OTA lineups have changed: EPG lineup reconfigure for OTA tuners

[davenlr]

OK, My satellite tuner (TT3200) which was using the "old lineup" now thinks its an OTA tuner, and all my satellite (FTA) channels are gone, replaced with local digital channels it cannot even tune. What do I do to get my satellite channels back? They are all using EPG from various cities around the US...

Nevermind...I followed the instructions to the letter, and my HDHomerun only would show about 4 of the scanned 29 channels in the guide, and with the loss of all my FTA channels, I just did a system restore, and will ignore the system messages.

[John.Kelly]

I have two tuners and use OTA transmissions. Cable Channels in the Minneapolis area do not have all these channels.

Since 2/18/2011, once a day I have received this system errror:

"Warning - Channel Lineup Lost from EPG Server
The lineup "Minneapolis-St. Paul - Digital Broadcast" no longer exists on the EPG server. Updates to this lineup will no longer occur."

Quite frankly, the instructions belows seem very odd. It is obvious that something SageTV has done has caused this problem. I could hardly call the instructions below a "fix" - maybe a workaround would be a better description. I, like another user, want to know when you are going to "fix" this problem.

By the way, I have found that in spite of the above error, received once a day, I continue to get the program data for all my OTA channels in my "Minneapolis-St.Paul - Digital Broadcast" lineup.

In other words, I'm not doing anything until you guys FIX this problem!

Originally Posted by Opus4

There have been some EPG server changes, so what you are seeing is normal for an OTA lineup.

All you will need to do is reconfigure the EPG Lineup via the Source Details menu for that tuner -- you don't need to reconfigure the whole source; just the EPG Lineup. Again: Do not remove the tuner; just choose the "EPG Lineup" item on the tuner's Source Details menu. If you run into an issue trying to select a new lineup, just leave the lineup selection menu and nothing will change. Once you select a lineup, though, the lineup change will be applied.

Then, instead of choosing Local Broadcast for an OTA tuner, choose Cable or Satellite, enter your zip/postal code, then choose Digital Broadcast (there is also Analog Broadcast, but I'm assuming you don't want that one).

You may need to do a new channel scan to make sure all the channels are mapped properly.

The basic steps are:

1. From the Main Menu, go to Setup -> Setup Video Sources, then choose an OTA tuner (used to receive broadcast signals via an antenna).
2. On the tuner's Source Details menu, choose EPG Lineup on the right side of the screen.
3. Choose to use US or Canada guide data (or use an existing lineup if you've already reconfigured the EPG lineup for another OTA tuner).
4. For the next menu's Program Guide Data Provider type, choose "Cable or Satellite". Do not choose "Local Broadcast"; it will just tell you to back up a couple menus if you do.
5. Enter your zip/postal code.
6. Choose the Analog or Digital Broadcast lineup for your zip/postal code.
7. On the Channel Setup menu, perform a channel scan.

And, all OTA channels included in Zap2it's database are now included, not just those on cable/sat lineups.

Remember: for all EPG configuration, go through the cable/sat option & enter your zip/postal code.


While reconfiguring the EPG provider, if you see a blank list of providers, then try again and check this FAQ, including these items:

• Make sure SageTV has access through your firewall to talk to the EPG server. See: What ports do I need to open in my firewall for SageTV?
  
  
• If there is no firewall issue, check that a plugin has not modified the epg/epg_import_plugin property. If that property is not blank, then close SageTV, remove the line from Sage.properties, and restart SageTV.

- Andy

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by John.Kelly

In other words, I'm not doing anything until you guys FIX this problem!

If you're waiting for the city-based lineups to come back, that's not going to happen. The whole point is to phase those out and do everything by postal code.

If you do nothing, you'll continue to receive EPG data for the channels currently in your lineup (as indicated earlier in the thread). But if you want to keep current with changes to your lineup (i.e. addition, removal, or renumbering of channels), then you'll need to switch over to a zipcode-based OTA lineup at some point.

Granted, the UI for doing so in V7.0 and earlier is a bit quirky, requiring you to go in through the Cable/Satellite path to get to the OTA lineups. But that's already been addressed in the V7.1 beta. Other than that, there isn't anything that needs fixing.

