New server setup with Raid Q's...

[Biggen]

Re-wiring the entire house with Ethernet so that I can stream into every room from a dedicated SageTV server I am putting in a closet. The server's main job will be for watching live tv and recordings. I'll also do some movie watching and ripping since I will now have the hardware to store movies on!

Anyway, hardware wise I am doing an AMD Phenom II X2 with 4GB DDR 3. The case I am getting is this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811147154
I can put 8 Hard drives in this bad boy which should be more than enough for the near future.

My question though is concerning RAID. I am going to put a 500GB drive in for the OS and SageTV software, then put another 500GB drive in for the recordings (I hope 500GB is enough for recordings. It is a new drive I have never used that I had laying around the house so I want to use it!) Neither of these need RAID as I don't care if one of these fail or not. However, I want to setup RAID 5 for my movie rips.

Any idea of a decent card to use that won't totally break the bank? I am thinking using 4 - 6 1TB drives. I guess I don't really need one HUGE array. I could have one RAID card running RAID 5 on 3. disks and then add another RAID card running RAID 5 on a different array of 3 disks.

[paulbeers]

I really like the Dell Perc 5i/6i cards that can be found fairly cheaply on ebay. I am using two Dell Perc 5i's in my server. The 5i can only do RAID 5 with a hot spare, where as the 6i can do both RAID 5 and 6.

[Biggen]

Originally Posted by paulbeers

I really like the Dell Perc 5i/6i cards that can be found fairly cheaply on ebay. I am using two Dell Perc 5i's in my server. The 5i can only do RAID 5 with a hot spare, where as the 6i can do both RAID 5 and 6.

I'm unfamiliar with that card. It appears it is a SCSI controller, no? Not sure what the going rate of 1TB SCSI drives are...

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by Biggen

I'm unfamiliar with that card. It appears it is a SCSI controller, no? Not sure what the going rate of 1TB SCSI drives are...

It's SAS. SAS is backward compatible with SATA.

[Biggen]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

It's SAS. SAS is backward compatible with SATA.

So I'm confused. I can use any SATA drive with a Dell Perc 5i? The connectors are the same?

Damn, I didn't know that. I was looking at High Point controllers for about $100 but it appears the Dell's are better and about the same price for used ones on eBay.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by Biggen

So I'm confused. I can use any SATA drive with a Dell Perc 5i? The connectors are the same?

Damn, I didn't know that. I was looking at High Point controllers for about $100 but it appears the Dell's are better and about the same price for used ones on eBay.

Yes, the cables are the same. I'm not sure what kind of cable is required but the PERC 5i requires cables that go from a single large connector and split off into 4 single cables. You'll need two of those for 8 drives.

I think the cable is this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-166-_-Product

[RocKKer]

Don't know if you saw this thread. Many list what they are successfully using.

If you are even a little Linux savvy (or curious) I would vote for a Linux software raid 5/6 solution, no need for card or special cables and plenty fast for my simultaneous 4 streams in and 3 out.

BTW hope you plan on some ventilation in that server closet, even the low power using computers today create heat and need cool air circulation.

PS I like the case, looks good and has plenty space for HD, being a server case those fans may be noisy, especially the 80mm ones, might not be an issue in a closet though.

[davephan]

I did some searches on the Dell Perc 5i/6i cards a couple of months ago. The prices were hundreds of dollars in my searches. I am a little leary of using used RAID controllers on e-bay, where the prices are cheaper, but it sounds like they are reliable from your experiences.

I decided to go with the unRAID solution. The write throughput is slow, but the read throughput is fast enough. It has the advantages of WHS for a storage server, like mixing different size drives, without the downsides, like 50% storage efficiency,Microsoft instability and patching. Unraid is easy to recover and can be moved to different hardware. If you lose two drives, all your data is gone with RAID 5, which is not the case with unRAID. If you loose two drives with unRAID, you lose only 1 drive, not everything. A future unRAID version is supposed to protect from two drive failures, with no data loss using P+Q parity. UnRAID is pretty cheap. You can use the three drive basic version for free. The 6 and 20 drive versions are pretty low cost. Here's a link if you want to check out unRAID http://www.lime-technology.com/

If you use RAID 5, you should have a hot spare, or use RAID 6 instead. RAID 6 can lose two drives with no data loss, but usually the RAID 6 capable controllers cost a lot more. Replacing your system board with a unit that has built-in RAID might be an option too. However, usually a new system board needs a new CPU and memory. You might also need a spare RAID controller card. If the controller card goes bad, you'll probably need an identical card to get your data back.

Dave

[PiX64]

I was using a perc 5/i setup with 2 raid 5 arrays. 4 x 1TB and 4 x 1.5TB under ubuntu server 9.10.

It worked phenominally well for me. I used it for streaming media, bluray, ftp, http, music, DVD, Squuezebox server, etc.

The throughput on a setup like that connected to a Gigabit network is amazing. a note above, the perc 5/i can actually do several different types of raid, but the most advanced would be the raid 5 + hot spare.

What i found in my year or so of using this setup is that it was just in my opinion over kill for home media setup. Yeah its cool, and Yeah it was super fun to setup and mess with, but just overkill.

Disks were always spinning, sucking power. and there were times when i wouldn't access the server for a week or so at a time...

