Why I went back to Mythtv

[SomeWhatLost]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

There is no SageClient for Linux clients, only PlaceShifter. And to make things more confusing they call it "Sage Client for Linux".

You can use SageClient running on a Windows PC to connect to a Linux server, but I think gregmac is using a Linux client.

oh, well that seems a bit cheesy than...

[gregmac]

Yes, tmiranda is right: the "Sage client for linux" is actually just Sage placeshifter. It's confusing, and on top of that, as I said, it's a terrible and slow application. This includes the Server, also: even when you install the sagetv server on linux, the only UI for it is to run Placeshifter.

Want to make your brand new $500 PC running Ubuntu seem like a 15 year old clunker that sucked even when it was new? Install Placeshifter..

I did also try with SageTV Client for Windows, which runs nicely, but as I said in my post, does not work well as a 10' UI with a remote. To elaborate, there are a couple actions, notably in the plugin area but I think also elsewhere, where sagetv actually shifts focus away to a web browser, and then the remote stops working. It's fine as a client when you're at a PC, but it should not be treated as a PC-based equivalent of an HD300.

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by gregmac

Want to make your brand new $500 PC running Ubuntu seem like a 15 year old clunker that sucked even when it was new? Install Placeshifter..

To be fair to Sage, the Linux edition is really aimed at OEMs who probably want to run Sage on a Linux server and use something else as a front end. It's not meant to be an end user product.

[bialio]

I've had very good performance on the local network with Placeshifter - you have to set it up right (so that it doesn't transcode, etc). But if I had a full client (I'm all extender now) I wouldn't have any issue running placeshifter on it.
btl.

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by gregmac

I did also try with SageTV Client for Windows, which runs nicely, but as I said in my post, does not work well as a 10' UI with a remote. To elaborate, there are a couple actions, notably in the plugin area but I think also elsewhere, where sagetv actually shifts focus away to a web browser, and then the remote stops working. It's fine as a client when you're at a PC, but it should not be treated as a PC-based equivalent of an HD300.

I guess it would depend on how you are configuring your remote, and what receiver you are using. You're remote, would yes, need to be able to either switch back to sage, or close the foreground app to ensure you'd always be able to bring sage back to the front. I use girder as a middle man for my remote, and have the remote's power on command do multiple things, one of which is launching SageTVClient.exe, which, if already running, brings it to the front.

[jpwegas]

Originally Posted by gregmac

For kicks, I also tried the sage placeshifter client on a Linux system (an Intel Atom ION 330, which runs mythtv including 1080p video playback like a dream) and it's an absolute disgrace. It runs so poorly, looks bad, and is just a miserable experience in general, that sage should just discontinue it entirely. Granted it's not the most powerful box, but the placeshifter client really didn't run much better on my server (a dual-core multi-ghz with lots of RAM).

I can't speak to performance on the Atom setup - obviously Placeshifter is a little too demanding in that situation. (I only use Placeshifter on a Linux box when I'm testing, usually from a 3GHz P4 box, and it struggles with 1080p). As you've discovered, it's usually cheaper to just get an extender. Placeshifter does come in handy sometimes too - the kids use it on our Mac when the other TVs are all in use.

Originally Posted by gregmac

My biggest and probably almost only complaint with the HD300 is the volume buttons: it's a low WAF when the big buttons in the middle that say "vol" don't control the volume, and instead, the tiny ones in the top left that say "TV Vol" do (2 of my 3 HD300's use external sound systems).

Yeah, what they did with the volume buttons is pretty poor IMHO. In fairness, prior to the HD-300 the volume buttons ONLY controlled the volume coming out of the extender, and there was NO way to reprogram them to change the volume on the TV (or audio receiver). So they added the ones in the upper right. I wish they just would have made the "regular" volume buttons programmable. Myself and a lot of other people ditch the HD-300 remote (mine are still in the plastic wrap) and use another device, but again, that's an extra cost and it really shouldn't be.

Originally Posted by gregmac

[*]I still find the back button and left button annoying. The worst is when you're in a show, and accidentally hit "back". To get back to fullscreen, you have to use the "Home" button or "Left" button to go back to home, then press "Left". This is not intuitive, and very annoying.

I find the back button behavior odd too when navigating menus. We've learned to just use the left, right, up, down controls whenever possible.

