HDHomeRun (HDHR) Prime + SageDCT

[phelme]

My issues arrive on occasion when the 3rd tuner kicks in on the Prime. Happened again last night with "Talking Dead" luckily one of my network encoder HD-PVR's on DirecTV was available as a fall back. And those things never fail for me considering there is a second PC and SageTV service thrown in to the mix.

There is something amiss in the Prime<->SageDCT<->SageTV chain, but I'm not sure what the heck it is. For some reason SageDCT has a communication error with the Prime and things tumble from there. When I try to test this case of course it never fails.

The best one can do is make sure nothing else that uses a lot of resources is going on when SageDCT needs to run.

[doncote0]

Hi john

Originally Posted by jlmdxtv

I've been running the Prime without the firewall...Maybe WIN7 needs it, but XP doesn't seem to.

I didn't know that, but it makes sense. WinXP firewall was radically different from Win7.

Originally Posted by jlmdxtv

I think you're right about using Windows 7.

Win7 or even the next version of Win (Win8?)

Originally Posted by jlmdxtv

Part of my fix was to set commercial skipping to "Play nice". I'd like it not to play nice, but I've seen halts otherwise.

Hmmm...this leads me to believe that something is choking on an exchange. An i3 should be able to handle the processing needed. Is this a i3-2xxx processor?

How much of the memory is set aside for the integrated video? Is the video memory fixed or dynamic? If possible, try fixing it to 1GB or 512MB.

How much RAM is available to Windows under system properties? What is your power supply rated for? How much free space is left on your hard disks?

Originally Posted by jlmdxtv

So my next upgrade (if my halts aren't really gone for good) will be a quad I5 or I7 on Windows 7 instead of the Centon.

doncote0: are you running WIN7? What processor? Prime or Centon?

I should learn how to put up a poll to see who's reliably using XP vs WIN7, I3, I5, I7, Prime vs Centon, etc. I'm guessing my setup is a bit dated.
best, john

BTW, it's Ceton not Centon.

I am running Win7 (X64) with Sage installed in its own directory c:\sageTV.
UAT is disabled. (My system is severely overpowered, most people will not need this much power.)

I use the HDHR3-CC Prime from Silicondust.

My recommendations for you in order are:

0. Power supply and cooling. Make sure your system is not under-powered or under-cooled. I have seen systems that are at 100% fail due to heat build up within the case. If you can run stable at 100% for 4 to 8 hours without the system failing, heat is probably not the issue. Quiet systems are great, but many are undercooled. Use better fans if needed which can push more air and still be quiet (e.g. Gelid).

1. OS
64 bit - Win7 x64 or better
32 bit - Win7 starter or better

2. Primary HD
For sage install and boot, I recommend a highly rated SSD of at least 120GB.
120GB is a good trade off between price, life expectancy, size and performance. IOPS (inputs/outputs per second) can limit performance on standard hard drive systems (100-200 iops max) where SSD's can meet and exceed HD demands (20000 iops or more).

3. Video card
Integrated video uses system memory and CPU for all video processes. Speeding up the system can be as simple as adding the right video card (make sure the power supply can support the upgrade).
Based on price, performance, heat generation and noise ratings, I recommend the Radeon HD 6670 or Radeon HD 7770 (listed in ascending order of performance/power usage/price).

4. Processor
either the i7-2600K, i5-2500K or i3-2100. Prices will be about $100 more when stepping up from i3 to i5 and another $100 when stepping up to i7. I have chosen the K series processors for numerous reasons: improved stability, better integrated graphics, performance vs cost and reviews.

5. Memory
4GB memory for a 32bit system otherwise, 6GB up to the board max on 64bit systems if the cost is not that great. A bit more memory could be purchased for any 64 bit system using integrated graphics.

NOTE: Hard drive fragmentation can also cause problems or performance issues. I recommend defragging severely active drives regularly (e.g. video recording drives). NEVER DEFRAGMENT SSD's, however.

[osx-addict]

Originally Posted by doncote0

NEVER DEFRAGMENT SSD's, however.

You're begging the question -- why? I'm just curious as I just setup my first system with an SSD boot drive. I would assume in this case since the SSD is not being used for active 'storage' (at least from a Sage perspective) that things won't get fragmented much anyway but I'm still curious..

