Hardware and software suggestions

[rv55]

I switched from SageTV a few months ago because I could never get it to record reliably. So I bought a Beyonwiz DP-P2 thinking I would never have issues recording again. It records well but I was shocked to find it only recorded by time, not by program name. After suffering these last few months, missing countless shows, I'm thinking of coming back to Sage. I just need some advice. Sorry if this has been answered before but I couldn't find answers by searching.

So first question; what is the recommended hardware requirements for smooth and, more importantly, reliable recording and playback, if recording 2 or maybe 3 shows and watching a 3rd? My old hardware was limited to sd but I'd like to know what would be needed for hd. I'm only going to have the single dedicated device, no transmitting to other rooms.

Secondly, I see SageTV 7 is available for windows or linux. Which one is better? Does 1 provide benefits over the other? Or does SageTV perform the same in both?

[jptheripper]

I am surprised about your recording troubles. Sagetv has been very reliable for me.

I would recommend Windows over Linux unless you are a linux guru and willing to dedicate the time.

For recording, SD or HD? Capturing from a setop box? QAM? OTA?

Comskipping?

[rv55]

I asked about linux because I thought maybe it was less bloated than windows so maybe Sage might run better. But maybe it doesn't.

Some of the channels here (in Australia) have different content on the HD channels than the SD channels so, ideally, I'd like to record them too. As to the recording quality, I'm happy to record in a lower quality but wouldn't that mean trans-coding?

I'm used to using pci cards because I always thought that gives the best performance but am open to suggestions if you think they will work better. I only want to record OTA.

I'm happy to skip commercial manually while watching the recording. I don't see the need for anything else.

[jnmfox]

Are you building a new PC or using an existing one? Considered getting a HD300 for playback?

It doesn't take much horsepower for recording, even in HD, but you do need some CPU power if you plan on watching live TV.

For OTA the Silicon Dust HD tuners are great.
http://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun/dvbt/

Edit: also see this discussion about Hardware: http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54771

[wrems]

For best results, dedicate your pc to being a sage server only. Fresh OS install too. Then keep it lean and mean.

You can't go wrong with a HD Homerun, HDHR. They're very good OTA tuners. Then get an extender either HD200 or HD300. HD300 preferred but you never know if someone is selling an HD200 on ebay or something for a good price...

Some other things that will help but not necessarily necessary right away would be a gigabit switch. It will help keep your network running smoothly. If you pair the switch with an Intel NIC you'll be golden. Get a descent switch, something like this will do you good: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833316211 .

[rv55]

jnmfox,

I never used a HD200 or HD300. Do you think playback may have been the cause of my bad recordings? I seem to remember it would struggle to record 2 shows at once even if I wasn't watching a recording. And it definitely couldn't record HD even though my tuners are hd tuners.

As to buying new hardware, I'm considering it, hence this post. But I need to know the hardware will work with no problems like the DP-P2. I can't afford to shell out the money and then have it not work.

The HDhomerun sounds interesting but I see a few problems with it.
1. An extra device to add to the clutter.
2. Only 2 tuners.
3. Being able to watch tv on any computer is not really useful to me.

That link, and others I've seen, makes me wonder; do dedicated PVRs like tivo, topfield and beyonwiz use hardware that powerful? If not, why can't software like SageTV work on comparable hardware?


wrems,

I don't really like the idea of having 3 devices for my solution. Do you think that will be the only way i can get smooth reliable performance? I guess the HDHomerun might be good if you have one of those tiny PCs with only 1 PCI slot. Maybe you could put a tuner in the pci slot and SageTV could use that and the 2 in the HDHomerun for a total of 3. Can SageTV do that? But if I'm going to use a bigger pc that has the slots, why not just use internal tuners? The HD200 or 300 is sounding like a good idea, especially if it can save me buying a new computer.

I assume your comments about the switch are in regards to using the hd200 or 300 or is it in regards to the HDHomerun(another reason not to like it)? Anyway, as the only user I shouldn't really need it. Although I do have a gigabit switch, I'm not sure if it works.

I have LOTS of NICs. Usually I just use the onboard one. Why are you recommending an Intel one?

__________________________________________
Here is my hardware; what I remember.
MB: Asus P4S800
CPU: P4 2.4ghz I think
RAM: 1g
Video card: Radeon HD 3650 based card with 512mb ram (AGP)
HDs: The OS was on a smaller older drive 40 to 80g
recordings was on a 160g Seagate Baracuda 7200.
Tuners: FusionHDTV DVB-T Plus and Twinhan VisionPlus

[MattHelm]

Originally Posted by rv55

That link, and others I've seen, makes me wonder; do dedicated PVRs like tivo, topfield and beyonwiz use hardware that powerful? If not, why can't software like SageTV work on comparable hardware?

They have VERY low end CPU's (but getting faster every year), but then have custom hardware to do recording/encoding and (like the HD300's) playback/decoding, so just like the HD300, the CPU only does the UI.

Also, they aren't "Systems", but embedded computers, that have limited or no expandability, where a SageTV system can be added to. (I think someone has 20+ hard drives and some have 10+ tuners). Can any of those systems support that?

