updating software - should we worry?

[tvmaster2]

so, I just received (as I often do) a pop-up saying that Microsoft.NET Framework 4 had an update. Also get them for Java, etc etc.

Will there be a point where one of these will cause SageTV 7.19 to stop working, or exhibit bad behaviour? In other words, what third-party updates could cause the final version of Sage to barf?

[gplasky]

Maybe. Either do an image or do a system recovery to a date previous of the update. So far I have the latest .NET 4.0, java 6 bld 26 (haven't tested java 7 yet.) latest video drivers from ATI, latest HDHomerun drivers, latestd HD-PVR (edited the contrast and other settings in the .properties file) and all the latest MS patches. Nothing broken. (And I still have others running with the last updates that were done 2 years ago.)

When I look at Java 7 it could have updates that would break Sage, depending on how well it is backward compatible. (But it could have done a lot to improving Sage's performance if it lasted longer.)

This release includes new features such as small language changes for improved developer productivity, a new Filesystem API, support for asynchronous I/O, a new fork/join framework for multicore performance, improved support for dynamic and script languages, updates to security, internationalization and web standards and much more.

Gerry

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by gplasky

Maybe. Either do an image or do a system recovery to a date previous of the update. So far I have the latest .NET 4.0, java 6 bld 26 (haven't tested java 7 yet.) latest video drivers from ATI, latest HDHomerun drivers, latestd HD-PVR (edited the contrast and other settings in the .properties file) and all the latest MS patches. Nothing broken. (And I still have others running with the last updates that were done 2 years ago.)

When I look at Java 7 it could have updates that would break Sage, depending on how well it is backward compatible. (But it could have done a lot to improving Sage's performance if it lasted longer.)


Gerry

OK, good idea, I'll just make sure system recovery is active. The things we have to think about now ....

[pseudonym]

Decided to do something silly and remove JRE6, install JRE7. (Imaged my system first!!!)

Java 7 does indeed break SageTV. Service won't start. Running SageTV.exe (foreground mode) gives these two pop-up errors -- one after the other:

1. MsgBox Title: SageWin: SageTV.exe - System Error
The program can't start because MSVCR100.dll is missing from your computer. Try reinstalling the program to fix this problem.

2. MsgBox Title: Java Missing
Could not find jvm.dll
Please install Java Runtime Environment 1.4

I haven't started to look into this, I just now hit the error and came here to see if anyone else has done this. Apparently not... and I'm the first?

I will now go have a looksee at the Oracle tech site. Perhaps there are workarounds for software that uses the 'old style' java implementation.

To be continued...
--pseudonym

(SageTV 7.1.9 on Win7 Pro SP1 32-bit)

[gplasky]

The first error looks like a Visual C++ redistributable library error.

The 2nd error I would check to see what you have your java memory heap set at. Java 7 probably has a larger memory footprint and you no longer have the same size contiguous memory space that you had before so it won't run.

Gerry

[pseudonym]

Actually, both files exist in subdirectories under the JRE7 folder in C:\Program Files.

[pseudonym]

RE: JVM Heap. Mine's set to 512M - SageTV has never used more than 249M of that (according to System Information).

[pseudonym]

SOLVED (I think).

Found a post by a gamer who'd tried everything and finally got JRE7 working by simply copying MSVCR100.dll (from c:\program files\java\jre7\bin) into c:\windows directory.

I did the same and now the SageTV service starts, and SageTV.exe comes up in foreground. A load path problem perhaps?

A quick checkout shows nothing remiss with SageTV. I have a Favorites recording coming up in a bit, I'll soon know if that's working too.

I'd still like to find out what the *right* solution ought to be. But in the meantime this workaround appears to get Sage off the ground with JRE7...

[toricred]

Interestingly I installed Java 7 yesterday and the service started with it right away. Admittedly I didn't uninstall Java 6 yet.

[pseudonym]

You're still running on JRE6, as soon as you remove it you'll have my error, I think... I removed JRE6 and cleaned up registry, filesystem etc. before installing JRE7.

Another poster on the same forum where I found this workaround, did what you did -- they decided they were running JRE6.5 Some tasks were accessing JRE7 modules (compiles) while others were using the JRE6 modules. When they uninstalled JRE6 they got my error same as the fellow that posted the workaround.

