"Backup" Forums

[speck55]

Originally Posted by shadymg

If there's already a plugin that will do it, we're built off of drupal so we could migrate that way, or starting fresh and just manually copying over would be a painful step. I guess the big question is does anyone here have access to the backend server information for these SageTV forums where we could access and extract the info?

I don't think they'd willingly give us a dump of the forum DB. Google owns it now, and their mission is to kill the product in a structured fashion as it exists today.

That being said, I could probably whip up something to scrape the messages from here, and dump it out to a MySQL DB, but that sort of traffic probably wouldn't be appreciated.

[Skirge01]

I'm the little birdie that whispered in Mike's ear about this possibility. It has been on my mind ever since G-Day. I've been a member of Missing Remote for a pretty long time now and a staff member for a couple of years. PluckyHD just recently joined the MR staff, as well. Having dealt with the people over there in the forums, via email, and on IM for quite some time, I think it would be a great fit. MR immediately stepped in with a temporary solution when TGB went down and then kept the forum open when the complaints started rolling in.

As far as SageTV forum content, MR cannot legally pull information over. It's owned by Google. However, I doubt they'd have any issue with copying guides/FAQs for plug-ins or anything developed and written by 3rd parties. 1:1 copies of entire threads would almost certainly be a no-no, however.

Additionally, putting together FAQs culled from forum posts would probably be okay. However, I think this needs to be done directly by the SageTV forum users, just so that MR's culpability is lessened. Clearly, MR will comply with any requests/demands made by Google regarding the content.

I suspect Opus or Narflex will chime in on this at some point if there are any concerns.

[speck55]

I wouldn't see any reason that it would be illegal to pull threads from a public forum, where the owning entity (Google) didn't create the content (so would exclude Narflex, etc. posts) and where Google claims no copyright. If they object, it would be best to abide by that, if for no other reason than out of respect. Am I missing something? The search engines regularly spider and mirror content that doesn't require login, and so do things like The Internet Archive (a.k.a. Wayback)...

[shadymg]

i agree with george, it's probably best that if we need any original content from here to be preserved, that the original poster re-post over on our forums. In addition to SageTV's rights on the content, we have to remember that the users themselves have a right to their posts as well.

So to get started quickly, we can create the forums fairly easily, but how many should we start off with? Maybe keep them broad at first--SageTV Software, HD300, Customizations & Add-Ins, Hardware

Thoughts? Too few?

[speck55]

Originally Posted by shadymg

i agree with george, it's probably best that if we need any original content from here to be preserved, that the original poster re-post over on our forums. In addition to SageTV's rights on the content, we have to remember that the users themselves have a right to their posts as well.

So to get started quickly, we can create the forums fairly easily, but how many should we start off with? Maybe keep them broad at first--SageTV Software, HD300, Customizations & Add-Ins, Hardware

Thoughts? Too few?

There are a couple of veins of STV software - namely, Windows, Mac, and Linux/OEM, which I think should be sub forums with the STV software main forum only having important stickies and then links to the per-OS sub forums. Anyone else?

So:
STV Software
Subforum Windows
Subforum MacOS
Subforum Linux/OEM
??Subforum Pre-7.0 Versions??
Subforum Placeshifter
Subforum Other

Hardware,
then Subforum Extenders, beneath that HD-100, HD-200, HD-300,
then Subforum Other, which would include the USB-UIRT, etc.

General Discussions
probably a sub forum just for us crazies that feel the need to rant some more
other sub forums - can anyone think of any here?

Customizations could fall underneath the Per-OS STV Software, or could be a separate forum with sub forums for the big ones (Diamond, Phoenix, etc.). I'm curious what others think here.

My $0.02.
That's what I can come up with thus far.

[Skirge01]

I quickly looked over the activity in a bunch of the forums and I think we really only need the following forums on MR:

1. SageTV Software
2. SageTV Extenders
3. SageTV Studio
4. SageTV v6 Customizations
5. SageTV v7 Customizations

We may need separate sub forums for some of the major/popular v7 customizations, though, just like we have here. But, I suggest that we don't go that far unless a dev for one of the major customizations requests one. The intent here is not to force people to leave these forums (not that we could). If people CHOOSE to begin migrating important information over, they're more than welcome to (and I do think it's a good idea). Likewise, if a dev CHOOSES to move support over to MR, that's THEIR choice.