[timg11]

The daily EPG errors still persist even after you upgrade to 7.1 beta. You still have to go through the fix procedure, but the steps are a bit different with the 7.1 beta:

1) Setup Video Sources
2) SiliconDust HDHomeRun
3) EPG Lineup
4) Use US, Canada...
5) Enter (or accept existing) ZIP code)
6) choose provider (Digital Broadcast - ZIP) (OTA is mixed in same list as cable and satellite)
7) perform channel scan (might as well do it now, or it will keep asking)

[davenlr]

Well, I am not using Beta 7, and when I followed the instructions posted above in the quote, my HDHomerun only showed 4 of my 26 OTA stations in the guide (and it found all 26 on the scan). There is something wrong here. Perhaps someone could address exactly how to do this with an HDHomerun, so it will show all the channels it scans.

I even tried deleting it, and installing it as a new tuner, and it STILL only showed a couple channels in the guide.

[robschulbaum]

I'll second that. Still on Sage version 6, using HDHomeRun and reporting the same problem. Followed the instructions, but most of the stations I got 2 weeks ago no longer show up on new scans. What's the solution?

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by davenlr

Well, I am not using Beta 7, and when I followed the instructions posted above in the quote, my HDHomerun only showed 4 of my 26 OTA stations in the guide (and it found all 26 on the scan). There is something wrong here. Perhaps someone could address exactly how to do this with an HDHomerun, so it will show all the channels it scans.

I even tried deleting it, and installing it as a new tuner, and it STILL only showed a couple channels in the guide.

Every channel enabled in Channel Setup should be listed in the Program Guide. Look for the station names under a different channel number, or sort the guide by channel name. See p. 53 of the SageTV PDF manual (the Program Guide section) about how channels on multiple lineups may be listed under a number other than what you expect.

- Andy

[davenlr]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Every channel enabled in Channel Setup should be listed in the Program Guide. Look for the station names under a different channel number, or sort the guide by channel name. See p. 53 of the SageTV PDF manual (the Program Guide section) about how channels on multiple lineups may be listed under a number other than what you expect.

- Andy

Well, they were not there. For example, it scanned 2-1, 2-2, 2-3, and 2-4. The guide only showed 2-2,2-3,and 2-4. 2-1 was missing. It was checked in the setup. Ill try this one more time this weekend and report what happens. Thanks for the reply.

[Narflex]

Originally Posted by davenlr

Well, they were not there. For example, it scanned 2-1, 2-2, 2-3, and 2-4. The guide only showed 2-2,2-3,and 2-4. 2-1 was missing. It was checked in the setup. Ill try this one more time this weekend and report what happens. Thanks for the reply.

Then I'm 99% sure you have channel 2-1 enabled on another lineup. More than likely on your DirecTV lineup, and then SageTV is choosing to use that channel number in the EPG. You could of course change the logical channel number on the DirecTV lineup to be 2-1, and then it would show up in the EPG that way (that's actually what I do, I remap the broadcast networks logical channels so they're the numbers I expect them to be since FIOS puts the HD locals in the 500's).

[davenlr]

Originally Posted by Narflex

Then I'm 99% sure you have channel 2-1 enabled on another lineup. More than likely on your DirecTV lineup, and then SageTV is choosing to use that channel number in the EPG. You could of course change the logical channel number on the DirecTV lineup to be 2-1, and then it would show up in the EPG that way (that's actually what I do, I remap the broadcast networks logical channels so they're the numbers I expect them to be since FIOS puts the HD locals in the 500's).

I upgraded to 7.1 beta to eliminate confusion. After performing the video source epg change, you are correct, indeed all the channels are still there, except now, for example, channel 11-2 is showing as channel 233, which is where (I think) it is located on the Comcast lineup. I did hit remap, and typed 11-2 and it moved. Question is, if I have two HDHomerun tuners, and One cable box tuner, and all the 11-2s are listed as one single entry, how can I tell it to record on the OTA tuner and not the cable box? This is really quite confusing. First because it mapped the channel to the same channel number as another tuner using a totally different lineup, and second, because now I have (or havent found) a way to differentiate which tuner I am selecting. Will give it some run time and see what happens.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by davenlr

I upgraded to 7.1 beta to eliminate confusion. After performing the video source epg change, you are correct, indeed all the channels are still there, except now, for example, channel 11-2 is showing as channel 233, which is where (I think) it is located on the Comcast lineup. I did hit remap, and typed 11-2 and it moved. Question is, if I have two HDHomerun tuners, and One cable box tuner, and all the 11-2s are listed as one single entry, how can I tell it to record on the OTA tuner and not the cable box? This is really quite confusing. First because it mapped the channel to the same channel number as another tuner using a totally different lineup, and second, because now I have (or havent found) a way to differentiate which tuner I am selecting. Will give it some run time and see what happens.