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by doncote0

3. Video card
Integrated video uses system memory and CPU for all video processes. Speeding up the system can be as simple as adding the right video card (make sure the power supply can support the upgrade).
Based on price, performance, heat generation and noise ratings, I recommend the Radeon HD 6670 or Radeon HD 7770 (listed in ascending order of performance/power usage/price).

Unless you're gaming there isn't any compelling reason to use a dGPU w/ SageTV in a new build. In the HTPC context, IPGs have advanced to the point where the only purpose of a dGPU is to extend the lifespan of an aging system.

Originally Posted by doncote0

4. Processor
either the i7-2600K, i5-2500K or i3-2100. Prices will be about $100 more when stepping up from i3 to i5 and another $100 when stepping up to i7. I have chosen the K series processors for numerous reasons: improved stability, better integrated graphics, performance vs cost and reviews.

How is a "K" more stable?

HD 3000 v. HD 2000 does make a difference in some scenarios (e.g. madVR, casual gaming, etc.), but these aren't relevant to SageTV so I'm not sure that they should be thrown out there w/o qualification.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by osx-addict

You're begging the question -- why? I'm just curious as I just setup my first system with an SSD boot drive. I would assume in this case since the SSD is not being used for active 'storage' (at least from a Sage perspective) that things won't get fragmented much anyway but I'm still curious..

Flash memory has a limited number of write cycles, but more importantly because of how SSDs work there isn't a benefit to placing files sequentially. So there's no reason to defragment and it harms the drive to do it.

[doncote0]

Originally Posted by babgvant

Flash memory has a limited number of write cycles, but more importantly because of how SSDs work there isn't a benefit to placing files sequentially. So there's no reason to defragment and it harms the drive to do it.

That is true.

Write limits and wear leveling are the issues.

SSD's already have algorithms in place to ensure data read/write speeds are maximized and that writes are spread out evenly across the SSD.

Each sector of a Solid State Drive has a limited number of writes before it cannot be overwritten anymore. This is a theoretical limit which could not be reached in testing.

[phelme]

Originally Posted by jlmdxtv

Part of my fix was to set commercial skipping to "Play nice". I'd like it not to play nice, but I've seen halts otherwise.

My guess is leaving Comskip off "playnice" last night was my "halt" trigger as well.

[doncote0]

Originally Posted by babgvant

Unless you're gaming there isn't any compelling reason to use a dGPU w/ SageTV in a new build. In the HTPC context, IPGs have advanced to the point where the only purpose of a dGPU is to extend the lifespan of an aging system.

Hmmmm, is transcoding video or ripping video from blu-ray's GPU intensive? So if the you are recording 4 or more HD sources simultaneously, is that a significant GPU load? How about if you using MVP's? What creates the graphically display and does all the trancoding for that environment? What about placeshifter with the configuration to do all transcoding on the server? Now add those all up, throw in an analog recording and 5 instances of comskip.

Originally Posted by babgvant

In the HTPC context, IPGs have advanced to the point where the only purpose of a dGPU is to extend the lifespan of an aging system.

He is trying to extend the lifespan of an aging system. If he had said it was an HTPC, I would have recommended different dGPU's.

Originally Posted by babgvant

How is a "K" more stable?

Intel designed it with an unlocked multiplier and did some "other" enhancements to the processors to allow it to reach clock speeds previously unattainable. The K series processors have been shown to be able to reach speeds unattainable from their non K counterparts even without changing the multiplier.

I guess it depends on your opinion of what that means and what your needs are.

Originally Posted by babgvant

HD 3000 v. HD 2000 does make a difference in some scenarios (e.g. madVR, casual gaming, etc.), but these aren't relevant to SageTV so I'm not sure that they should be thrown out there w/o qualification.

"Some" and "etc" used in a statement that tries to downplay the importance. Misleading, interesting and weird. Maybe "many" or "most" would have been better, but that is my opinion.
Why isn't the GPU relevant to Sage? Sorry you lost me there.

Why don't you try to make your case by explaining when the HD2000 would be preferable to the HD3000 if all other factors were equal?

I didn't just "throw it" out there. The K series beats the non K counterparts, in terms of overall system performance (non GPU related), GPU performance, user reviews, technical reviews, power user reviews and system benchmarks. I guess that is a lot of opinion (not just mine) and a lot of fact all rolled up into one conclusion.

I prefer not to argue opinion especially when I initially said they were "my recommendations".

