Cablecard... again.

[QuasiInsomniac]

Originally Posted by gplasky

The HD stuff is broadcast in QAM. It's just not broadcast in ClearQAM. I'm on Comcast and they still broadcast some of the HD stations in ClearQAM. (OTA locals and UHD, MGMHD, TBS, etc.) Not as many as they use to. At one time I was getting like 92 channels in clearQAM. Now about 37. I use the HD-PVR and a set top box to get them all now.

Gerry

I'm a cable box phobe and I don't want to pay more for 5 extra devices. I still maintain that because the standard of viewing hardware has increased, that the standard of content quality (resolution) should be increased as well.

[phenixdragon]

Originally Posted by gplasky

Because of the requirement for DRM you're proably not going to see this offered by Sage. The HD-PVR and a set top box is a viable alternative. As well as the Colossus card-once the bugs are worked out. People don't really care what the solution is to recording HD as long as it works all the time and is cheap enough. Sage not having a cable card solution is not the end of the world for Sage. If they did everyone would have a cable card in their TV and no set top boxes.

Gerry

I forget the exact specifics, but SageTV, and others, can support CableCARD. I would go with SageTV again but because I don't want 4+ cable boxes I am with Windows Media Center rocking a Ceton tuner. It's cheaper and takes up much less room. Actually I am running 8 tuners, 1 Ceton quad CableCARD tuner and 2 dual tuner QAM tuners. SageTV kicks major butt, but hurts big time not supporting CableCARD.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by phenixdragon

I forget the exact specifics, but SageTV, and others, can support CableCARD. I would go with SageTV again but because I don't want 4+ cable boxes I am with Windows Media Center rocking a Ceton tuner. It's cheaper and takes up much less room. Actually I am running 8 tuners, 1 Ceton quad CableCARD tuner and 2 dual tuner QAM tuners. SageTV kicks major butt, but hurts big time not supporting CableCARD.

Guess it depends on your cup of tea I have been saying this allot lately as well and for me this is why cablecard and wmc don't wine.

1. Lack of a true client platform on wmc
2. Xbox as extenders are worthless and can't play anything but tv would be barable if option 1 existed but that seems to never happen. "softsled" has been rumored for years now.
3. Can't use commercial skip on any copy protected recordings. This is huge for me as the wife and i can't go back to not using com skip.
4. Lack of integrated blu ray playback sure there are third party solutions but they are a pia most of the time. This is where a true extender comes in true hd audio and video support is a must of any real extender.
5. Support an fixes. Sage wins by miles and miles here. Try to get MS to fix a bug wait a year for a service pack and then did out it still isn't fixed.
6. The picture quality isn't that much better over Collusus with hdmi or component.
7. SDV that right there requires 2 boxes to get 4 feeds if your cable company uses SDV (mine does) so if I am going to have to have to boxes anywyas miss well be sticking with sage. So it isn't always a clean and "simple" solution like some make it to be.
8. Cable card technology has already been announced Dead by the FCC. Now it may be a couple of years before the replacement comes along but I am not buying any technology already announced dead in the water no thanks.
9. WMC generates no money for MS. It is nothing more than a testing ground for media room and xbox live. Therefor I believe it will be killed off in futurie versions. MS has shown time and time again their focus is on xbox live not wmc.

There is my long winded version and opinions. I have used practically every option out there. I was a WMC user since it first arrived in 2002 and use the first ATI dual cable card tuners from Dell. I have also used dual r5000 mods. So I have used a gamit of options and wasted allot of money for limited functionality. For me my money and time is best spent with a company that listens to its users and actually has a whole home media solution as well as a great placeshifter. So my money stays with sagetv

The ceton product is a great product I don't mean totale away from that. It does what it does well. It is just said it is only available on such limited platform (WMC).

[phenixdragon]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Guess it depends on your cup of tea I have been saying this allot lately as well and for me this is why cablecard and wmc don't wine.

