"Backup" Forums

[speck55]

I'm thinking of registering a domain and setting up a forum for use by those still using/developing plugins (god bless you who extend functionality and now extend lifetime) in case Google no longer wants to maintain these forums, or if people just want another place to go for whatever reason, but I imagine the former reason very much moreso than the latter.

Trying to gauge interest here. Let me know your thoughts. I've got some decent server to spare, and figured it'd be making use of something I'm not using, but paid for nonetheless.

My promise would be that I would keep it ad-free for as long as it doesn't get out of control on bandwidth and server resources, (it's a 6-core box, though, so..). I'd also need help moderating etc. if these forums went down and there was an explosion of new activity/users.

So there it is: I'm willing to fork out the $10 or so for the domain, host the deal, pay for whatever forum software (I see vBulletin is about $200), set up a Wiki, and possibly host an alternate plugin mirror, (all of this pending any objection by Sage/Google) and contribute what I can. I just need to get a handle on if there are enough people to help where this would actually be, well, a help.

[PhilH]

I would use a new forum as soon as it was available. That way when these do go down (if they do) the new forum will already be populated with good info.

Phil

P.S. Years ago I used to lease several unmanaged servers from Rack Shack. I did updates to the server software as well as host several chat rooms & message boards. I would be more than willing to help moderate if you needed the help.

[IVB]

Electron from cocoontech.com already volunteered to host forums in that case, he hosts them for motorola premise (beyond the regular Home Automation stuff). There would be value in using a site that already exists for other things.

[davephan]

Originally Posted by PhilH

I would use a new forum as soon as it was available. That way when these do go down (if they do) the new forum will already be populated with good info.

Phil

P.S. Years ago I used to lease several unmanaged servers from Rack Shack. I did updates to the server software as well as host several chat rooms & message boards. I would be more than willing to help moderate if you needed the help.

Someone should start collecting e-mail addresses right away so that people can be notified after the SageTV closes (if it closes).

Dave

[IVB]

Originally Posted by davephan

Someone should start collecting e-mail addresses right away so that people can be notified after the SageTV closes (if it closes).

Dave

or just have people join the unofficial google group (http://groups.google.com/group/unofficial-sagetv-forum) , the new location can be posted there.

[davephan]

I think that would be a bad move to go from a shutdown forum from Google to another forum controlled by Google. It would be better to go to a forum that is not controlled by Google.

Dave

[speck55]

Originally Posted by IVB

or just have people join the unofficial google group (http://groups.google.com/group/unofficial-sagetv-forum) , the new location can be posted there.

That's what we need. Another product at the mercy of Google. I, for one, think not.

[GKusnick]

In the same vein, perhaps we should try to avoid a situation in which control of the forums lies with a single user. So a server in someone's basement may not be the best plan. What happens if that person gets sick, or loses interest, or their house gets hit by lightning, or any number of other scenarios?

Ideally you'd want to use cloud-based server space from some commercial provider, with a team of admins representing a cross-section of the community, so there's no single point of vulnerability. If someone gets bored and drops out, you can recruit someone else to replace them and maintain continuity.

Personally I don't have a problem with Google Groups, but I understand if people don't want to do that. I'm just not sure that putting it all in the hands of one disgruntled user is any better.

[IVB]

Originally Posted by davephan

I think that would be a bad move to go from a shutdown forum from Google to another forum controlled by Google. It would be better to go to a forum that is not controlled by Google.

Dave

you misunderstand my intent - what i'm saying is to NOT harvest emails, rather use that to disseminate info. IE, I don't want my email address floating out there, I just switched it due to too much spam. But you can tell me the new location of the forums on the google group.

As I posted before, my advise is to not spend time or money building a new domain identity since cocoontech.com has already offered to host it for free, and they already have other HA/HT forums.

[voorhees]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

In the same vein, perhaps we should try to avoid a situation in which control of the forums lies with a single user. So a server in someone's basement may not be the best plan. What happens if that person gets sick, or loses interest, or their house gets hit by lightning, or any number of other scenarios?

Ideally you'd want to use cloud-based server space from some commercial provider, with a team of admins representing a cross-section of the community, so there's no single point of vulnerability. If someone gets bored and drops out, you can recruit someone else to replace them and maintain continuity.