[shadymg]

ok, we'll work on that immediately and i'll post when ready. I agree with george, we can start with 5 and then as needed we can always expand.

Also, we're working on some improvements to our forum as well that we're almost done with, so you guys will benefit from that.

any other thoughts/suggestions/ideas?

[crusing]

I too have been worried about the forum just disappearing one day. The problem is you can't have an "official" unofficial forum. Hopefully one will be created that will have enough critical mass to survive. Missing Remote is a great site, so I think that could have some traction. I personally will go wherever the plugin authors end up. Once I had my system up and running the forum became a way to keep an eye on the development projects. I also try and help people when I am here, but the reason I visit is to see what is being coded. Where the devs go, the people will follow.

[flavius]

I voted that I might follow the crowd should this site get shut down which I don't believe it will anytime soon.

You are are probably aware that there's a sizable group of people on Google+, initiated by Brent who sent out lots of invites. I'm maintaining a Sage circle there, there's very little talk about Sage specifically, though (at least as far as I can see).

Has anybody tried to copy the site with a tool like HTTrack? I used to play with those things a bit way back when browsing in offline mode was not uncommon, but that was a loong time ago.

[hugenbdd]

Originally Posted by flavius

I voted that I might follow the crowd should this site get shut down which I don't believe it will anytime soon.

You are are probably aware that there's a sizable group of people on Google+, initiated by Brent who sent out lots of invites. I'm maintaining a Sage circle there, there's very little talk about Sage specifically, though (at least as far as I can see).

Has anybody tried to copy the site with a tool like HTTrack? I used to play with those things a bit way back when browsing in offline mode was not uncommon, but that was a loong time ago.

HTTrack looks useful. It does go against the TOS. Probably why way back machine doesn't have a recent copy of the forum. If it were to be used, I would hope people split the sections up don't hammer the server. i.e. another reason to get banned and have google shut down the forums.

Dave

[ThePaladinTech]

Originally Posted by flavius

I voted that I might follow the crowd should this site get shut down which I don't believe it will anytime soon.

You are are probably aware that there's a sizable group of people on Google+, initiated by Brent who sent out lots of invites. I'm maintaining a Sage circle there, there's very little talk about Sage specifically, though (at least as far as I can see).

Has anybody tried to copy the site with a tool like HTTrack? I used to play with those things a bit way back when browsing in offline mode was not uncommon, but that was a loong time ago.

I am in that group as well, I think there is not much talk about sage on there IMHO because it's just not the right method, we need a forum. For the alternative I had originally mentioned geektonic. but missingremote would be fantastic as well. I think there would need to be a hardware forum as well (to discuss hardware specific issues with SageTV) or no?

[Skirge01]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but what are people expecting to get from G+ that they can't get from right here on the forums? Not all that long ago, I said that I joined G+ (my 1st social networking foray) because I figured like-minded people might be posting about various things--not just SageTV--I might be interested in. If I want only SageTV talk, I can come here.

Originally Posted by ThePaladinTech

I am in that group as well, I think there is not much talk about sage on there IMHO because it's just not the right method, we need a forum.

But, we already do. You used it to post that very statement.

For the alternative I had originally mentioned geektonic. but missingremote would be fantastic as well. I think there would need to be a hardware forum as well (to discuss hardware specific issues with SageTV) or no?

You mean something besides the SageTV Extenders forums? If you're talking HD-PVRs, Colossus, or any other tuner or capture card, then I don't know that we need a dedicated forum just for hardware issues experienced while using SageTV. If it's a hardware issue, then wouldn't the general HTPC forum suffice? If it's a SageTV setup issue, then the SageTV Software forum would be the right place, wouldn't it?

I say we set it up and see how things go. If people start flocking to MR and it becomes difficult to find things, we can certainly add more forums. Then again, "search" should be people's first stop anyway.

[speck55]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

I don't want to hijack the thread, but what are people expecting to get from G+ that they can't get from right here on the forums? Not all that long ago, I said that I joined G+ (my 1st social networking foray) because I figured like-minded people might be posting about various things--not just SageTV--I might be interested in. If I want only SageTV talk, I can come here.



But, we already do. You used it to post that very statement.