If/when I find something 'official' instead of the workaround I'll post it here if it isn't already known by then.

Oh and SageTV recorded my scheduled shows right on time and the recordings look fine, are of the right length, etc. No funky messages in Sage's debug logs or W7 Event viewer. So far so good...

[najames]

Originally Posted by pseudonym

SOLVED (I think).

Found a post by a gamer who'd tried everything and finally got JRE7 working by simply copying MSVCR100.dll (from c:\program files\java\jre7\bin) into c:\windows directory.

Thanks for the post. I am installing SageTV 7 with JRE7 and was getting the same error, this seemed to work. I can at least continue to install now.

[david1234]

Doesnt' windows look for dll's along the system PATH? Wouldn't just adding jre7/bin to your system path solve the problem?

[MCE-Refugee]

Why remove Java 6 when installing Java 7? The various Java versions happily co-exist without interfering with one another.

[davephan]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

Will there be a point where one of these will cause SageTV 7.19 to stop working, or exhibit bad behaviour? In other words, what third-party updates could cause the final version of Sage to barf?

This is the reason you should already have a disaster recovery plan in place. Image your computer and test the recoveries with a 'test' recovery drive. Use an imaging product that can recover onto different hardware, that way you'll be protected if you system board fails.

Dave

[Savage1701]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

so, I just received (as I often do) a pop-up saying that Microsoft.NET Framework 4 had an update. Also get them for Java, etc etc.

Will there be a point where one of these will cause SageTV 7.19 to stop working, or exhibit bad behaviour? In other words, what third-party updates could cause the final version of Sage to barf?

Interesting you start this thread. I brought this up a couple months ago right after the sell-out, oh, I meant, buy-out of SageTV and was pretty much told to turn my Sage Server into an appliance, that is, never update it ever with anything.

I countered that that could work, to a point, unless something else on your system needs the updates you are denying it because you want to keep Sage going. Sort of the whole "rock and a hard place" thing. Java was one thing that concerned me. .NET updates also did, especially since some installers and programs need it. A security update that interacted with Windows validation also concerned me.

Although I do backup my Sage Server as a whole and the Sage folder to 2 different drives, I do also know that there will come a day when the MB will fail for some reason. As Davephan points out, there are potential driver issues there as well, or one must take their chances and buy a used board on an auction site, hope it works and still has life left in it, and hope it's not an OEM version of the original board (that's happened twice to me when retails were no longer available with my work computers). And I agree with anyone who says to snapshot a prior version of Sage or sandbox a test version of Sage when applying any real update.

I pretty much figure Sage will die "by a thousand cuts". The last people who manage to keep Sage going will, of course, be the most tech-savy who understand Java and such to a high degree. Since my abilities are more on the hardware and network side, I won't be the first, but I won't be that far behind.

[ewelin]

Just wanted to chime in and say thanks for posting about this and the solutions. I recently decided to move away from WHS and now have sage running on it's own Win7 box which was a fresh install and I could not figure out why I couldn't get the service controller to work. So glad I check in here.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by pseudonym

Found a post by a gamer who'd tried everything and finally got JRE7 working by simply copying MSVCR100.dll (from c:\program files\java\jre7\bin) into c:\windows directory.

I ran into this problem today and this workaround seemed to get Sage up and running again.

I wish I knew what happened, though.

[nyplayer]

Originally Posted by reggie14

I ran into this problem today and this workaround seemed to get Sage up and running again.

I wish I knew what happened, though.

To future proof your system Instead of copying files over Install the Microsoft Visual C++ 2010.

See this thread
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...42&postcount=1

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by nyplayer

To future proof your system Instead of copying files over Install the Microsoft Visual C++ 2010.

Thanks!

That was actually the first thing I tried when I saw the MSVCR100.dll error message. But, looking back, I think I installed the 64-bit version. That's probably why it didn't work.

[mtncrux]

One word of warning, if you copy the DLL over by hand, dont do what I did and update JAVA without checking to see if the DLL changed. SageTV wouldn't start and it took me forever to realize what was going on since I didn't remember copying this file in the first place.

Next time I will try installing the Microsoft visual C++ package as that seems like a better way to go.