Kill-O-Watt readings for HTPC

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by wrems

What's the break-even after thieves or vandals get to them? They're going to be popular targets.

Wow - do you live in a really bad neighborhood? If so, you may be right that they aren't good for you.

- Andy

[wrems]

No, but I'm thinking that they'll be precious commodities for some. Either to mitigate their own energy costs or to sell for some quick cash. I could be dead wrong. It's just something I've wondered about with these expensive panels.

My friends neighborhood has had a rash of burglaries over the past year, in a fairly descent neighborhood, and he saw some south of the border folks running off with the AC unit, in broad-daylight. It took them less than 2 minutes to grab the unit and get in their truck and drive off. They have the advantage of looking like they're landscaping, painting or roofing the house with their trucks, ladders and gear. By the time he figured out what was actually happening he called the cops but they don't care about burglaries in the metro Atlanta area.

No one is out of reach of crime. If someone has something someone else wants they will devise a way to get it. Criminals are crafty. If it comes here I have two large dogs and an assortment of firearms ready and waiting

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by davephan

I was also thinking about getting a meter from the library or buying one to figure out how much the computers are costing. I normally have three computers running 24 x 7. I also have a newer and an older refrigerator. I've heard older refrigerators and draw a lot of power and the break-in cost of buying a new refrigerator might be only a few years of operation.

I've been hoping there would be a long term solution to the high cost of electricity. There was a report about "Bloom Energy" on 60 Minutes that was a solution to that problem to take homes off the electric grid at at a competitive cost. I've heard nothing about "Bloom Energy" since
then.

Dave

My HTPC has an AMD 65w processor, two drives and a 300w power supply - runs 24/7 and costs $15 month to run, according to Kill-O-Watt, based on .23 cents kwh (because SDGE California are greedy little s#%$heads - as compared to Ontario Hydro One, where it's closer to .09 cents per kwh).
So, three computers at that level would cost $45 month in my hood'.
And it gets higher per kwh as you pass certain kwh thresholds.
Hence, a plugin for Sage that would enable wakeup of PC before a recording would be awfully nice.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

Hence, a plugin for Sage that would enable wakeup of PC before a recording would be awfully nice.

SageTV already does that. There is a PDF manual installed with SageTV -- check out the "Using Windows Power Management with SageTV" section on p. 21. (I'm not sure about non-Windows systems)

- Andy

[ericscottf]

I feel stupid saying this, but remember, folks, consider ROI when buying new things.
If the new "efficient" power supply or hard drive you buy costs you $100, and saves you $1 a month (remember, it is more efficient, not zero watt) on your bill, you're probably not going to see an ROI before the thing dies or you upgrade.

someone mentioned a 50 watt drop only by underclocking the processor? That sounds inconceivable. 2-10 watts, MAYBE. modern day processors only draw 40 to 100w.

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by Opus4

SageTV already does that. There is a PDF manual installed with SageTV -- check out the "Using Windows Power Management with SageTV" section on p. 21. (I'm not sure about non-Windows systems)

- Andy

thanks. didn't quite understand that...will read again. anything that enables HD200 to awake a server?

[Fuzzy]

HD200? no. But the HD300 supposedly added this feature.

[Bagal]

Originally Posted by ericscottf

I feel stupid saying this, but remember, folks, consider ROI when buying new things.
If the new "efficient" power supply or hard drive you buy costs you $100, and saves you $1 a month (remember, it is more efficient, not zero watt) on your bill, you're probably not going to see an ROI before the thing dies or you upgrade.

someone mentioned a 50 watt drop only by underclocking the processor? That sounds inconceivable. 2-10 watts, MAYBE. modern day processors only draw 40 to 100w.

I completely agree with you, if you're the sort of person that upgrades on a regular basis anyway then it's unlikely you're going to see any ROI and as you've also pointed out modern processors are fairly low power anyway so again you're not going to see huge drops just by getting a new CPU, however if like me you decide to build a server using old parts (and who doesn't want to recycle?) you could find yourself worse off than if you'd just bought new kit in the first place.

As I said in a previous post my P4 server was chewing through 120w at idle, last time I checked my current server was using about 60w at idle, based on my (fairly conservative) calculations when I upgraded it, it was going to take 18months for me to see any ROI and that 18months was up 4 months ago, so the way I see it, I've been making money for 4 months, go me!

