HDHomeRun (HDHR) Prime + SageDCT

[HuMan321]

Been reading FAQ posts and it talks of scn file which I do not remember ever having. Should I have them? I am thinking no per
HDHR OTA (Digital Antenna) tuner setup instructions

As of v20090411, SiliconDust has updated their software to no longer create .scn files when using an HDHR tuner in Digital Antenna mode. Now, you should set up an antenna-based HDHR tuner solely in SageTV, doing the full channel scan in SageTV's Channel Setup menu. Any needed channel/station remapping should be done as mentioned in the "Remapping Stations for EPG data using ATSC or QAM Digital Tuners" section of the SageTV PDF manual's coverage of the Channel Setup menu, found near p. 164.

Edit

To clarify my issue - I can see and select the channels in Sage that are missing from the guide 6-1, 7-1, etc. I have them selected and they do not show up in the guide. I used the xml guide and picked my zipcode digital broadcast. I cannot figure what I am doing wrong.

Additional Detail
Nightly Business Report just started recording on one of the HDHR tuners that does not show this channel as 4-1 in the guide. However on channel 474 is PBS digital and this is where the cable company digital local channels are in the guide. I have given this 2 minutes of thought and do not think I will have issues if the HDHR 2 tuners can record from what I thought was a local HD channel that was for the cable HD Prime only.
Clear as mud? Sorry, this has me frazzled, but it may be ok, just not what I was expecting from the guide.

Example of what I thought the guide would look like was say Big Bang Theory was coming on. It would normally be channel 2-1 (CBS) on OTA and on 460 on the cable feed. It appears it is only going to list it once and on the cable feed channel which again I don't see as an operation issue, just strange and not what I expected. Go figure.

[sflamm]

Install the HDHR software on another machine, then use the preview there...

You want to make sure the HDHR can see those channels fine before you debug the SageTV server as the source of the issue...

[sflamm]

If it is an HDHR (not prime) then it does need a .scn file.. that is automatically generated by the HDHR after scanning the channels and configuring the mapping. But you need to configure the channel map in the HDHR UI interface beforehand...or else SageTV will have it wrong...

But maybe that has changed since I last used my HDHR... only use prime now...

[sflamm]

this is where the cable company digital local channels are in the guide.

You need to create 2 different guide setups ... one for OTA and one for cable.

[HuMan321]

Originally Posted by sflamm

You need to create 2 different guide setups ... one for OTA and one for cable.

Ok - went completely through again and deleted all 5 tuners, property references, etc.

HD Homerun - 2 tuners from antenna
HD Homerun Prime - 3 tuners from cable company

Locals on antenna are 2-1, 4-1, 6-1, 7-1, 9-1, 12-1
HD locals on Cable are 455,460,465, 470, 475, 487.

I ran a channel scan on both HD Homerun tuners and the antenna locals are in the guide.
I ran a channel scan on one of the Prime tuners, modified the channels ensuring the HD locals were selected (455,460,465, 470, 475, 487) and they do not show up in the guide, but do show up as selected in the Sage tuner channel setup.

There is no way Prime can record locals because the local channels are not listed in the guide. It sure seems like something to do with the stations being the same with the same content, but again the tuners can only see their batch whether through antenna or cable.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

[sflamm]

Not clear -- are you setting up 2 guides?

You should have two completely separate tuner guides. One for the HDHR and one for the HDHR prime. Each one will pick the channels only for the corresponding tuner.

The SageTV guide will be a composite of the two separate tuner guides.
The SageTV guide uses the call sign to distinguish tuning... not the channel number (i.e. each tuner can tune the same call sign on different channel numbers)

When recording, SageTV will always pick the highest quality source tuner available (unavailable if already recording something else)... which means HD will always be recorded before SD.

[sflamm]

The channel number is the logical channel number used by the channel guide source (i.e. zap2it) for the area you selected. The physical channel is the channel the hardware tunes that corresponds to the logical number.

[HuMan321]

Originally Posted by sflamm

Not clear -- are you setting up 2 guides?

You should have two completely separate tuner guides. One for the HDHR and one for the HDHR prime. Each one will pick the channels only for the corresponding tuner.

The SageTV guide will be a composite of the two separate tuner guides.
The SageTV guide uses the call sign to distinguish tuning... not the channel number (i.e. each tuner can tune the same call sign on different channel numbers)

When recording, SageTV will always pick the highest quality source tuner available (unavailable if already recording something else)... which means HD will always be recorded before SD.

