SageTV acquired by Google

[rjsimmons]

Strangely (note the play on words) enough, I had pretty much the same thought. It makes a great deal of sense for google to leverage the technology obtained from the SageTV aquisition on a wider platform...and lets face it, competition for consumers has moved full force into the mobile/portable arena. If you doubt that, look at Apple's last financial report.

[Clift]

Originally Posted by stanger89

You know I had a thought after reading the CQC comments and the earlier refernce to Android@Home. I think maybe we're all thinking too small so far. I mean the the most common theory is that Google wanted a DVR for GoogleTV, but if you really think about that, surely Google has enough smart people to deliver the simple DVR necessary for a "mass market" system. Placeshifting, again, I don't see a problem for Google to come up with that on their own.

What's Sage's strength? It's the multi-platform, whole-house system. And we all know Google dreams big, I mean Google only wants to organize the worlds data....

What if, just if, the plan for Sage is far, far bigger. What I'm thinking is:

GoogleTV + Android@Home + SageTV

Just think about it, a home automation system with SageTV's backend (DVR and media serving), GoogleTV as a frontend (built into boxes and TVs), placeshifting to android devices. Complete "organization", integration and control of all the media and all the connected devices in your home.

Now that sounds like something ambitious enough to warrant Google purchasing a whole company and not just devoting an internal team or two.

This.

Exactly what I was thinking. Also, don't think of the traditional back end frond end like how we think of it now. No sir. Not a PC in an office/closet somewhere serving to extenders... Think of a Google TV appliance that has quad cableCARD tuners that you use as a front end and back end. That same box can serve upteen clients/extenders. You buy the GoogleTV (it's really SageTV technology in there) and then you expand the setup with smaller dumb client extenders. The only downside to this would be the inevitable DRM. But really, I expect this GoogleTV box to be rooted and apps to do some of the things we really want. Like hooking up an additional backend (daisy GoogleTV boxes, or roll your own PC), and transcoding of recordings that we aren't "allowed" to. And for those who think Google would never allow this, remember the Google Music thing that doesn't have RIAA approval or the way Google fought for creative commons in Youtube, or their quest to archive out of copyright books. Google may not always be successful taking on the big corporations against the little guy, but they are never ones to not try. In the end I think the base product will not be as extensive as the SageTV we know now, but I am willing to bet it will be a heck of a lot easier to set up. This will lead to more users, which will lead to more hacks, which will lead to more development, which will lead to the same levels (if not higher) of plugins to do the things we really want. Hopefully this comes quick, and without the headaches of building your own server (no matter how fun it can be).

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Now that sounds like something ambitious enough to warrant Google purchasing a whole company and not just devoting an internal team or two.

Oh, now see what you did there? You went and rained on everybody's pity party! It's amazing what a little outside the box thinking can do. There's a reason none of us work for Google.

[IVB]

Originally Posted by stanger89

You know I had a thought after reading the CQC comments and the earlier refernce to Android@Home. I think maybe we're all thinking too small so far. I mean the the most common theory is that Google wanted a DVR for GoogleTV, but if you really think about that, surely Google has enough smart people to deliver the simple DVR necessary for a "mass market" system. Placeshifting, again, I don't see a problem for Google to come up with that on their own.

What's Sage's strength? It's the multi-platform, whole-house system. And we all know Google dreams big, I mean Google only wants to organize the worlds data....

What if, just if, the plan for Sage is far, far bigger. What I'm thinking is:

GoogleTV + Android@Home + SageTV

Just think about it, a home automation system with SageTV's backend (DVR and media serving), GoogleTV as a frontend (built into boxes and TVs), placeshifting to android devices. Complete "organization", integration and control of all the media and all the connected devices in your home.

Now that sounds like something ambitious enough to warrant Google purchasing a whole company and not just devoting an internal team or two.

A) if dean sells cqc to google, which is only a few miles from his apt, I'm driving down and kicking his ass. I know where he lives :-)
B) Android@home is a total joke and would take an army years to catch up and it would never work right in the cloud. Although now that I type that out, it makes the above acquisition more likely. Crap, a mod better delete all references to CQC and HA now!

[SteveD]

Originally Posted by robk

Is it legal (in the terms and conditions) to sell our private viewing habits to Google? Certainly there is a back door written in SageTV to allow the harvesting of wiz.bin.
On the same subject, has anyone who is knowledgeable in law looked into what SageTV has to keep providing to us, such as Placeshifter Locator ID, EPG, etc.?