1. Lack of a true client platform on wmc
2. Xbox as extenders are worthless and can't play anything but tv would be barable if option 1 existed but that seems to never happen. "softsled" has been rumored for years now.
3. Can't use commercial skip on any copy protected recordings. This is huge for me as the wife and i can't go back to not using com skip.
4. Lack of integrated blu ray playback sure there are third party solutions but they are a pia most of the time. This is where a true extender comes in true hd audio and video support is a must of any real extender.
5. Support an fixes. Sage wins by miles and miles here. Try to get MS to fix a bug wait a year for a service pack and then did out it still isn't fixed.
6. The picture quality isn't that much better over Collusus with hdmi or component.
7. SDV that right there requires 2 boxes to get 4 feeds if your cable company uses SDV (mine does) so if I am going to have to have to boxes anywyas miss well be sticking with sage. So it isn't always a clean and "simple" solution like some make it to be.
8. Cable card technology has already been announced Dead by the FCC. Now it may be a couple of years before the replacement comes along but I am not buying any technology already announced dead in the water no thanks.
9. WMC generates no money for MS. It is nothing more than a testing ground for media room and xbox live. Therefor I believe it will be killed off in futurie versions. MS has shown time and time again their focus is on xbox live not wmc.

There is my long winded version and opinions. I have used practically every option out there. I was a WMC user since it first arrived in 2002 and use the first ATI dual cable card tuners from Dell. I have also used dual r5000 mods. So I have used a gamit of options and wasted allot of money for limited functionality. For me my money and time is best spent with a company that listens to its users and actually has a whole home media solution as well as a great placeshifter. So my money stays with sagetv

The ceton product is a great product I don't mean totale away from that. It does what it does well. It is just said it is only available on such limited platform (WMC).

There is my long winded version and opinions. I have used practically every option out there. I was a WMC user since it first arrived in 2002 and use the first ATI dual cable card tuners from Dell. I have also used dual r5000 mods. So I have used a gamit of options and wasted allot of money for limited functionality. For me my money and time is best spent with a company that listens to its users and actually has a whole home media solution as well as a great placeshifter. So my money stays with sagetv

The ceton product is a great product I don't mean totale away from that. It does what it does well. It is just said it is only available on such limited platform (WMC).[/QUOTE]

I'm not going to go into each number you pointed out but you really need to read up a bit. You are a behind in the times. Such as you can commercial skip protected content (I’m not a fan of this type of technology with anyone for various reasons but that’s my preference), essentially have native Blu-ray playback (I do it all the time with the correct codec) and no need for a 2nd box for SDV with the Ceton card and the latest drivers that you just need to sign up for to use. I don’t think they are beta but they aren’t available by default just yet. But that’s just to name a few. I’m not trying to say one is better than the other as I have both WMC and SageTV. If Sage had CableCARD support, no need for WMC.

But my whole point is that the Ceton card will work with SaveTV, more as in CableCARD will work with SageTV if the developers got on it. I know for awhile it was believed that you had to have the OS certified by CableLabs but they have stated that is not true and what did allow you to use CableCARD, which included SageTV. I mean like I said I don’t remember the details but it was about 2 years ago when they announced some changes. Someone I think either from SageTV or who was a fan of SageTV asked them and they said this. So basically it was available but no one understood what the rules actually where.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by phenixdragon

I'm not going to go into each number you pointed out but you really need to read up a bit. You are a behind in the times. Such as you can commercial skip protected content (I’m not a fan of this type of technology with anyone for various reasons but that’s my preference),
.

I would be interested in how you are doing this it is my understanding that copy protected can't be commercial skipped as none of the external apps can open the program to scan it and there is no way around this. Would love to be wrong but pretty sure i am not.

Originally Posted by phenixdragon

essentially have native Blu-ray playback (I do it all the time with the correct codec)
.

I call BS there because WMC doesn't support native blu ray at all. You can with third party software but that isn't native.

Originally Posted by phenixdragon

and no need for a 2nd box for SDV with the Ceton card and the latest drivers that you just need to sign up for to use. I don’t think they are beta but they aren’t available by default just yet. But that’s just to name a few.
.

okay so still need one box which is all I have now. I collusus and 4 ota tuners.

Originally Posted by phenixdragon

I’m not trying to say one is better than the other as I have both WMC and SageTV. If Sage had CableCARD support, no need for WMC.

Oh but I was Sage is clearly the superior software.

Originally Posted by phenixdragon

But my whole point is that the Ceton card will work with SaveTV, more as in CableCARD will work with SageTV if the developers got on it. I know for awhile it was believed that you had to have the OS certified by CableLabs but they have stated that is not true and what did allow you to use CableCARD, which included SageTV. I mean like I said I don’t remember the details but it was about 2 years ago when they announced some changes. Someone I think either from SageTV or who was a fan of SageTV asked them and they said this. So basically it was available but no one understood what the rules actually where.

