the work involved to do recording on one's own.

The only thing helpful to us that young 'uns are interested in is recording their gaming. Apparently this is the purchase reason for a significant portion (most?) of HD-PVRs and even caused Hauppauge to release a gaming edition of the HD-PVR. That is a totally foreign concept to me that you would want to record your playing of a game.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by phelme

I fear for companies like SiliconDust and Ceton at this point if this is so and with WMC fading away. The hobbyist community is only so big and shrinking as I think young people have little interest in the work involved to do recording on one's own.

I think it's more a problem of content availability than lack of interest. When I was in college I started using SageTV, well because I had no need of a "TV" to watch TV so I started with just a tuner card, then started recording stuff because it was a convenient option, then got Sage because I wanted a better solution, and it grew from there.

At the time there wasn't Netflix, Hulu, or Amazon. Individual networks didn't stream their own content directly either. If I wanted to watch something I had to be there when it was on, or record it.

Today, depending on your tastes, probably 90%+ of what you might want to watch you can get whenever you want off one of the above services. Just as an example I used to have Sage set to not delete Top Gear because I wanted to have them available to watch whenever. Now every episode of Top Gear* is on Netflix and Amazon so I really don't need to save them in Sage. In fact I don't even need to record them in Sage in the first place because I can get them "live" (nearly) off Amazon, and actually I probably will because my new Cable provider doesn't have BBCA HD (just SD).

On top of that the DVRs from providers (especially Dish/DTV) are much better than they were a few years ago.

So I think the biggest problem for PC DVRs isn't "young people's interest" but the fact that there are so many viable or almost viable alternatives out there. If I didn't already have a SageTV/PC-based setup I would be taking a hard look at the whole house solutions from Dish/DTV rather than a PC-based solution.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Skybolt

WMC is not really fadding away MS just found another way to charge for what use to be free. Granted they didn't come out with anything new either ...

Perhaps you didn't see the Engadget story from a couple of days ago:

• With Win8 MS removed the capability to boot directly to WinMC
• MS has stopped hardware certification for tuners and remote controls

Two more nails in the coffin of WinMC

As was mentioned in another thread on another topic in this forum, this is getting like the Monty Python sketch "I'm not dead yet"

[wayner]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Today, depending on your tastes, probably 90%+ of what you might want to watch you can get whenever you want off one of the above services.

Not if you are a sports fan. And in many instances the content on those services is of a lower quality - not HD, not surround sound, etc. And then you need a box that can play back all of those services since most people don't want a PC hanging onto their TV.