Please see the section of the manual I previously referenced. They are all the same channel to SageTV; that's why they are listed once in the guide.

You don't choose the tuner when setting up a recording -- in SageTV, you choose the show to record and SageTV schedules the shows & assigns tuners accordingly to minimize any conflicts.

If you want a tuner to never be used to record a particular channel, then disable the channel on the lineup for that tuner. Keep in mind, that if the exact same lineup is used by another tuner, it will be disabled there too.

You can assign priorities for tuners via an encoder merit property (search the PDF file for 'merit' to find the exact property name & description). The merit value comes into play when all other scheduling decisions between tuners are equal.

- Andy

[davenlr]

Originally Posted by Opus4

You can assign priorities for tuners via an encoder merit property (search the PDF file for 'merit' to find the exact property name & description). The merit value comes into play when all other scheduling decisions between tuners are equal.

- Andy

OK, so if I want the results I had before this change (record the 10pm news on the OTA tuner 1, and if not available, on OTA tuner 2), and if both were in use, I got a conflict message, and scheduled it on cable tuner, I can now go through that pdf file, and assign ota tuner 1 high, ota tuner 2 med, and cable tuner low, or however that works, and it will always record on OTA tuners unless they are both busy, and then will record on the cable tuner? If so, that eliminates the conflict and manual step, so that would work.

My reasoning for all this, is that on my placeshifter client, it will not play mpeg4 encoded files from the HDPVR without the video playing about every third frame, I dont know if its the program or the server isnt fast enough, so I try to avoid recording shows I usually watch on the PC with the mpeg4 tuner.

Ill check out that merit thing, and edit accordingly. Thanks for the help.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by davenlr

... I can now go through that pdf file, and assign ota tuner 1 high, ota tuner 2 med, and cable tuner low, or however that works, and it will always record on OTA tuners unless they are both busy, and then will record on the cable tuner?

It will use the preferred tuner most of the time; there are instances where not everything else is equal, so the lower merit tuner will get used instead. But, it should do what you are looking for.

From an old post, it is described as: "Encoder merit is used when there are multiple lineups with the same channel and it needs to pick which one to record from."... which is what you are describing.

- Andy

[Narflex]

Originally Posted by davenlr

OK, so if I want the results I had before this change (record the 10pm news on the OTA tuner 1, and if not available, on OTA tuner 2), and if both were in use, I got a conflict message, and scheduled it on cable tuner, I can now go through that pdf file, and assign ota tuner 1 high, ota tuner 2 med, and cable tuner low, or however that works, and it will always record on OTA tuners unless they are both busy, and then will record on the cable tuner? If so, that eliminates the conflict and manual step, so that would work.

My reasoning for all this, is that on my placeshifter client, it will not play mpeg4 encoded files from the HDPVR without the video playing about every third frame, I dont know if its the program or the server isnt fast enough, so I try to avoid recording shows I usually watch on the PC with the mpeg4 tuner.

Ill check out that merit thing, and edit accordingly. Thanks for the help.

It will actually do this by default. It prefers digital tuners before anything else; so the OTA ATSC tuners will be considered the highest priority ones by SageTV. So you shouldn't need to make any changes to get the behavior you describe here.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Narflex

It will actually do this by default. It prefers digital tuners before anything else; so the OTA ATSC tuners will be considered the highest priority ones by SageTV. So you shouldn't need to make any changes to get the behavior you describe here.

This takes a while to get used to for someone (like me) coming from Win Media Center or BTV but it makes a lot of sense once you get used to it, although occasionally it would be nice to be able to force a show to record on a certain tuner.

[davenlr]

Originally Posted by Narflex

It will actually do this by default. It prefers digital tuners before anything else; so the OTA ATSC tuners will be considered the highest priority ones by SageTV. So you shouldn't need to make any changes to get the behavior you describe here.

Yep, exactly correct. That is what it is doing, and exactly how I would have set it up. It was a little strange, having all the channels combine into their cable equivilent tho, I would have NEVER looked up in the 200's for channel 2. Once you all pointed that out, I found them. Remapped them, and they are back where they belong (for me).

Also trying out the windows client, which works LOTS better than the placeshifter. I wasnt aware there WAS a windows client, so I bought placeshifter, which never worked with my analog tuner. Client does, so things are coming along well. Im just behind the learning curve on the new software.

Thanks.