[vince100]

Originally Posted by vince100

I'm using SageDCT 2.2.0 and sharing a HDHomeRun Prime between two PC running SageTV.

One problem I am having is that SageTV in one PC would try to use a tuner that was being used by the other PC, resulting in a "No Signal" error. I am using the "Static tuners" option in SageDCT, and the "Automatically select from available tuners" option in HDHomeRun config.

Is there any configuration in SageTV to make it aware that a tuner is not available and it should try the next available one?

or should I disable the "Dynamic Tuner Allocation" in HDHomeRun?

I tried to disable the "Dynamic Tuner Allocation" and it didn't help.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by doncote0

Hmmmm, is transcoding video

It can be depending on the engine.

Originally Posted by doncote0

or ripping video from blu-ray's GPU intensive?

No. That activity is limited by the I/O of your BD drive.

Originally Posted by doncote0

So if the you are recording 4 or more HD sources simultaneously, is that a significant GPU load? How about if you using MVP's? What creates the graphically display and does all the trancoding for that environment? What about placeshifter with the configuration to do all transcoding on the server? Now add those all up, throw in an analog recording and 5 instances of comskip.

None of those things use the GPU. Recording is mainly I/O bound, if you're using network encoders then your NIC comes into play, if your NIC is a POS, then CPU matters.

CPU only matters if you're doing live commercial scanning, or you don't know how to manage process priority properly.

Originally Posted by doncote0

He is trying to extend the lifespan of an aging system. If he had said it was an HTPC, I would have recommended different dGPU's.

He said:

Originally Posted by jlmdxtv

I'm not using the SageTV Server to view the recordings, so the video card isn't an issue for me.

in that context a dGPU, any dGPU, is a waste.

Originally Posted by doncote0

Intel designed it with an unlocked multiplier and did some "other" enhancements to the processors to allow it to reach clock speeds previously unattainable. The K series processors have been shown to be able to reach speeds unattainable from their non K counterparts even without changing the multiplier.

Go look up "CPU binning". K CPUs are more overclocking friendly, and may be binned less aggressively, but there's nothing intrinsically different b/w them and their non-K counterparts from a reliability perspective. Aside from being overclocking friendly, you actually give up some features that are useful if you do any virtualization.

I included a break down of some of the differences in my reviews of various SNB processors.

Originally Posted by doncote0

that is my opinion.

Everyone is entitled to one. That said, if I find one that I disagree with potential to do more harm then good it wouldn't be right to leave it unchallenged.

Originally Posted by doncote0

Why isn't the GPU relevant to Sage? Sorry you lost me there.

Over a specific baseline additional GPU capacity is irrelevant. Like I said, there are use cases where the additional capacity provided by the HD 3000 v. HD 2000 is valuable, but SageTV doesn't tap into any of those scenarios so there isn't any reason to prefer the HD 3000 in that context.

Originally Posted by doncote0

Why don't you try to make your case by explaining when the HD2000 would be preferable to the HD3000 if all other factors were equal?

Take a look at the reviews I've done on various SKUs in the SNB lineup. I think there's pretty good coverage in there; since it includes the i5-2500K, i5-2400S, i5-2390T, and i3-2100T. If you have any subsequent questions about differences after that, I would be happy to elaborate on specific topics.

Originally Posted by doncote0

I didn't just "throw it" out there. The K series beats the non K counterparts, in terms of overall system performance (non GPU related), GPU performance, user reviews, technical reviews, power user reviews and system benchmarks. I guess that is a lot of opinion (not just mine) and a lot of fact all rolled up into one conclusion.

It depends how you define "beats". If the question is just about raw CPU performance, sure in a family highest clock wins. IMO, there is more to the answer than that, which is why I, and other reviewers, look at the family to provide more information than what would be provided by just picking the "fastest" part.

Again, I'm not trying to say that you aren't entitled to an opinion; just that there's more to it than what you presented.

[jbuszkie]

Originally Posted by Ron

I just found that on the SageDCT test tab, the tuner that is not functioning is reporting as the target machine is actively refusing the connection from that assigned port number.

This might be the firewall issue. You need to have it enabled. Search back through this thread to see more details as I'm not the expert here.

Jim

[Ron]

Originally Posted by jbuszkie

This might be the firewall issue. You need to have it enabled. Search back through this thread to see more details as I'm not the expert here.