Locater ID is not necessary to use placeshifter. You can connect directly to your server using your external Ip address.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by Brent

I like the way Stanger89 thinks. And it would explain some of the cryptic responses I've been getting from some people. That being said.. er typed, I still have to keep my pessimist hat on for now until I see or at the very least hear more concrete info from those definitely in the know. Man, that would be awesome - I just don't want to get my hopes up.

Well I think even if that is the case, I very much doubt the transition from SageTV to "Super SageTV GoogleTV Android@Home solution" will be smooth for us. My guess is best "realistic" case for this situation is SageTV 7.1 final is released, EPG is officially retained in the mean time. And at some point in the future, SageTV is officially EOL'd in favor of "Super SageTV GoogleTV Android@Home solution"

Though if I were to wish for an ideal scenario, it would be that SageTV would be "turned back on", and development would commence on "SageTV 8" as "Super SageTV GoogleTV Android@Home solution" and we'd be able to migrate our systems over nearly as seamlessly as we've done for prior major SageTV version changes.

Though I'm not sure I really think any of these are terribly likely. I "fear" that "Super SageTV GoogleTV Android@Home solution" will be enough different than SageTV in both implementation and ideals, that it will be unappealing.

[fidget]

Originally Posted by stanger89

You know I had a thought after reading the CQC comments and the earlier refernce to Android@Home. I think maybe we're all thinking too small so far. I mean the the most common theory is that Google wanted a DVR for GoogleTV, but if you really think about that, surely Google has enough smart people to deliver the simple DVR necessary for a "mass market" system. Placeshifting, again, I don't see a problem for Google to come up with that on their own.

What's Sage's strength? It's the multi-platform, whole-house system. And we all know Google dreams big, I mean Google only wants to organize the worlds data....

What if, just if, the plan for Sage is far, far bigger. What I'm thinking is:

GoogleTV + Android@Home + SageTV

Just think about it, a home automation system with SageTV's backend (DVR and media serving), GoogleTV as a frontend (built into boxes and TVs), placeshifting to android devices. Complete "organization", integration and control of all the media and all the connected devices in your home.

Now that sounds like something ambitious enough to warrant Google purchasing a whole company and not just devoting an internal team or two.

I don't know how well the OEMs have kept GoogleTV up to date, but if the Android phone OEMs are any indication, I don't think they will be (there isn't any incentive to keep your TV or other box updated once you have paid for it). Sage is very good at coming out with updates (both beta and others) and it is our own faultnif we let things get out of date.

[Slugger]

Originally Posted by ldavis

Let me third or forth that motion. Could someone who knows how to get and import XMLTV data give us a simple how to (at least concept). Fortunately for me, I only use OTA and most of my local channels supply that data directly. However, FOX and CBS are two that do not and it would be difficult to get along without them.

I think it is way to early to look at alternative systems as a longtime Sage user but until Sage gives us something definitive about the EPG data. I think it is prudent to have a method in place just in case. I have no intention of jumping ship as I am happy with the current function of SageTV, but this seems like a reasonable step to ensure continued and uninterrupted service.

Originally Posted by nyplayer

On my test machine I used MC2XML to create the xml file and XMLTV Importer for SageTV Easy to setup and works.

There's XMLTV via a few different ways and you eventually use the linked to XMLTV importer plugin to get that data into the Sage EPG. I'd give you more details, but I really haven't studied it too closely yet myself - just enough to know it's there if the plug were pulled on the Sage EPG server tomorrow.

I've also been talking directly with Schedules Direct and as long as they get the waiver/exception from TMS, which I've been told "shouldn't be an issue" then I've already mocked up a SageTV plugin that can simply replace the Sage EPG server and get listings from SD into Sage. Install the plugin, feed it your Schedules Direct id/pwd and forget about it.**

Needless to say, (Canadian/American) users won't be shutout too long if the Sage EPG server vanished suddenly. With that said, I hope it doesn't happen because based on my research, the data provided by Schedules Direct isn't nearly as thorough as the data from the Sage EPG server. I was a bit surprised by this given they both get their data from the same source. I'm guessing Sage pays more for more data than SD does. But in that doom's day scenario, less data is better than no data.

** By mocked up, I really mean pre-pre proof of concept. I've looked at the XML SD provides and I've studied the Sage EPGPlugin interface and it really isn't a big deal to make it happen. It'll be a decent amount of work, but not too difficult. I'll probably chip away at it during the rest of the summer and by fall I'll have a plugin ready. Obviously if the plug is pulled on the Sage EPG server sooner than that then my schedule gets bumped up. If the plug were pulled tomorrow then XMLTV doesn't look too difficult to get working in the meantime.