[VCRUser]

Originally Posted by davenlr

Also trying out the windows client, which works LOTS better than the placeshifter. I wasnt aware there WAS a windows client, so I bought placeshifter, which never worked with my analog tuner. Client does, so things are coming along well. Im just behind the learning curve on the new software.

My situation is exactly the reverse of yours: In my case, I couldn't get Client to work well on my client PC, but Placeshifter works fine. (I think there were some video driver conflicts with Client; Placeshifter uses Overlay mode.) The digital videos have too high a bitrate (or something) to play properly on my client (it's an older machine), but the analog-tuner cable shows record at a lower bitrate and play ok. To save space for my huge backlog and improve PC-playback performance, I convert/shrink down anything that I won't be watching within a week or on the extender (which plays the high bitrate/large file-size shows just fine - and the bigger screen makes better use of the higher-quality files).

[Chriscic]

Originally Posted by Opus4

There have been some EPG server changes, so what you are seeing is normal for an OTA lineup.

All you will need to do is reconfigure the EPG Lineup via the Source Details menu for that tuner -- you don't need to reconfigure the whole source; just the EPG Lineup. Again: Do not remove the tuner; just choose the "EPG Lineup" item on the tuner's Source Details menu. If you run into an issue trying to select a new lineup, just leave the lineup selection menu and nothing will change. Once you select a lineup, though, the lineup change will be applied.

Then, instead of choosing Local Broadcast for an OTA tuner, choose Cable or Satellite, enter your zip/postal code, then choose Digital Broadcast (there is also Analog Broadcast, but I'm assuming you don't want that one).

You may need to do a new channel scan to make sure all the channels are mapped properly.

The basic steps are:

1. From the Main Menu, go to Setup -> Setup Video Sources, then choose an OTA tuner (used to receive broadcast signals via an antenna).
2. On the tuner's Source Details menu, choose EPG Lineup on the right side of the screen.
3. Choose to use US or Canada guide data (or use an existing lineup if you've already reconfigured the EPG lineup for another OTA tuner).
4. For the next menu's Program Guide Data Provider type, choose "Cable or Satellite". Do not choose "Local Broadcast"; it will just tell you to back up a couple menus if you do.
5. Enter your zip/postal code.
6. Choose the Analog or Digital Broadcast lineup for your zip/postal code.
7. On the Channel Setup menu, perform a channel scan.

And, all OTA channels included in Zap2it's database are now included, not just those on cable/sat lineups.

Remember: for all EPG configuration, go through the cable/sat option & enter your zip/postal code.


While reconfiguring the EPG provider, if you see a blank list of providers, then try again and check this FAQ, including these items:

• Make sure SageTV has access through your firewall to talk to the EPG server. See: What ports do I need to open in my firewall for SageTV?
  
  
• If there is no firewall issue, check that a plugin has not modified the epg/epg_import_plugin property. If that property is not blank, then close SageTV, remove the line from Sage.properties, and restart SageTV.

- Andy

Gee, I'm pretty sure I followed the above instructions exactly, but I am still getting "no data" for all of my OTA HDHR channels. The only thing I remember different is that it asked me if I was using basic or extended basic channels. I chose extended basic (even though the question didn't make sense to begin with). Well, when I have time will give it another whirl... maybe I botched something along the way.

[Chriscic]

Ok, went back again and now I'm sure... after I select Digital Boradcast = 60502, it asks me if I have basic or extended service. How come that's not in your instructions? The question doesn't even make sense for OTA does it?

I'm only getting guide data for 2 out of my 9 OTA channels and this is extremely frustrating. I'm going to submit a bug report, but also posting here in case someone can clue me in. Thanks.

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by Chriscic

Ok, went back again and now I'm sure... after I select Digital Boradcast = 60502, it asks me if I have basic or extended service. How come that's not in your instructions? The question doesn't even make sense for OTA does it?

It doesn't really matter since you are going to perform a channel scan to see which channels you actually receive anyway. I added a comment to select extended anyway. The v7.1 beta doesn't have this step for OTA; it is only a left-over in earlier versions from the old EPG setup paths.

I'm only getting guide data for 2 out of my 9 OTA channels and this is extremely frustrating. I'm going to submit a bug report, but also posting here in case someone can clue me in. Thanks.

Sure, check with SageTV; they may ask to see a debug log.

But, are those channels included in your lineup on the Zap2it site?

And, in SageTV's Channel Setup menu, do those channels have station ID numbers greater than 10000? If not, then they are probably not mapped to the correct stations.

- Andy