Again I believe you are mistaken. Sage can use their playready license which is cable labs certified but they still have to get their hardware/ and or streaming method certified I am pretty sure of this.

And I could be wrong but don't assume I don't "read up" my life is lived on boards and forums mostly.(sad but true)

[phenixdragon]

For Blu-ray, you install the codecs just like any other software.

Overall, do read up. Might learn a few things instead of trying to give me sh** when all I am saying is Sage can support CableCARD but they have yet to get behind it. I want to say that the details was revealed at CES 2009 but I can't seem to Google the correct words on the details about it.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by phenixdragon

For Blu-ray, you install the codecs just like any other software.

Overall, do read up. Might learn a few things instead of trying to give me sh** when all I am saying is Sage can support CableCARD but they have yet to get behind it. I want to say that the details was revealed at CES 2009 but I can't seem to Google the correct words on the details about it.

you started by giving me crap and you have yet to backup your facts. I would like to see a link detailing commercial skipping DRM'd recordings please. Here is what I can find from 2010 and I believe it still holds true as no external player can open a copy protected file from CableCard and this is hardly a solution if it is what you are refering too.

http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/p/84815/425208.aspx

here is another article again only refering to NON DRMD recordings

http://thegreenbutton.com/blogs/shad...cablecard.aspx

so I believe I am correct until you show my otherwise.

SageTV choices not to pay the money and go DRM and I don't blame them at all. They already have far more features than WMC users ever dream of. Also you can use Sagetv if they are not drm'd here is a success story right here
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55371
of course most cable companies choice to set the copy flag when the content provider doesn't. That is the cable companies fault.

The details of CES 2009 I believe you are refering to was cable card loosening the standars for computer certification (ie computers didn't have to be certified anymore) it meant sagetv could get certified if they wanted but meant nothing about it being free the cost is still there.

[panteragstk]

So. Sage may not support cablecard officially, but you can get it to work very well. Of course this all depends on your cable provider. Who do you use?

[Audacity]

PLUCKYHD,

Your argument of "I don't want CableCard, so it doesn't matter that SageTV doesn't support it" is pretty weak.

If SageTV supported CableCard then it would be a win for SageTV customers in the US. CableCard enables you to plug a single coax cable into the back of your HTPC and get 4 tuners worth of recording. You don't have to deal with IR blasters are a bunch of separate STBs hooked up with a rats-nest full of wires and the reliability problems inherent in that solution. I'm certain total power consumption of a Ceaton-equipped HTPC would also be significantly lower than the Hauppauge HD-PVR/Collosus based alternative plugged into 4 STBs.

By offering support for CableCard, SageTV wouldn't be forcing you to use it, but it would give you an option. Having more options is a Good Thing(tm).

I live in Canada, and I wish we had a CableCard option (our cable companies don't even support it). Oh well. I suppose it doesn't matter in the long term when we all move to streaming video over the internet for our "TV".

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by Audacity

PLUCKYHD,

Your argument of "I don't want CableCard, so it doesn't matter that SageTV doesn't support it" is pretty weak.

That wasn't my argument at all. My argument was that the awful WMC makes it not worth the effort. Also that sagetv is small and I imagine can't afford the licensing fee's to do it and still be profitable. Not to mention much of what we like (native dvd and blu ray support) would be brought to the attention of the studios if Sagetv become more mass. Don't know where you got the above statement was conveying that message. My message was simply WMC is weak and not worth it even for WMC. The poster I responded to was thinking SageTV didn't really have to do or pay anything to get cablecard support which is just wrong.

[Audacity]

I'll address your specific points then:

1. Lack of a true client platform on wmc
2. Xbox as extenders are worthless and can't play anything but tv would be barable if option 1 existed but that seems to never happen. "softsled" has been rumored for years now.

Those are really the same point - you want a software client. I agree that a software client would be nice as that is the reason I moved to SageTV. That said, a XBOX 360 as an extender can do more than just TV. It can play videos, music, pictures - just like SageTV can. Though not through the extender interface, the XBOX can access Netflix and if you are in the US you can get to Hulu.