Personally I don't have a problem with Google Groups, but I understand if people don't want to do that. I'm just not sure that putting it all in the hands of one disgruntled user is any better.

For what it is worth, I have a paid web service at Lunarpages that I have used for several years for a family web site. As part of the plan it has several software packages that can be installed and run on the service. It has Simple Machines Forum (SMF) available to install and use. If needed, I would be willing to setup a forum on my web service at Lunarpages. This does not hit all of your points GKusnick (of which I agree with) but it gets part way there. I would just need to get an additional domain (I am thinking my family web site domain may not be a good one to use). Just throwing my hat in the ring in case it is needed. Just let me know.

[speck55]

Originally Posted by GKusnick

In the same vein, perhaps we should try to avoid a situation in which control of the forums lies with a single user. So a server in someone's basement may not be the best plan. What happens if that person gets sick, or loses interest, or their house gets hit by lightning, or any number of other scenarios?

Ideally you'd want to use cloud-based server space from some commercial provider, with a team of admins representing a cross-section of the community, so there's no single point of vulnerability. If someone gets bored and drops out, you can recruit someone else to replace them and maintain continuity.

Personally I don't have a problem with Google Groups, but I understand if people don't want to do that. I'm just not sure that putting it all in the hands of one disgruntled user is any better.

If ThePlanet/SoftLayer is "someone's basement", then where do you suggest? Perhaps the CIA has some free rack units available? Please.

In any event, the domain and hosting fees are paid by someone, at the end of the day.

I wasn't indicating that the moderation/administration lie in "one disgruntled user's hands" (I'm going to skip the words I really want to toss back at you for that line).

The point of this is to provide something that is outside Google's decision-making process, not to horde control.

So thanks for the quip, I really appreciate the "one disgruntled user" and "basement" comments especially. (By the way, there're an LOAD of "disgruntled users", and you use that language like anyone that's pissed is an unstable postal employee.)

It's people like you that make people like me that toss out an idea to help the community wonder why I opened my mouth in the first place.

To be clear, I would list at least one additional party on the domain, and have them have full access to the box.

[speck55]

Originally Posted by voorhees

For what it is worth, I have a paid web service at Lunarpages that I have used for several years for a family web site. As part of the plan it has several software packages that can be installed and run on the service. It has Simple Machines Forum (SMF) available to install and use. If needed, I would be willing to setup a forum on my web service at Lunarpages. This does not hit all of your points GKusnick (of which I agree with) but it gets part way there. I would just need to get an additional domain (I am thinking my family web site domain may not be a good one to use). Just throwing my hat in the ring in case it is needed. Just let me know.

SMF is a little miserable features-wise, and this definitely needs to be a hand-installed and customized forum software.

So you offering space on a shared server at a datacenter and offering a Fantastico-provided script-in-a-box, versus me offering space on a sliced (ESX) dedicated server at a datacenter, and offering to buy VBulletin -- difference here is what?

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by speck55

To be clear, I would list at least one additional party on the domain, and have them have full access to the box.

Originally Posted by speck55

...versus me offering space on a sliced (ESX) dedicated server at a datacenter...

This information was not in your original post. I'll take your word for it that that's what you intended to say, but what you actually said was that you have a server that could be used for this purpose. I took that to mean a server of your own, under your physical control. In my opinion (you did ask for opinions) that's not an optimal situation.

Sorry if you took "disgruntled" personally; frankly it seemed to me to be a more polite way of phrasing it than "pissed" or "fed up", which apparently you're OK with. But I'll withdraw the remark if it will help get things back on track. (Note that I did not say or imply "unstable" or "postal"; those are your words.)

[drjtech]

I would take advantage of an alternate fourm as soon as it was available. Of course, I would also continue using the Official forum as long as possible.

I went through a similar experience when Intervocative Software was bought out by one of the original developers and became Invelos Software. If you used DVD Profiler back in 2007 you know there was a lot of discussion and concern similar to what we are seeing now with SageTV.

-drjtech

[samgreco]

Getting hosting and setting up a forum is, in itself, easy. No matter where it is setup, but ultimately it is in one person's hand, as they would need to pay the bills.

vBulletin is great and it's nice that you (speck55) are willing to pay for it. But honestly, phpBB and SMF would be fine and free. Yes the feature sets aren't as good but they function for what they are intended just fine.