[rtengvad]

Originally Posted by ericscottf

I feel stupid saying this, but remember, folks, consider ROI when buying new things.
If the new "efficient" power supply or hard drive you buy costs you $100, and saves you $1 a month (remember, it is more efficient, not zero watt) on your bill, you're probably not going to see an ROI before the thing dies or you upgrade.

someone mentioned a 50 watt drop only by underclocking the processor? That sounds inconceivable. 2-10 watts, MAYBE. modern day processors only draw 40 to 100w.

I saved 15w changing my dead power supply to a new 80+ silver. The extra cost for the efficient power supply had a pay back time of only 1 year. Of course in Europe we pay much more for the energy but for me it was a very good investment.

My system consumes 135 w total, i.e. included server, Dlink router, fiber box and Dlink 16 port gb switch.

Dlink has made a green line that cost the same as other similar products but is much more energy efficient.

Rasmus

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

HD200? no. But the HD300 supposedly added this feature.

thanks, I'll look into that as well

[rtengvad]

If you have a Squeezebox you can use that to send a WOL command. Or you can use Autoshutdownmanager to specify stay-awake-times. It works very well.

Rasmus

[Savage1701]

Originally Posted by ericscottf

I feel stupid saying this, but remember, folks, consider ROI when buying new things.
If the new "efficient" power supply or hard drive you buy costs you $100, and saves you $1 a month (remember, it is more efficient, not zero watt) on your bill, you're probably not going to see an ROI before the thing dies or you upgrade.

someone mentioned a 50 watt drop only by underclocking the processor? That sounds inconceivable. 2-10 watts, MAYBE. modern day processors only draw 40 to 100w.

That was me with an ancient Socket 775 Extreme Edition. I dropped the FSB from 133 to 100. The thing slowed down, but the wattage used dropped by about 30%. And remember, no killer fast video card on this or any add-on cards, so the processor is the huge hog in this case (I think an 775 EE has a TDP of 130 watts and no power saver back then except how I did it). And I only went from drawing 150 down to about 105 watts. I agree - you already get that with modern cpu's doing SpeedStep, core idling, etc. I only kicked that note in because a lot of people in here post about using old P4 hand-me-downs that also drew about the same and had no energy management abilities. What I did has no real bearing for a modern cpu or MB.

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by wrems

No one is out of reach of crime. If someone has something someone else wants they will devise a way to get it. Criminals are crafty. If it comes here I have two large dogs and an assortment of firearms ready and waiting

OT, but this caught my eye. Two years ago two thugs stole my car in broad daylight from the parking lot of the local YMCA I attend. One of the offenders was a Y member, and he checked in using his ID card before stealing the car. (No joke.) It took the cops about 15 seconds to figure out who did it.

[ccsmoke]

OT, One of the things I would recommend, if haven't already, is to check with you local electric company about effiency programs. Most offer a control on some of your 220 for a discounted rate. Typically control your HVAC like turning off your ac a few minutes out of every hour during peak times.

I pay .095 per KWH and .074 per KWH on the controlled program.

[davephan]

Originally Posted by ccsmoke

OT, One of the things I would recommend, if haven't already, is to check with you local electric company about effiency programs. Most offer a control on some of your 220 for a discounted rate. Typically control your HVAC like turning off your ac a few minutes out of every hour during peak times.

I pay .095 per KWH and .074 per KWH on the controlled program.

Another way you can save money on electricity is to sign up for a "Saver Switch" if it offered in your area. The "Saver Switch" can cycle your air conditioner compressor on and off every 20 minutes during the summer months. Excel Energy gives customers in our area a 15% discount on all electricity, not just the power used by the central air conditioner, from June through September. You get the discount even if you don't use the central air conditioner. There have been long time periods where Excel Energy hasn't even activated the "Saver Switch" power cycling, and still gives you the 15% discount on all power consumed during those four summer months.

On very hot days, it can make some difference in cooling capacity. If you turn your AC several hours earlier or leave it on when there are several sequential hot days, the air conditioning still keeps the house cool, even though the compressor is being cycled on an off.

Here's a video that shows how the system functions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3-y4KUmCVM

Here's an article that talks about the "Saver Switch" power cycling wasn't activated for several years, although the customers still received the discounts:
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/dis...8/xcel-switch/


Dave

[tmiranda]

@ davephan - Minnesota ... Air Conditioning .... really? You need that for like 2 days every year right?

[davephan]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

@ davephan - Minnesota ... Air Conditioning .... really? You need that for like 2 days every year right?