BTW, I ran a SageTV system on a single core celeron (old kind) for years with 3 tuners, so to do the basics, you don't need much of a system.

[jnmfox]

I don't think that playback was the cause of your bad recordings but if you are looking for "reliable recording and playback" use you computer for recording and the HD300 for playback. That way you don't have to have your PC connected to you TV, just a small low-power HD300 that just works.

Originally Posted by rv55

The HDhomerun sounds interesting but I see a few problems with it.
1. An extra device to add to the clutter.
2. Only 2 tuners.
3. Being able to watch tv on any computer is not really useful to me.

1. I like being able to put my tuners and all the cables in the basement away from my PC so my PC isn't a cluttered. My HDHR, all the OTA cabling, and Comcast modem are all in my basement connected to a switch. That way all those extra cables can be out of the way and just have two cat 5 cables running up to my router.
2. Most PC tuners have one or two tuners, if you need more add more HDHRs.
3. I don't either but it is an option.

You will have to figure-out what works best for you, the tuners you have now may work with Sage.

Are you using Windows XP? What specific issues were you running into before while trying to record?
As far as hardware the P4 is an old CPU and 1GB of RAM is really limited. You could try to install the 21 day Sage trial again to see if you are able to record. If you are still having problems you could try to add more RAM (DDR RAM isn't very common anymore) or look to building a new PC.

Not sure the hardware prices in Australia but in US dollars it would cost about $450 to build a new AMD PC or about $530 for an Intel one with an i3 CPU. The SageTV software would be $80 or if you do go with the HD300 it would be $200.

[MattHelm]

Originally Posted by jnmfox

Not sure the hardware prices in Australia ...

Will the HDHR work in Australia?

[jnmfox]

Originally Posted by MattHelm

Will the HDHR work in Australia?

See link

Originally Posted by jnmfox

For OTA the Silicon Dust HD tuners are great.
http://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun/dvbt/

[rv55]

Originally Posted by jnmfox

Are you using Windows XP? What specific issues were you running into before while trying to record?

Currently it has Windows 7. I also had problems when I had Windows XP installed. It wouldn't record properly. There would be skips in playback or the file wouldn't be playable at all. This mainly happened if I was watching something while it was recording but also happened to a lesser extent when I wasn't watching.

Originally Posted by jnmfox

or look to building a new PC.

Which brings me back to one of my original questions. Assuming I want 3 tuners and lets say i use a HD300, what PC hardware is recommended for smooth reliable recording? MattHelm said he ran 3 tuners on an old celeron. I wonder if it was reliable or not. If I'm not going to need PCI slots, I like the idea of one of those mini pcs. Maybe one pre build specifically for Home Theater. Anyone use one of those?

But to tell you the truth, I still like internal tuners better. If I want at least 3 tuners, I would have to get 2 HDHRs which would just clutter up my room too much and i still think it should perform better, shouldn't it?

Originally Posted by jnmfox

The SageTV software would be $80 or if you do go with the HD300 it would be $200.

Hmm.. I see sellers of the HDHomerun in Australia but I don't see HD300. Do Sage sell HD300s for Australia?

[MattHelm]

Originally Posted by rv55

MattHelm said he ran 3 tuners on an old celeron. I wonder if it was reliable or not.

It ran for years. But it was SD, not HD. Now saying that, I've run 4 HDHRs and played 1 back local and 1 by HD100 all at the same time. That was with 2 "green" drives.

Originally Posted by rv55

But to tell you the truth, I still like internal tuners better. If I want at least 3 tuners, I would have to get 2 HDHRs which would just clutter up my room too much and i still think it should perform better, shouldn't it?

The HDHR is the best (except for multipath, which is mainly a ATSC problem) receiver for the US HDTV, IMHO. Not sure, but I bet the DVBT version is great too.


I don't see any modern computer having problems recording HD. Most people only have problems with playback. See my signature for some basic systems. None do com skip, but mostly record HS only.

BTW, did you format your recording drive with 64K blocks?

[MattHelm]

Originally Posted by rv55

... I would have to get 2 HDHRs which would just clutter up my room too much

You do know how large those tuners are? The OLD ones are about the size of a router or 5 port switch, and the new ones are even smaller!

And they just need a cable hook up, and Ethernet cable?

[rv55]

Originally Posted by MattHelm

You do know how large those tuners are? The OLD ones are about the size of a router or 5 port switch, and the new ones are even smaller!

And they just need a cable hook up, and Ethernet cable?

And Power cord?

Doesn't matter how big they are, an extra 2 devices with 3 cables each is significant.

So by 'best' are you saying you think HDHRs will record more reliably than internal tuners?

I see in your sig that your server 1 only has 1g of ram. That would suggest that ram was not my issue. More likely the cpu was. Or maybe it was the older technology altogether.

Which makes me want to ask, has anyone bought a new (ie. new technology) but cheap computer recently with multiple tuners to run sage? Did it work well? Maybe all I need to do is by a new computer?