Jim

Firewall is enabled.

Short history of events. Sage had been running perfectly for months. When I got my HDHR Prime in Dec., I carefully followed the steps to install the encoder, activate the cable card and configure SageDCT. Immediately worked with zero issues. And has been working flawlessly without interruption since then. Just this past weekend, as I recall after inadvertently installing a Java update, my Sage service stopped working and could not be restarted. I tried a system restore to an earlier point to no avail. Not having a backup, I had no other recourse but to do a wipe and reinstall.

And here I am. Sage is working fine, however can't get SageDCT to act properly.

Suggestions?

[phelme]

Originally Posted by Ron

Firewall is enabled.

Short history of events. Sage had been running perfectly for months. When I got my HDHR Prime in Dec., I carefully followed the steps to install the encoder, activate the cable card and configure SageDCT. Immediately worked with zero issues. And has been working flawlessly without interruption since then. Just this past weekend, as I recall after inadvertently installing a Java update, my Sage service stopped working and could not be restarted. I tried a system restore to an earlier point to no avail. Not having a backup, I had no other recourse but to do a wipe and reinstall.

And here I am. Sage is working fine, however can't get SageDCT to act properly.

Suggestions?

definitely smells like a firewall issue if the testing tab on SageDCT isn't producing a video file. I'm no Win7 expert since I'm on XP (and out of town so can't view my server). search for "firewall" on this thread and see how to set up the firewall ports. then the best thing to do is find the Application Data folder for SageDCT and look at the logs.

does the Discovery tab find all the Prime tuners?

[Ron]

Originally Posted by phelme

definitely smells like a firewall issue if the testing tab on SageDCT isn't producing a video file. I'm no Win7 expert since I'm on XP (and out of town so can't view my server). search for "firewall" on this thread and see how to set up the firewall ports. then the best thing to do is find the Application Data folder for SageDCT and look at the logs.

does the Discovery tab find all the Prime tuners?

Yes, discovery does find the tuners.

I've got some hints of things to look at tonight when I'm home. Also, just for the heck of it, I'll change the network card so that I can eliminate that as a cause of my problems.

Thanks,

[Telecore]

I just experienced a similar problem, Sage+SageDCT working 100% for months. All of a sudden, Sage service won't start. Did complete re-install on Windows 7 x64 pro, Sage 7.1.9 and SageDCT 2.2 x64. Got a bit further - everthing is more or less working but I am getting HALTs during recording of HDHR prime channels. Got 2 HDHR ATSC tuners + 2 HDHR Primes running 20120128 software. Zipped up verbose SageDCT file is attached. Doubled RTP buffer and quadrupled write buffer with no luck. Any help would be appreciated.

By the way, I did encounter the same problem during my install after getting SageTV mostly working, putting the PC into a homegroup cause the Sage Process and Program to not be able to run. Couldn't fix by chaning firewall settings. Had to add PC to homegroup 1st, then install Sage + DCT.

[Email68]

Same story here. All of a sudden random halts and no video from Prime. Im on WHSv1 headless HP MediaSmart.

What I found tinkering around is if I run the HD Homerun app on my iPad the stream works great on both the iPad and the sage/dct. When I close the iPad app, the sage/dct immediately starts to stutter and stop. When I open the iPad app again, video resumes perfectly. It does not matter what channel the HDHomerun app is playing.

If anyone else has an iPad and the HD Homerun app, give it a try.

[doncote0]

All of a sudden problems. Silicondust.com is down. I do not think it is a coincidence. Guess the HDHR Primes do not like silicondust.com being unavailable.

[Email68]

Anyone know why my whs (windows 2003) has to have the firewall OFF to have prime work?

I've opened the ports that DCT assigned as UDP. But as soon as I put the firewall on, prime stops working.

[jlmdxtv]

Did you add "SageDCT.exe" to the list of "Programs and Services" in the firewall? I think that's worth a test. You'll have to browse for its location -- by default mine was in "\Program Files\babgvant.com\SageDCT".

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by Email68

Anyone know why my whs (windows 2003) has to have the firewall OFF to have prime work?

I've opened the ports that DCT assigned as UDP. But as soon as I put the firewall on, prime stops working.

I had SageDCT on mine for awhile and the firewall was on with no issues. I have since moved on to WHS2011.

Gerry