I ran a scan on each tuner HD Homerun, HD Prime separate and then modified the channel list to suit on each tuner. Is that setting up 2 guides? (It shows like both guides are combined with the only exception being of the cable HD channels in the 400 range

I just tried to record 5 local stations and it appeared to work except 2 of the Prime tuners kept having errors even when I stopped the recording and tried another channel.

I can view the channels with the Prime tuners in HDHomerun config GUI that are having issues so I am not sure why 2 of the 3 Prime tuners keep having errors while recording

[Tiki]

Originally Posted by HuMan321

Ok - went completely through again and deleted all 5 tuners, property references, etc.

HD Homerun - 2 tuners from antenna
HD Homerun Prime - 3 tuners from cable company

Locals on antenna are 2-1, 4-1, 6-1, 7-1, 9-1, 12-1
HD locals on Cable are 455,460,465, 470, 475, 487.

I ran a channel scan on both HD Homerun tuners and the antenna locals are in the guide.
I ran a channel scan on one of the Prime tuners, modified the channels ensuring the HD locals were selected (455,460,465, 470, 475, 487) and they do not show up in the guide, but do show up as selected in the Sage tuner channel setup.

There is no way Prime can record locals because the local channels are not listed in the guide. It sure seems like something to do with the stations being the same with the same content, but again the tuners can only see their batch whether through antenna or cable.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

I'm pretty sure that if you have two tuners that have the same stations (same station IDs), but show them on different channels, Sage will only show one of them in the program guide.

Example:

• Tuner 1 gets NBC on channel "4"
• Tuner 2 gets NBC on channel "104"
• Both of these "NBC"s have the same station ID code.
• Sage will just pick one - so you may only see channel "4" in the guide.
• If you click on channel 4 in the guide, Sage might choose to record channel 4 from tuner 1 or channel 104 from tuner 2 (which one it chooses depends on tuner merit and whatever else Sage has has baked into its algorithm).
• To avoid confusion, you may choose to re-map one of these channels (maybe change tuner 2 so that the logical channel is "4", but the physical channel is still 104 or whatever).

I think what you are describing is normal behavior. It may be a little confusing.

[HuMan321]

Originally Posted by Tiki

I'm pretty sure that if you have two tuners that have the same stations (same station IDs), but show them on different channels, Sage will only show one of them in the program guide.

Example:

• Tuner 1 gets NBC on channel "4"
• Tuner 2 gets NBC on channel "104"
• Both of these "NBC"s have the same station ID code.
• Sage will just pick one - so you may only see channel "4" in the guide.
• If you click on channel 4 in the guide, Sage might choose to record channel 4 from tuner 1 or channel 104 from tuner 2 (which one it chooses depends on tuner merit and whatever else Sage has has baked into its algorithm).
• To avoid confusion, you may choose to re-map one of these channels (maybe change tuner 2 so that the logical channel is "4", but the physical channel is still 104 or whatever).

I think what you are describing is normal behavior. It may be a little confusing.

This is exactly what I am seeing and I believe it is working as I made all 5 tuners record locals and they all tried to. Both HD Homerun tuners recorded perfectly and 1 of the Prime tuners did as well.
2 of the Prime tuners had recording error on the channel so I stopped recording one at a time and then tried to have it record on a different channel. I tried this 3 times each with different channels and these same 2 Prime tuners are not working.

[sflamm]

I ran a scan on each tuner HD Homerun, HD Prime separate and then modified the channel list to suit on each tuner. Is that setting up 2 guides? (It shows like both guides are combined with the only exception being of the cable HD channels in the 400 range

That is correct.

Sage will just pick one - so you may only see channel "4" in the guide.
If you click on channel 4 in the guide, Sage might choose to record channel 4 from tuner 1 or channel 104 from tuner 2 (which one it chooses depends on tuner merit and whatever else Sage has has baked into its algorithm).

Also correct. But SageTV picks based on quality first and then merit.
So HD and then SD. If more than one HD, then the one with the highest merit first.

2 of the Prime tuners had recording error on the channel so I stopped recording one at a time and then tried to have it record on a different channel. I tried this 3 times each with different channels and these same 2 Prime tuners are not working.

Sounds like your channel configuration is correct - and the error is with the Prime tuners that are not working.

Things to check:

1. Each of the Prime tuner ports is correct?
2. Can you tune with the Silcondust QuickTV app works for those tuners?

I'd verify the tuners are working correctly before debugging the interaction with SageTv.