[jnmfox]

Originally Posted by rv55

And Power cord?

Doesn't matter how big they are, an extra 2 devices with 3 cables each is significant.

So by 'best' are you saying you think HDHRs will record more reliably than internal tuners?

I see in your sig that your server 1 only has 1g of ram. That would suggest that ram was not my issue. More likely the cpu was. Or maybe it was the older technology altogether.

Which makes me want to ask, has anyone bought a new (ie. new technology) but cheap computer recently with multiple tuners to run sage? Did it work well? Maybe all I need to do is by a new computer?

That is the great thing about HDHRs is you can put them somewhere out of the way and just have 1 ethernet cable running to your switch or router.

Have you tried recording with Sage recently? It could be issues with the CPU, HD, RAM, tuners, or something else. If you haven't tried recording lately try it again and monitor your CPU and RAM usage to see if you can find the problem.

What is your definition of a cheap new computer? If you are building something new a quad core AMD processor or Intel i3 processor is where I would start. Probably more than you need but it will keep your options open in the future. If you want cheap go dual core AMD or a Intel Core2Duo (which is what I have for my family PC + Sage server).
I like mini PCs too but the problem with a mini PC for a Sage server is HD space. You will want a PC case that has space for a lot of HDs. They have a few like that but they obviously end-up being bigger because of it. But if you just use your PC as a normal PC plus a Sage server then use the HD300s the size of the PC may not be as important.

[jnmfox]

Originally Posted by rv55

Doesn't matter how big they are..

That's NOT What He Said

Originally Posted by jnmfox

the size...may not be as important.

And That's NOT What She Said

(and yes I just quoted myself or masterquoted)

[MattHelm]

Originally Posted by rv55

So by 'best' are you saying you think HDHRs will record more reliably than internal tuners?

Again, I only know the US one, but IMHO, it is the best on the market.

Originally Posted by rv55

I see in your sig that your server 1 only has 1g of ram. That would suggest that ram was not my issue. More likely the cpu was. Or maybe it was the older technology altogether.

Oops, that is old, need to update the RAM to 2G, but yes, at first I only had 1G, and could use even less, as it has shared memory with the on-board graphics. Plus I run a lot of programs other than SageTV on mine.

Originally Posted by rv55

Which makes me want to ask, has anyone bought a new (ie. new technology) but cheap computer recently with multiple tuners to run sage? Did it work well? Maybe all I need to do is by a new computer?

What do you have?

Any newer chipset and even cheapest dual cores can handle SageTV by itself. Like a i3, Core Duo or any dual Athlon/7xx or higher chipset. They don't even make the dual core CPUs listed in my signature anymore, and those 2 units do more recording than mine (first one).

For a server only, no real playback(testing/setup):
MB
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128455
or
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128439

and this CPU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819103926
If you can find an older/cheaper AM3 socket CPU, as long as it's dual core, you'd be fine.
(for Windoze, I'd always pick a dual core)

[rv55]

I haven't used my sage pc for about 4 to 5 months. It's currently missing it's power supply (scavenged to fix gaming pc) so I can't test it. It has a P4 as I've said before and it's really starting to look like all my problems was with the older hardware. I'm starting to suspect that as long as it's a new computer, it will work fine. Although I might need aHD300 to make sure playback doesn't interfere with recordings.

When it comes to mini pcs, 1 hard drive is fine for me (unless I want to raid) so it's still a posibility. And it will be a dedicated sage pc. I wont be running anything else on it.

[jnmfox]

Originally Posted by rv55

I haven't used my sage pc for about 4 to 5 months. It's currently missing it's power supply (scavenged to fix gaming pc) so I can't test it. It has a P4 as I've said before and it's really starting to look like all my problems was with the older hardware. I'm starting to suspect that as long as it's a new computer, it will work fine. Although I might need aHD300 to make sure playback doesn't interfere with recordings.

When it comes to mini pcs, 1 hard drive is fine for me (unless I want to raid) so it's still a posibility. And it will be a dedicated sage pc. I wont be running anything else on it.

Considered using your gaming PC also as your Sage Server?

They do have smaller PC with a lot of HD space.
http://www.silentpcreview.com/lianli-pcq08

[rv55]

Originally Posted by jnmfox

Considered using your gaming PC also as your Sage Server?

No not really. I don't want ANYTHING I'm doing on the pc to interfer with recordings. Plus I'd like to be able to switch the pc off. Whereas my sagetv I'll probably leave on all the time. Hopefully it will be a quieter device.

Originally Posted by jnmfox

They do have smaller PC with a lot of HD space.
http://www.silentpcreview.com/lianli-pcq08

Yes that's small but I think I'd look for a case with an ir sensor, maybe even an LCD like my old case. I've seen mention of AsRock PCs. They look nice. But maybe I could use my old case. It's big but it does have the LCD and IR and other nice home theater features. It would probably cost a pretty penny to buy another case like that but smaller. And I do really want to use internal tuners. I'd also have room for more than 1 hd if I wanted to raid. Is there any benefit to raiding for recordings?