SageTV acquired by Google

[sleonard]

The vast majority of my Netflix queue are old movies not available thru Redbox and, since all the brick and mortar stores have gone bankrupt and closed, there is no where else to get them. I'm stuck with Netflix DVD/BD rentals. As for streaming, I joined NF for the rentals before streaming even existed. I never watch any streaming and could do without it but my wife does and I just bought her a Roku for the bedroom so I'm stuck with that too.

Sigh.

S

[Fuzzy]

yeah, redbox is probably why we'll cancel netflix (if the numbers of blurays available goes up). Currently, we'll use redbox for kids stuff, where bluray doesn't matter - the only reason we HAVE netflix is for the blurays at this point... which is becoming less and less useful.

the fact that our usage is so sporadic makes a monthly subscription based service not ideal, and the fact that there are 31 red boxes within 5 miles of my house leans it WAY in their favor. The ONLY thing netflix has over redbox is the streaming, and frankly, that STILL to this day has a pretty terrible selection.

[gdippel]

Originally Posted by ArcAiN6

i wonder what every happened to all those anti-trust / anti-monopoly laws there used to be... oh.. that's right, they were lobbied out of existence.. so THAT's how we got " too big to fail "

Google has come under scrutiny of US and European regulators, so I wouldn't count out those "anti-trust, anti-monopoly laws" quite yet. For instance, see http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/24/technology/24ftc.html

[Fuzzy]

Well of course, the top guy is always going to be under scrutiny. That doesn't mean they broke any laws to become the top guy (which seems to be the growing assumption). That investigation is geared to whether google adjusts the order of results based on whether the site is a competitor or not. Even if they do, I fail to see how it is illegal. Google.com's search engine is NOT public domain, and the removal of advertising of ones competitors on ones own storefront should be fully acceptable. Should Target be investigated for anti-trust violations because they don't let Walmart put ads in their windows?

[mistergq]

Originally Posted by reggie14

I find it interesting that so many people here are saying this. Most people I know are doing the opposite. They always found the DVD plan as a cheap add-on, and are dropping that with the recent price changes. Most people I know with Netflix still end up getting most of their DVDs through RedBox, so they've said they're just going to keep Netflix streaming.

I'll hold on the the DVD plan, but I'm going to drop down to the 2-out plan. Now that RedBox has blu-rays in my area, I've been using that for most new release movies (since it can take a long time to get them through Netflix). But, I get a fair number of old movies and TV shows that aren't aren't available through RedBox or streaming.

I use Netflix streaming a lot though. The selection has gotten a lot better over the last couple of years.

initially, we will be dropping Netflix to streaming only, and maybe ultimately cancelling that as well. I just don't find the quality that great and as such,I am not sure its worth the monthly cost. Because we don't watch DVDs or Blurays as quick as it would make the plan worthwhile, the 1 disc and streaming is just cost prohibitive, especially considering how many redboxes are by my house.

[hemicuda]

I should be able to finish out the remaining items in my queue by the end of the month and will most likely cancel the account. I haven't really seen anything in the streaming section that I can't get off Amazon(etc) or don't already have. Redbox has several kiosks close by and my work travels put me near many more through the week; Nice that they let you return them to anywhere. The youngling prevents us from having time to watch much more than TV series these days. I hate to let go of Netflix, but looks like I will.

I'm trying not to get myself stuck in "fossilized thinking" where I ignore better/newer/different options just because I have something that works for the time being. The trouble that causes at work can be epic sometimes.

I knew Netflix would never be able to grow and maintain the same price point from years back. Figured things were going to change when they bumped prices a while back.

[emveepee]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

This, alone certainly wouldn't get me to switch from sage (because, frankly, I like how I have sage set up, and do have one HD300), but I would like to help push nPVR to the point that it COULD replace sagetv at some point, since I have a feeling Google's solution is not going to be for me.