[sflamm]

I ran a scan on each tuner HD Homerun, HD Prime separate and then modified the channel list to suit on each tuner. Is that setting up 2 guides? (It shows like both guides are combined with the only exception being of the cable HD channels in the 400 range

Just to double check - when setting up a tuner you can a) share an existing guide b) copy an existing guide (to customize) c) use a new guide.

The tuners for the HDHR should be sharing the same guide.
And the tuners for the HDHR Prime should be sharing the same guide (different from the HDHR).

[HuMan321]

Originally Posted by sflamm

Just to double check - when setting up a tuner you can a) share an existing guide b) copy an existing guide (to customize) c) use a new guide.

The tuners for the HDHR should be sharing the same guide.
And the tuners for the HDHR Prime should be sharing the same guide (different from the HDHR).

Thanks for all your help. It appears to be working now and I may have had an older version of SageDCT that was causing the tuner issues. I did setup each tuner separately and the Sage guide shows channels from each except for the locals that would have been duplicates. I selected 5 different recordings on ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX, PBS which all showed in the guide as 2-1, 4-1, etc HD Homerun guide fashion and both tuners started recording. Even though I selected to record CBS on 2-1 the Prime tuner grabbed it and recorded channel 460 cable (CBS) so I think all is working great.
Thanks again for your help before the fall TV season!!!

[sflamm]

Btw - I redid some setting last weekend and found that with SageDCT 2.7.2 I could not get the preview function to work in SageTV (even though everything works)

I am using the new FFmpeg setting.

Not sure if true in general or not?

[HuMan321]

Originally Posted by sflamm

That is correct.



Also correct. But SageTV picks based on quality first and then merit.
So HD and then SD. If more than one HD, then the one with the highest merit first.



Sounds like your channel configuration is correct - and the error is with the Prime tuners that are not working.

Things to check:

1. Each of the Prime tuner ports is correct?
2. Can you tune with the Silcondust QuickTV app works for those tuners?

I'd verify the tuners are working correctly before debugging the interaction with SageTv.

Update:

Back from a 5 day business trip. I thought I had all 5 tuners (2 HD Homerun, 3 HD Prime) working properly before leaving and loaded the recording schedule up for the new TV season. Upon returning I found many errors of recordings and basically all that tried to record on one of the Prime tuners threw errors and did not record. I had a few recordings successful and they were on one of the HD Homerun tuners.

Today I have prioritized the HD Homerun tuners (encoder_merit) so at least I can get 2 recordings together while troubleshooting.

I can view all the TV channels through HD Homerun config GUI and HD Homerun Quick TV on my main PC which is the one I log into my Sage server which runs on WHS 2003 OS.

I have SageDCT installed on the WHS server and log sent to verbose, but I cannot find any logs to help troubleshoot HD Prime tuner issues.

Can anyone help me with some troubleshooting steps to capture why these Prime tuners are so finicky? The HD Homerun has always been rock solid and my hopes were that the Prime would be as well.

I have the ports for the Prime tuners listed as exceptions in Windows Firewall and the Sage properties file lists the ports the same as Sage DCT in this format - 127.0.0.1\:6980 and so on.

Any help to get this on track before 2nd week of fall season is greatly appreciated.

[mechling-burgh]

First thing I would try would be to unplug the Prime for 30 seconds then plug it back in. I know sometimes mine will stop working from time to time and that fixes it. It's quick and easy. I always restart mine before I go away to keep that from happening.

[HuMan321]

Originally Posted by mechling-burgh

First thing I would try would be to unplug the Prime for 30 seconds then plug it back in. I know sometimes mine will stop working from time to time and that fixes it. It's quick and easy. I always restart mine before I go away to keep that from happening.

Do you shut the service down before unplugging?

[sflamm]

The HDHR Prime can be reset without physically unplugging:

C:\Program Files\Silicondust\HDHomeRun\hdhomerun_config.exe" {substitute your prime id here} set /sys/restart self

Of course you can always put the above into a scheduled task to reset the Prime during the wee hours of the night...

I personally think your issue is not the Prime...

[sflamm]

Also, instead of this:

I have the ports for the Prime tuners listed as exceptions in Windows Firewall and the Sage properties file lists the ports the same as Sage DCT in this format - 127.0.0.1\:6980 and so on.

It is easier to just allow the SageDCT app permission through the firewall... (it initiates all of the connection).

[sflamm]

SageDCT installed on the WHS server and log sent to verbose, but I cannot find any logs to help troubleshoot HD Prime tuner issues.

The log is a bit difficult to find, but if I recall correctly it is found in the 'babgvant' folder under the 'default' user AppData.... (or Application Data if you are on WinXP/2003).