Cocoontech willing to host is great. They have supported the community now for many years. As long as they are willing to give the space and allow it to expand to the kind of structure it is now, I see no problem with it. Great folks.

I am sure there are a few people on this forum now that have hosting of one sort or another. I have a VPS at WiredTree in their Chicago datacenter. I host sites for myself and about 20 customers. I would consider hosting the site. But whoever does would probably need to have ads to help defray the costs. And help to administer.

And speck55, I think you took stuff way too personally. Not everyone knows the way everything works.

BTW, sagetvforums.com is currently available.....

[voorhees]

Originally Posted by speck55

It's people like you that make people like me that toss out an idea to help the community wonder why I opened my mouth in the first place.

Originally Posted by speck55

...versus me offering space on a sliced (ESX) dedicated server at a datacenter, and offering to buy VBulletin -- difference here is what?

I love this. You state that you wonder why people make comments about your ideas to help the community, then you do the same to others. Hey, I was just offering. If no one wants to take me up on it because there is a better solution, no problem. I just want whatever is best for the community. But like you, I was offering a solution to help the community. Since you provided no detail originally, it was not clear what you were offering. Now we know what you are offering.

[speck55]

Originally Posted by voorhees

I love this. You state that you wonder why people make comments about your ideas to help the community, then you do the same to others. Hey, I was just offering. If no one wants to take me up on it because there is a better solution, no problem. I just want whatever is best for the community. But like you, I was offering a solution to help the community. Since you provided no detail originally, it was not clear what you were offering. Now we know what you are offering.

The first part wasn't directed at you, voorhees. The second part was more of a rhetorical question than anything -- not an attack on you. I'm sorry if you took it that way.

I guess the only thing I can say to the other gentleman regarding me not providing the details that I have a dedicated server that I divy up via ESX hosted at a given datacenter, is that rather than rush to assume things like "basement" and that no one else would be involved (which would be insane both from a continuity standpoint and from a workload standpoint -- a community is a community because there are many people involved in its success at various levels from users to mods to admins), would have been to maybe ask, "Hey, is this something you are hanging off of a DSL/Cable connection, or is it in a datacenter? How would the moderation/administration be handled?".

The initial message didn't include all these details, because as it states, I was at that point throwing it out there as a general question to gauge interest, and of course the "nuts and bolts" of the setup are details that would obviously come up during the next steps.

[shadymg]

Hi Guys, Mike Garcen here from MissingRemote.com. If you guys are interested we'd be more than happy to host a group of SageTV forums over there. Of course MissingRemote is more than just sageTV though, so that would be the con. But on the plus, you know it's a site/forum that's been around for years and is going nowhere.

If the people are behind it, I can talk to mikinho and babgvant to make sure I'm not getting us in over our head, but seeing as it's just forum traffic it really shouldn't be a problem at all.

Let me know. If anyone wants to contact me directly, mike (at) missingremote.com

[speck55]

Originally Posted by shadymg

Hi Guys, Mike Garcen here from MissingRemote.com. If you guys are interested we'd be more than happy to host a group of SageTV forums over there. Of course MissingRemote is more than just sageTV though, so that would be the con. But on the plus, you know it's a site/forum that's been around for years and is going nowhere.

If the people are behind it, I can talk to mikinho and babgvant to make sure I'm not getting us in over our head, but seeing as it's just forum traffic it really shouldn't be a problem at all.

Let me know. If anyone wants to contact me directly, mike (at) missingremote.com

Hi, Mike - I'm not a member over at MissingRemote, but have been lurking for years. Great site full of useful info that has saved me countless hours of .

Guys, perhaps this is a good answer, as the theme of the site is in-line with the product, is not in any way controlled by Google, has been in place for many years, and of course there may be other closely-related areas of expertise among their users that we could benefit from?

The question then becomes how do we get the pertinent info from these forums (HOWTO/FAQ-type stuff) over there? Or do we just start fresh?

[shadymg]

Originally Posted by speck55

The question then becomes how do we get the pertinent info from these forums (HOWTO/FAQ-type stuff) over there? Or do we just start fresh?

If there's already a plugin that will do it, we're built off of drupal so we could migrate that way, or starting fresh and just manually copying over would be a painful step. I guess the big question is does anyone here have access to the backend server information for these SageTV forums where we could access and extract the info?