I am not trying to make you switch, I like coding plugins as a hobby and I have always wanted to have a reason to write a tuner plugin. I was seriously considering buying SageTV because of the development community here, and I am really glad I didn't, I like new users to be able to try stuff too. I don't see NPVR as a replacement for SageTV, but I really am hoping more SageTV developers consider NPVR. HTPC is a fantastic hobby for me, but it needs to attract new users to be vital and relevant and I want them to have Windows alternatives to MCE/7MC.

I saw the other post with the string info I ran into a few snags writing a tuner plugin, but I will let you know if I have success. From the NPVR side if you do want to test it, you would need an XMLTV file or a Schedules Direct account if you want to have real data but otherwise manual recording will work.

Martin

[Fuzzy]

Yeah, if you get a test level plugin cooked up, I'll give it a whirl on my r5000's to test out for you.

[emveepee]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

Yeah, if you get a test level plugin cooked up, I'll give it a whirl on my r5000's to test out for you.

I tried to send a PM but you in box is full

I have got the basic model for r5000 working and have built a minor tcp listener to test but I have a few questions before I can provide a rough alpha copy.

1. Do you know if the UNE server is looking for a carriage return/linefeed? Some older servers like that.

2. Does the r5000 need to be configured to use remote tuning or is it performed as part of the START command?

3. NPVR will want the files created in the configured NPVR "Recordings Directory". This could be a problem if you use drive letters and NPVR isn't running on the same PC as your r5000 host. If you want I can hard code the drive or share info for the r5000 but NPVR does still need to see it. Eventually I would need write access to the folder since NPVR can use an index for more accurate seeking and I would like to write that.

4. When would you have some free time to test? I'd probably like you to start by running my convert from wiz.bin utility and then send my the npvr.db3 file that it creates and I will poke in the tuners. I will get one tuner working first and then the second. If you want you can send my an epg xmltv or schedules direct file and I can import it, but sub is going to make a generic importer for tuner plugins which I want to use rather than building my own.

I prefer email to PM's if you'd like to continue via your email PM your email address.

Thanks for offering to take a look.

Martin

[kkelley929]

Geeze! I have been running just fine with SageTV and missed all the Google stuff untill I tried to buy another HD300 tonight.

At a minum is there another solution that does the following?

1-stream mkv moves with HD Audio. Would like to have a MyMovies like interface.
2-stream live HD from my Comcast box to secondary TVs. This seems to be the hard part. Could do with out PVR if necissary.
3-Decent music jukebox

Not too much to ask is it?

I forget what the deal is with Media Center but it would be nice if there were some HD /HD audio extenders out there for that.

[photon]

You can watch ebay for HD300s in order to stick with Sagetv. I'm happily sticking with Sage

[kkelley929]

Can someone remind me as to what the issue is with Media Center? I think the interface is fine.

Why is it that Xbox is the only extender available?

Is there any way to stream HD audio?

Thx!

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by kkelley929

Can someone remind me as to what the issue is with Media Center? I think the interface is fine.

Why is it that Xbox is the only extender available?

Is there any way to stream HD audio?

Thx!

You've just mentioned some of the issues. There is no PC client-or other client available anymore for it. All the recordings are wrapped in DRM. I don't believe you can stream DVDs to the Xbox either unless it is ripped as something other than a .vob.

Gerry

[sleonard]

Originally Posted by kkelley929

Can someone remind me as to what the issue is with Media Center? I think the interface is fine.

Why is it that Xbox is the only extender available?

Is there any way to stream HD audio?

Thx!

The UI is quite nice looking although I don't know how user friendly it is (I've never actually used it in a real life situation).

All the other companies that used to make extenders stopped making them. Usually because of low sales volume. There never has been a SW client but something called "Softsled" was rumored to be in the works for years.

The Xbox does function as an extender but has a less functional UI than MC itself. It is also extremely limited in the A/V formats it supports.