Can't use commercial skip on any copy protected recordings. This is huge for me as the wife and i can't go back to not using com skip.

This may or may not be true (I haven't looked into it). Basically you're saying that CableCard users can't using ShowAnalyzer those recordings. Fair enough, but at least you can get CableCard recordings using 7MC. At least with 7MC you can get recordings via a CableCard tuner.

4. Lack of integrated blu ray playback sure there are third party solutions but they are a pia most of the time. This is where a true extender comes in true hd audio and video support is a must of any real extender.

But there are great 3rd party options for Blu-ray playback in 7MC, who cares of it's not "built in". In fact, if you are going to play a Blu-ray disc in SageTV wouldn't you need some sort of decryption tool, like AnyDVD HD?

7. SDV that right there requires 2 boxes to get 4 feeds if your cable company uses SDV (mine does) so if I am going to have to have to boxes anywyas miss well be sticking with sage. So it isn't always a clean and "simple" solution like some make it to be.

Really? One coax cable plugged into your HTPC and getting 4 tuners is pretty damn simple. Sure beats using a rats-nest of cables and multiple STBs + IR blasters.

8. Cable card technology has already been announced Dead by the FCC. Now it may be a couple of years before the replacement comes along but I am not buying any technology already announced dead in the water no thanks.

Well, we may as well move straight to streaming video over the internet, because that is the real future of TV.

9. WMC generates no money for MS. It is nothing more than a testing ground for media room and xbox live. Therefor I believe it will be killed off in futurie versions. MS has shown time and time again their focus is on xbox live not wmc.

It's a feature of Windows, makes Microsoft billions of dollars every quarter. You could also say that IE makes Microsoft no money, but they are actively developing that browser these days.

I predict that in Windows 8, Media Center will be featured prominently and will focus its next efforts on being a single unified interface for streaming video services.

I switched from 7MC to SageTV and the main goal of that transition was to gain a software client that I can run on a HTPC. The reason for this is because I find myself watching Hulu and Netflix more, and viewing broadcast TV less. These days it's about a 50/50 ratio. I find using devices that do not have a web browser in them extremely limited, so I moved away from XBOX 360 extenders towards HTPCs at all my TVs again, and I'm very happy with the result.

That said, there are things that I like better about 7MC over SageTV, specifically:

- Nice user interface animations/transitions
- Exellent addons (e.g. Media Browser)
- Not written in Java
- Excellent music player interface (with the zooming/panning cover art wallpaper)
- Nice "wall of photos" screensaver interface
- Organizes the recorded shows in a sane fashion. I can't seem to get SageTV to list the recorded shows, ordered by datetime of the recording. It groups by show, ordered by random().

The glaring omission for 7MC is the lack of a PC client. I agree, that totally sucks, and so I'm not using 7MC anymore. But, make no mistake: if MS came out with a software client, I'd probably convert back to Media Center because the "fit and finish" of the software is better. To be fair, with SageTV being written in Java that handicaps the developers to a certain extent. I don't think I've ever seen a Java application with a great UI that looks better than the UI of native applications.

[PLUCKYHD]

oh oh my turn

Originally Posted by Audacity

Those are really the same point - you want a software client. I agree that a software client would be nice as that is the reason I moved to SageTV. That said, a XBOX 360 as an extender can do more than just TV. It can play videos, music, pictures - just like SageTV can. Though not through the extender interface, the XBOX can access Netflix and if you are in the US you can get to Hulu.
.

agreed but like you said not throught he native WMC interface. Having to leave the interface is confusion to people and ruins the experience. The wierd and perhaps most stupid thing is that you can play some formats in the xbox dashboard you can't play through WMC. Very stupid and was always the most frustrating point to me. Point 1 and 2 weren't really the same I would rather have an extender that handles everything but I would have fallen back on a client but nether was available.

Originally Posted by Audacity

This may or may not be true (I haven't looked into it). Basically you're saying that CableCard users can't using ShowAnalyzer those recordings. Fair enough, but at least you can get CableCard recordings using 7MC. At least with 7MC you can get recordings via a CableCard tuner..

Correct if it is DRM (trust me it is true) you can't use commercial skip, by the same token you can get recordings via cablecard in sagetv with babgvant's app if they are not DRM. It isn't really sage's fault cable labs is such a b$tch.