It does get hot and humid in Minnesota in the summer at times. Not all summer, but it can happen for many weeks during the summer. The temperatures can be quite extreme from the winters to the summers in the northern plains of the US. We live on a small lake, so we have a micro-climate in the back yard near the lake that is cooler than the surrounding area. However, on really hot and humid days, it is unbearable even by the lake. Some areas in Minnesota near Lake Superior are rarely hot, since Lake Superior acts like a giant air conditioner. Lake Superior is deep and the lake is in the upper 30's or low 40's all year round, much cooler than our small lake.

Minnesota has a reputation for being cold and snowy most of the year, but the summers can be very hot and humid for many weeks of the summer. There are some spectacular summer days too, low humidity with 60 - 80 degree temperatures. I seem to be stuck at work during many of those really nice days. In the past 15 years, the winters have been much less severe than it used to be about 25 to 50 years ago. You might need the air conditioning in the Minneapolis - St Paul area about 50 - 60 days during the summer. Although we have had cooler summers where we didn't have to use the air conditioning much during a summer, but that's a pretty rare year.

Dave

[tvmaster2]

Originally Posted by davephan

It does get hot and humid in Minnesota in the summer at times. Not all summer, but it can happen for many weeks during the summer. The temperatures can be quite extreme from the winters to the summers in the northern plains of the US. We live on a small lake, so we have a micro-climate in the back yard near the lake that is cooler than the surrounding area. However, on really hot and humid days, it is unbearable even by the lake. Some areas in Minnesota near Lake Superior are rarely hot, since Lake Superior acts like a giant air conditioner. Lake Superior is deep and the lake is in the upper 30's or low 40's all year round, much cooler than our small lake.

Minnesota has a reputation for being cold and snowy most of the year, but the summers can be very hot and humid for many weeks of the summer. There are some spectacular summer days too, low humidity with 60 - 80 degree temperatures. I seem to be stuck at work during many of those really nice days. In the past 15 years, the winters have been much less severe than it used to be about 25 to 50 years ago. You might need the air conditioning in the Minneapolis - St Paul area about 50 - 60 days during the summer. Although we have had cooler summers where we didn't have to use the air conditioning much during a summer, but that's a pretty rare year.

Dave

yup - I lived in Toronto, Canada. In summer, I needed an air conditioner all summer long, and most of spring as well.
but here in Southern California, I only need AC three days per year

[davephan]

Originally Posted by tvmaster2

yup - I lived in Toronto, Canada. In summer, I needed an air conditioner all summer long, and most of spring as well.
but here in Southern California, I only need AC three days per year

That's surprising! I thought that Toronto would have some cooling effect by Lake Ontario. We don't need that much air conditioning in Minnesota. It might be about half of the summer and not much of the spring and fall.

That's surprising too that southern California doesn't need much air conditioning. I've heard Jay Leno talk about the hot weather many times. I know it is pretty dry there and its never been hot the many times when we visited the area.

I know the electricity is about double our rates in California and four times in Hawaii. I don't know if our utility offers a "Saver Switch" with a discount on electric rates. Our "Saver Switch" is a good deal because of the discount on all the electricity used during the four months. I know some areas only give you a discount on only the electricity used by the air conditioner or a fixed discount dollar amount.

I think solar would be more attractive in places like Hawaii and California where the electric rates are higher, especially if they are tiered rates controlled by the amount of electricity used.


Dave

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by davephan

That's surprising! I thought that Toronto would have some cooling effect by Lake Ontario. We don't need that much air conditioning in Minnesota. It might be about half of the summer and not much of the spring and fall.

That's surprising too that southern California doesn't need much air conditioning. I've heard Jay Leno talk about the hot weather many times. I know it is pretty dry there and its never been hot the many times when we visited the area.

I know the electricity is about double our rates in California and four times in Hawaii. I don't know if our utility offers a "Saver Switch" with a discount on electric rates. Our "Saver Switch" is a good deal because of the discount on all the electricity used during the four months. I know some areas only give you a discount on only the electricity used by the air conditioner or a fixed discount dollar amount.

I think solar would be more attractive in places like Hawaii and California where the electric rates are higher, especially if they are tiered rates controlled by the amount of electricity used.


Dave

There are a LOT of different climates in Southern California. As for solar in california, it is a lot more attractive here, but more so because of the sun strength than the electric rates. Each given square foot of panel is going to produce a considerable more amount of sun over the year than other areas of the country. As for the tiered rates, if you install solar, you will most likely be better off switching to a time-of-day rate, where daytime usage/generation is charged at a peak rate, and nightime usage is charged at a much lower rate.