IMHO, M$ really blew it with Media Center. If I had been running things any Media Center PC would have seamlessly worked with any other MCPC on the home network. Each having full and unrestriced access to all the others media libraries and recording schedules and presented them in a unified and consolidated manner. It would have all the advantages of the Sage client/server model but using a distributed computing model instead. I also would have really pushed the extenders and even made non-xbox extenders in-house instead of relying on third parties like Logitech.

But, then, I am not running things am I

S

[speck55]

Originally Posted by sleonard

IMHO, M$ really blew it with Media Center. If I had been running things any Media Center PC would have seamlessly worked with any other MCPC on the home network. Each having full and unrestriced access to all the others media libraries and recording schedules and presented them in a unified and consolidated manner. It would have all the advantages of the Sage client/server model but using a distributed computing model instead.

S

See also: Microsoft MediaRoom. But that's for IPTV cable companies.

[texneus]

(In response to when kkelley929 asked "Can someone remind me as to what the issue is with Media Center")

Originally Posted by gplasky

All the recordings are wrapped in DRM.

As much as I have been an ardiment detractor of Windows Media Center because of the DRM, I will give it justice where it is due. All recordings are NOT wrapped in DRM. Unless things have changed with Windows 7:

Only content delivered as copy once (either by CGMS-A or macrovision for analog captures or by CCI flags in case of digital) will get the DRM wrapper. For a variety of reasons this is extremely annoying , as anyone who has used WMC for any length of time will attest to.

Content flagged copy never can't even be recorded or watched live (since the recording on the HDD is in fact...a copy). YES, I have seen this happen personally and this was the explanation provided by MS on The Green Button (RIP).

Content flagged copy freely or not flagged at all is recorded in the clear, which all indications are when I moved to Sage is getting to be less and less...

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by texneus

(In response to when kkelley929 asked "Can someone remind me as to what the issue is with Media Center")



As much as I have been an ardiment detractor of Windows Media Center because of the DRM, I will give it justice where it is due. All recordings are NOT wrapped in DRM. Unless things have changed with Windows 7:

Only content delivered as copy once (either by CGMS-A or macrovision for analog captures or by CCI flags in case of digital) will get the DRM wrapper. For a variety of reasons this is extremely annoying , as anyone who has used WMC for any length of time will attest to.

Content flagged copy never can't even be recorded or watched live (since the recording on the HDD is in fact...a copy). YES, I have seen this happen personally and this was the explanation provided by MS on The Green Button (RIP).

Content flagged copy freely or not flagged at all is recorded in the clear, which all indications are when I moved to Sage is getting to be less and less...

And the random black screen issues. If you pause something and come back to watch it....you can't it is frozen on a black screen. Now I remember why I hate WMC so much...

[scm]

It has been three months since the announcement of Google's acquisition of Sage. As far as I know, the things we know about this is are:
1. It happened
2. We are supposed to have tv guide data for one year.

Have we heard anything what Google is doing with Sage? Do we know if development is continuing? Has the Sage team been absorbed into other Google projects rendering Sage dead? I am surprised at the complete lack of rumor or fact about all this, or have I just missed things?

* merged *

[aflat]

Originally Posted by gplasky

You've just mentioned some of the issues. There is no PC client-or other client available anymore for it. All the recordings are wrapped in DRM. I don't believe you can stream DVDs to the Xbox either unless it is ripped as something other than a .vob.

Gerry

Also, try streaming a blu-ray rip to a xbox. What it's over 4gb in size? Sorry, won't play it.

[panteragstk]

Originally Posted by scm

It has been three months since the announcement of Google's acquisition of Sage. As far as I know, the things we know about this is are:
1. It happened
2. We are supposed to have tv guide data for one year.

Have we heard anything what Google is doing with Sage? Do we know if development is continuing? Has the Sage team been absorbed into other Google projects rendering Sage dead? I am surprised at the complete lack of rumor or fact about all this, or have I just missed things?

* merged *

Jeff is now a google employee and his NDA won't let him tell us anything else. Now you are up to date.