If you hit Back while playing a show, try just hitting Play again. Usually that works, but it depends what's highlighted.

Originally Posted by gregmac

[*]The "intelligent" sort is anything but. The forum has many complaints about this, it is just not a great algorithm. I changed "current recordings" to be grouped by show, ordered by newest first, and "all recordings" to be grouped by show, ordered A-Z.

Agreed, we did similar: In the recording list (at least in v6), there are four tabs up on the top of the list. You can customize these - we have one list ("All") that lists shows (by name with folders) and one (Chronological) that lists them in reverse recording order.

--John

[jpwegas]

Originally Posted by SomeWhatLost

it has always been my understanding that Placeshifter was actually shifting the Place... ie viewing in a hotel room, or someplace on the road where you have limited bandwidth... ie it compresses or re-encodes or something to get the bit count low enough to stream over the internet...
why would you use that on a local network?

If you are using it on the same subnet as the server it doesn't transcode. Or maybe it doesn't if it detects there is enough bandwidth. Or maybe I had to change a setting. I forget. But locally my Placeshifter doesn't transcode.

One possible reason to use it: You want to occasionally watch Sage from a PC or Mac, but you don't want to buy separate Sage Client licenses for each machine. Placeshifter licenses are tied to the server, not to each individual client PC or Mac. (Yes, the Placeshifter has some limitations, like no DVD play.)

--John

[isgdre]

Originally Posted by gregmac

The notification icons are nice, but stop giving me warnings about crap I don't care about. I can't remember what it was, but there was an error icon in the top, and when I clicked it (couldn't figure it out with the remote) it showed me some useless messages that clearly were not actually errors. After that, I mostly ignored the error icon aside from while I was trying to debug issues. I realize this probably comes from plugins and not Sage itself, but it still reflects badly on the whole user experience.

Originally Posted by blade

Actually I've never received a message that I didn't need to know about. It's usually a new channel being added, a software update, capture device error, or recording conflict that needs resolving. As for how to access them you simply go to the main menu and select "Setup" then "System Messages".

I'm going to have to hand it to gregmac on this one. I currently have 171 system messages and all but a hand full are;

Partial Recording due to conflict
and
Recording missed due to conflict.

for me that's like 165 of 171 or 96%
[QUOTE=gregmac;466772]warnings about crap I don't care about./QUOTE]

It's my understanding that;
If it doesn't record it then I can't watch it.
If I don't watch it, it will record it the next time.

Isn't that correct? Is there something I'm missing?

I know I could buy another card to reduce the number of conflicts but I already record more then I bother to watch.

[Benarty]

The problem under any linux distro is still, decent and stable video hardware acceleration, something that runs fluently under windows.
You're best bet under windows is to install the restricted drivers from the video manufacturer but even then, don't expect to see the same improvements as under windows.

If you can't enable hardware acceleration then the P3 3Ghz is simply too slow to decode the mpeg stream. A typical OS has many background applications running that need cpu time and this is the second problem of a P4: one CPU core. A dual core is better , sure for the slow systems like a intel atom.
The atom runs around 10-12% with SD material, towards 50% on HD , HD needs a HD capable decoder.

Not to forget, Hollywood is trying to stop illegal signal reception so doesn't allow that , in case of bouquets the encrypted stream get's decrytped over the AGP/PCI-E bus.

But, as long as the hardware is fast enough , problems are in most cases created by the users.

64bit: expect more problems under windows 7 64bit.
Sure with conditional access and don't forget that DRM is fully integrated
into windows7.
The best windows OS for a HTPC is stil good old 32bit XP.

HTPC under linux is fine but asc's more resources, ok linux can be down tweaked a bit but that counts for windows too.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by Benarty

64bit: expect more problems under windows 7 64bit.
Sure with conditional access and don't forget that DRM is fully integrated
into windows7.
The best windows OS for a HTPC is stil good old 32bit XP.

What are you talking about? SageTV runs fine under Windows 7 64-bit. The only limitations might be support for FireWire tuning/recording and support for the older Hauppauge PVR cards. This is due to either the age of the product like with the PVR cards or lack of further development as in the FireWire STB drivers. Any new hardware will have 64-bit drivers because that is now a requirement for Windows logo certification.

I'm not sure where you are trying to go with DRM but that does not affect SageTV in the slightest.