You mean something besides the SageTV Extenders forums? If you're talking HD-PVRs, Colossus, or any other tuner or capture card, then I don't know that we need a dedicated forum just for hardware issues experienced while using SageTV. If it's a hardware issue, then wouldn't the general HTPC forum suffice? If it's a SageTV setup issue, then the SageTV Software forum would be the right place, wouldn't it?

I say we set it up and see how things go. If people start flocking to MR and it becomes difficult to find things, we can certainly add more forums. Then again, "search" should be people's first stop anyway.

G+ is not really a forum. It's another of Google's projects to try and monetize off of the combination of the Google name, Google single sign on, and the Facebook/LinkedIn/etc. concept.

My reasoning for opening this thread is that Google will probably not host these forums forever. They clearly have an end-game that doesn't involve us "tinkerers" unless we "tinker" for a major TV or Blu Ray Player manufacture, on the payroll.

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by speck55

G+ is not really a forum. It's another of Google's projects to try and monetize off of the combination of the Google name, Google single sign on, and the Facebook/LinkedIn/etc. concept.

I'm with you there. In fact, I think you missed what I was replying to. Others have stated that people from this forum on G+ aren't posting about SageTV. I was asking what they were expecting from G+, given that we have these forums to "officially" talk about SageTV.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by speck55

I don't think they'd willingly give us a dump of the forum DB. Google owns it now, and their mission is to kill the product in a structured fashion as it exists today.

That being said, I could probably whip up something to scrape the messages from here, and dump it out to a MySQL DB, but that sort of traffic probably wouldn't be appreciated.

I'd appreciate anything that supports long-term support. When Fiat bought Chrysler, did they pull all they Chilton guides off the racks? These software/hardware companies have had it too easy for too long regarding obsoleting a product AND apparently having govt. support as they do it.

[pdessart]

I, too, have been thinking that the GoogSage forum is vulnerable. I also feel that an existing forum (e.g. Missing Remote, cocoontech, etc.) is the way to go. I do want to point out that even then there's no guarantee that the new forum wouldn't someday be bought (and the more content beyond just SageTV, the more attractive to a potential buyer).

Whatever alternative surfaces, I'll be there day one.

Peter

[speck55]

Originally Posted by pdessart

I, too, have been thinking that the GoogSage forum is vulnerable. I also feel that an existing forum (e.g. Missing Remote, cocoontech, etc.) is the way to go. I do want to point out that even then there's no guarantee that the new forum wouldn't someday be bought (and the more content beyond just SageTV, the more attractive to a potential buyer).

Whatever alternative surfaces, I'll be there day one.

Peter

That's not a bad point - there have been plenty of blog/forum sites bought and integrated into various "networks" or "affiliated networks of sites". Hrmmmm.... have to ponder.

[speck55]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

I'd appreciate anything that supports long-term support. When Fiat bought Chrysler, did they pull all they Chilton guides off the racks? These software/hardware companies have had it too easy for too long regarding obsoleting a product AND apparently having govt. support as they do it.

+1

Couldn't have said it better myself. But not only did they not pull all the Chilton Guides, they pulled all the Haynes manuals, and all OEM and aftermarket parts, and threatened action against those that sold their now-Renault-type vehicles. (Oh, wait, you can probably still get parts for Renaults). You get my drift.

I could see this happening if the people behind it just weren't making a living anymore from it, but they still had control of how we got treated by being on the other side of that negotiating table.

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by speck55

+1

Couldn't have said it better myself. But not only did they not pull all the Chilton Guides, they pulled all the Haynes manuals, and all OEM and aftermarket parts, and threatened action against those that sold their now-Renault-type vehicles. (Oh, wait, you can probably still get parts for Renaults). You get my drift.

I could see this happening if the people behind it just weren't making a living anymore from it, but they still had control of how we got treated by being on the other side of that negotiating table.

Business behavior - sometimes good, sometimes bad.
More government regulation - almost always bad.

I want less (a lot less) regulation. Consumers have a way of rewarding well behaving companies and punishing ill behaved companies.

[speck55]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

Business behavior - sometimes good, sometimes bad.
More government regulation - almost always bad.

I want less (a lot less) regulation. Consumers have a way of rewarding well behaving companies and punishing ill behaved companies.

But, but, our government knows what's right for us don't they? It's not like they led us into another aftershock recession by playing chicken with the monstrous debt train, or anything. This is gonna make my mortgage interest rate that's fixed for the next 15 years look like a 0% loan on a new car.