Originally Posted by Audacity

But there are great 3rd party options for Blu-ray playback in 7MC, who cares of it's not "built in". In fact, if you are going to play a Blu-ray disc in SageTV wouldn't you need some sort of decryption tool, like AnyDVD HD?

To rip it yes but once it is ripped you are done. My problem is WMC lack to even respect blu ray formats natively they are still sore over losing the HD-DVD race if you ask me. To play a blu ray once ripped you need nothing but a extender in sagetv and you get glorious 1080p24fps hd audio support. What WMC extenders should but never will be.

Originally Posted by Audacity

Really? One coax cable plugged into your HTPC and getting 4 tuners is pretty damn simple. Sure beats using a rats-nest of cables and multiple STBs + IR blasters.
.

I agree it is simple and like I said a nice product. If it were offered on sagetv I wouldn't be able to do it I don't think as we are too addicted to commercial skip. But really isn't a ratsnest of cables anymore with hdmi and sattelit boxes and a good usbuirt. I would be using the same setup even if I was still using WMC for commercial skip.

Originally Posted by Audacity

Well, we may as well move straight to streaming video over the internet, because that is the real future of TV.
.

That's questionable. With providers starting to limit monthly usage and charge for overages they aren't going to let it happen any time soon. Ultimately they have they contol being the service provider of your internet (and having selling tv as well). To throttle what they want and do what they want sadly.

Originally Posted by Audacity

It's a feature of Windows, makes Microsoft billions of dollars every quarter. You could also say that IE makes Microsoft no money, but they are actively developing that browser these days.

Those are 2 different ballgames. IE is massively used WMC is a niche market.

Originally Posted by Audacity

I predict that in Windows 8, Media Center will be featured prominently and will focus its next efforts on being a single unified interface for streaming video services.

Do you need to wake up are you still sleeping? I heard the same thing and hoped the same thing from WMC xp to sp2 to vista to w7 never happens.

Originally Posted by Audacity

- Nice user interface animations/transitions.

I agree there and have always said that is their strongpoint they have smooth and nice animations and transitions.

Originally Posted by Audacity

- Exellent addons (e.g. Media Browser).

Sage is getting much better with Diamond, SMM, phoenix, and ortus.

Originally Posted by Audacity

- Not written in Java.

How is this a negative do you even code? Java is a universal code used like it or not it exist in most electronics devices these days from your tv to your blu ray player to your cell phone. It isn't going anywhere.

Originally Posted by Audacity

- Excellent music player interface (with the zooming/panning cover art wallpaper)
.

Agree the music interface is worlds beyond Sagetv(and most are) but to me I use sonos as tv isn't meant for music that is always been my take. I don't want to have the tv on to control music.

Originally Posted by Audacity

- Nice "wall of photos" screensaver interface.

Can';t argue that one bit that was one of my favorite new features early on in WM7 then they killed it on extenders and really hacked me off.

Originally Posted by Audacity

- Organizes the recorded shows in a sane fashion. I can't seem to get SageTV to list the recorded shows, ordered by datetime of the recording. It groups by show, ordered by random()..

Have you tried Diamond or changing the grouping/sorting. Diamond is really flexible allows for custom views and settings/filters/sorts per view. Phoenix and ortus will bring allot to the table here as well. With native season episode data now in the guide data things are going to get much better.

Originally Posted by Audacity

The glaring omission for 7MC is the lack of a PC client. I agree, that totally sucks, and so I'm not using 7MC anymore. But, make no mistake: if MS came out with a software client, I'd probably convert back to Media Center because the "fit and finish" of the software is better. To be fair, with SageTV being written in Java that handicaps the developers to a certain extent. I don't think I've ever seen a Java application with a great UI that looks better than the UI of native applications.

You realize sagetv v7 uses pretty much the same animation system that XBMC uses right? It is leaps and bounds above 6 unfortunetly there isn't much out yet to show it off but that will change with ortus and phoenix. The addins out now just stratch the surface of what the animation system can do. You have to remember sage uses studio on top of java to compile the UI. What you see now even diamond and SMM only scratch the surface of what the new animation system can do and that is mostly because they are coded for extenders not clients. On clients the animation system can go full blown with real time 3d rendering and all.

good discussion enjoying it

[Taddeusz]

Some of this discussion also begs the question. Of all the copies of Windows Vista and 7, how many actually have their Media Center active? I would hazard to guess very few. Media PC's are such a niche market. I doubt the number of people who actually use Windows Media Center would bring enough profit into Microsoft to pay for its development.