[valnar]

I think we are giving Google too much credit. If they could have whipped up a DVR system with all their resources, they would have. I think they couldn't. If Google was good (meaning: competent) as people are making them out to be, then GoogleTV wouldn't have sucked so bad.

[SteveD]

Personally, I don't think there is a activation server. There is only the activation key that is supplied by sagetv. That being said, if we are abandon by Sagetv/Google, there are enough licenses.

[briands]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

Oh, now see what you did there? You went and rained on everybody's pity party! It's amazing what a little outside the box thinking can do. There's a reason none of us work for Google.

Who says we don't?

[larryf]

It could have been worse....

Much worse if Microsoft bought Sage

larry

[nyle]

Wow so someone will funally bring full Internet TV to the masses. We'll all be running Google's SageTV and tuning all of our channels over the Internet. SWEET! Ok, I'm completely dreaming now but once in a while it feels good to dream.

Can you imagine HD video streams over the Internet direct into a revamped SageTV.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by nyle

Wow so someone will funally bring full Internet TV to the masses. We'll all be running Google's SageTV and tuning all of our channels over the Internet. SWEET! Ok, I'm completely dreaming now but once in a while it feels good to dream.

Can you imagine HD video streams over the Internet direct into a revamped SageTV.

I can't see that as being BETTER than the higher quality broadcasts we have now.

[BobbyDing]

It could have been worse....

Much worse if Microsoft bought Sage

My thoughts exactly!!!

[peternm22]

I think we need to look at this asking the question "What does SageTV have that Google couldn't easily replicate in house?". I have a few ideas:

1) The DVR functionality. I don't think there are many DVR's that have any where near the flexibility and features that SageTV has. All of the shortcomings of SageTV are directly related to licensing and DRM (Netflix, cablecard, etc). The core functionality is solid.
2) The people who work at SageTV. Often times big companies will buy up smaller companies for no reason other than to get the talent.
3) Patents. I don't know if SageTV owns any, but if they do this could be why Google is interested in them.


Reasons that I think can be safely ruled out:

1) Placeshifting. This has been speculated about, but at the end of the day, I don't see anything particularly unique about SageTV placeshifting that Google couldn't implement themselves. Several companies have similar technologies: Slingbox, Air Video, and Orb. The core of SageTV placeshifting is ffmpeg, so there isn't a lot of unique backend to it (at least not to justify buying the whole company)
2) Shutting down a competitor. SageTV is really too small to be a threat to Google.

Maybe Google is envisioning the next iteration of GoogleTV not as a box you connect your receiver to, but as the receiver itself. I think most people see GoogleTV today as a huge letdown, Google must know this as well. Slapping SageTV into the existing GoogleTV platform seems like a silly idea. Google develops the software, and then cable, satellite and TV companies can load up the software on a device they sell. Just like Android.

If they do go this route, it's not outside the realm of possibility that they open source the software.

All speculation of course, but we have nothing else to do...

[karhill]

I just paid for SageTV, and now, before I've had a chance to download the product even, they have pulled the links on their site.

This is close to a criminal action: it's a crime to take payment and not provide the product. I'm going to dispute this credit card payment.

I'm upset that SageTV is gone, but I'm even more upset about the way they have gone about this. To pull all links to the product is piss poor business practices.

[robk]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I can't see that as being BETTER than the higher quality broadcasts we have now.

I agree - how many HD streams can your internet connection handle simultaneously? Here in FL, UVerse limits HD to two TVs at a time and the internet browser speed drops to 1 or 2 mbs. And that's with fiber at the street, coax to the house. Look forward to heavy compression, artifacting, freezing, etc. No big downloads if someone in the house is watching HDTV.

Also, not everyone can afford very high speed like RoadRunner Lightning - advertised as 40down/5up (on a good day) which goes for about $65/month + taxes here.

[sleonard]

Originally Posted by nyle

Wow so someone will funally bring full Internet TV to the masses. We'll all be running Google's SageTV and tuning all of our channels over the Internet. SWEET! Ok, I'm completely dreaming now but once in a while it feels good to dream.

Can you imagine HD video streams over the Internet direct into a revamped SageTV.

Not thru my internet connection. I only have three tuners but that equates to ~40Mbit/s just for TV. Is Google gonna give me 10+ TB of space in their cloud to store all my ripped music, DVD's and Blurays?

Personally I like Stanger's idea of merging with Android@home but it better learn to speak z-wave. I have too much of an investment to replace all my HA devices. And it had better be friendly to my Windows Phone 7 phone and my Windows PC's because they're not going anywhere.

S

[thatdude90210]

Google can build Sage into Chrome OS, just like WMC in Windows, then sell extender-like boxes. Add browser functionality, and Google has your whole house connected.