[panteragstk]

[samgreco]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

Some of this discussion also begs the question. Of all the copies of Windows Vista and 7, how many actually have their Media Center active? I would hazard to guess very few. Media PC's are such a niche market. I doubt the number of people who actually use Windows Media Center would bring enough profit into Microsoft to pay for its development.

I service PCs for a living. I have a lot of individual and small business customers. I would say that easily 90% of them have never heard of Media Center, HTPC, etc. 95% don't know they have it. Of the remain 5% maybe 0.5% have ever tried it.

We are a very small number. Which is why we have such hard time getting ANYTHING we really want. Like DRM free and open cable card and ....

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by samgreco

I service PCs for a living. I have a lot of individual and small business customers. I would say that easily 90% of them have never heard of Media Center, HTPC, etc. 95% don't know they have it. Of the remain 5% maybe 0.5% have ever tried it.

We are a very small number. Which is why we have such hard time getting ANYTHING we really want. Like DRM free and open cable card and ....

Yea, I worked at a place called Computer NERDZ a while back. I quit shortly after Vista came out. Of all the computers I worked on that actually came with MCE I never saw one that was actually being used for that purpose.

[Audacity]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

How is this a negative do you even code? Java is a universal code used like it or not it exist in most electronics devices these days from your tv to your blu ray player to your cell phone. It isn't going anywhere.

Yes, my professional background is in software development. Java's future isn't very bright. There was a period of time (late 90's, early 2000's) where a lot of new products were being built with Java. Java isn't getting very much developer attention these days on the client or server side of the fence. For example, most web applications are written on other platforms, not Java.

Java's strength is "write once, run anywhere". The problem is that every operating system you go with your Java software you're a second class citizen when you get there. In order to "run anywhere" that means your feature set is built on the lowest common denominator across all the computing platforms that you support. By contrast, native applications are able to take advantage of all the features that make a given platform special.

I should say that most of my criticism of Java is directed towards "Java the Platform", not "Java the Language". I could go on and on with the specific shortfalls in "Java the platform" like their half-ass implementation of generics, but I don't think this is the audience for those sorts of rants.

It is for these reasons why it takes a lot more "elbow grease" on the part of the developer to give your app the same fit-and-finish as a native app. This is a developer productivity cost which may or may not pay off with the benefit of being cross platform. In other words I hope SageTV LLC is making a lot of Linux and MacOS X sales, because us Windows users are paying for that benefit with software that isn't as polished as it otherwise would be given the same effort on the developers part.

Finally, there is the future. Oracle now owns Java. If you haven't noticed, Oracle isn't the most "community friendly" company in the world, and only major success in Java in recent years that I can think of (Google Android) is being sued by Oracle. I think there is a lesson here for Google: don't use anything that resembles Java. We'll see how this plays out in court, but you can bet new products and platforms that are in the design stage today aren't eager to get on the Java bus, because the first stop could be the courtroom. Just ask James Gosling and the people in the JCP (Java Community Process) how much they love Oracle.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by Audacity

For example, most web applications are written on other platforms, not Java.

You better tell that to my compay's sister company. Most of their internal web pages use Java. I think a little of it is done in PHP. However the greater portion of their code is Java.

[Audacity]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

You better tell that to my compay's sister company. Most of their internal web pages use Java. I think a little of it is done in PHP. However the greater portion of their code is Java.

Sure, there are anecdotal examples of sites built in Java, but the vast majority of webserver-side code is not in Java. For example, far more sites run PHP than Java. Plus, there is the issue of when was that code originally built? New projects are not selecting Java at anywhere the same rate as projects where the technology platform choice was made a decade ago.

[d2tw4all]

From my perspective, I think they should offer the option for a DRM model that will allow for cablecards to work or you can run it in unprotected mode that would allow legacy use. I'd really like to see cablecard support in Sage and am willing to sacrifice many of the options to have that, the need for a cable box, HDPVR, IRBlaster, etc is just so much less elegant than a straight cablecard solution...

Tom