I found unraid server pro to be a much more sensible solution. powers down disks, saves on power, throughput has been more than adaquete for me (upload, stream music, stream mutliple Blu-ray through house) without problems. I also like the fact that my storage solution can grow with my media needs. need more space? slap a new disk in there, expand the array, and your good to go. I also like the fact that it can support mutliple disk failures, which if data is lost it can be isolated to just the failed disks unlike raid 5. I think raid 6 you can do something similiar to the above, but im not that famliar with raid 6.

i would certainly recommend an unRAID solution to anyone for home use rather than a hardware raid controller.

just my $.02


~Pix64

[Biggen]

Originally Posted by RocKKer

Don't know if you saw this thread. Many list what they are successfully using.

If you are even a little Linux savvy (or curious) I would vote for a Linux software raid 5/6 solution, no need for card or special cables and plenty fast for my simultaneous 4 streams in and 3 out.

BTW hope you plan on some ventilation in that server closet, even the low power using computers today create heat and need cool air circulation.

PS I like the case, looks good and has plenty space for HD, being a server case those fans may be noisy, especially the 80mm ones, might not be an issue in a closet though.

I'll check that thread out. I must have missed it!

I use to run a couple of webservers that I had Slackware installed on. Honestly, though, I just don't want to setup ANOTHER computer. I am trying to just go for one machine which is why I purchased a server case that gives me a little bit of room inside for upgrades...

As far as heat goes, it shoudn't be too much of a problem as I am installing it inside my walkin closet. If there is a major heat buildup, I'll go up in the attic and make a cut into the main air duct and run a dedicated vent down into the closet to provide some cool air. Noise also shouldn't be a problem as there is a wall between the server and everyone else.

@davephan
I have checked into Unraid and it seems like an excellent solution... Except I would have to setup another machine to run it on and I just don't really want to do that. I'll keep it in the back of my mind for future expansion but, for now, I'd like to keep everything contained inside one case.

@PiX64
I, too, have been wondering if perhaps it would be overkill to add a whole bunch of drives in at once and purchase a hardware controller for $100+. I suppose I could simply use a RAID controller on a Motherboard instead of purchasing a hardware based one. That would keep me locked down on the motherboard though and I wouldn't ever be able to move the array. Of course I could always copy the array over to a new Unraid system in the future if I wanted...

Decisions....

[PiX64]

or you could use the free unraid which is up to 3 drives 1 parity to HDD, and upgarde to plus or pro whenever you want or need more space...

no need for a RAID card in this setup or any unraid setup...you can just use the onboard sata ports, or sata expansion cards, etc.

and your not tied down to hardware....granted your tied down to unraid, but i suppose your not really tied down till you buy....

[Biggen]

Originally Posted by PiX64

or you could use the free unraid which is up to 3 drives 1 parity to HDD, and upgarde to plus or pro whenever you want or need more space...

no need for a RAID card in this setup or any unraid setup...you can just use the onboard sata ports, or sata expansion cards, etc.

and your not tied down to hardware....granted your tied down to unraid, but i suppose your not really tied down till you buy....

But I'm still required to build another machine to run unraid which is what I am trying to avoid right now. I'd like to keep everything inside the server case. In the future if everything works out and I enjoy ripping and streaming movies, I can upgrade then.

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

I think the cable is this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-166-_-Product

Yes that is the cable, but you can get them a LOT cheaper on ebay and they are just as good.

Frankly, I picked up my most recent Perc 5i from Ascendtech.us for only 59.99. Add in two cables from ebay for about $20, and the bracket needed for use in a standard PC for $10 (also on ebay) and you have hardware RAID 5 for less than $100 (without battery though).

[Biggen]

Originally Posted by paulbeers

Yes that is the cable, but you can get them a LOT cheaper on ebay and they are just as good.

Frankly, I picked up my most recent Perc 5i from Ascendtech.us for only 59.99. Add in two cables from ebay for about $20, and the bracket needed for use in a standard PC for $10 (also on ebay) and you have hardware RAID 5 for less than $100 (without battery though).

How are you monitoring the RAID array, Paul? I'd like to be able to do it over the network if possible. Also, do the 5i's support array resizing? Say, for example, I wanted to start out with a 3 drive RAID 5 array on Channel 1 of the Perc. Later, as I filled that array up I'd like to be able to add a 4th drive to the SAME channel and array. Will the Perc allow you to dynamically resize the array or no?

[PiX64]

i had some serious trouble exapanding my raid 5 array on a perc 5 i card. ended up having to tear down the array and rebuild it as a 4 disk array. my opinion is thta you are better off just starting with 4 disk:

http://www.overclock.net/hard-drives...-raid-5-a.html

when i had mine setup with unbuntu server, i used webmin to monitor the array.

i know you weren't asking me but thought i would chime in.

~Pix64

[PiX64]

Biggen,

Is virutalization an option for you? I beleve stuckless has a project going on right now where he is working on getting esxi4 to work as the host, and sageTV Server/OS and unraid to run off of VM's

[Biggen]

Originally Posted by PiX64

Biggen,

Is virutalization an option for you? I beleve stuckless has a project going on right now where he is working on getting esxi4 to work as the host, and sageTV Server/OS and unraid to run off of VM's

I am not sure. I have been looking over those threads trying to decide on what to do...

I think I may just do a hardware RAID card for now and go from there. I can always build another machine in the future if everything works out for me...

[PiX64]

Yeah. if your going to do that i would strongly recommend going with a FULL hardware raid card, and not any kind of hyrbrid software/hardware raid. Reason being is that if you have a catastrophic system failure and cannot recover, with a true hardware raid like perc card or something you can move that card to a new system, and your raid array will be there...

~Pix64

[mikejaner]

Originally Posted by PiX64

Yeah. if your going to do that i would strongly recommend going with a FULL hardware raid card, and not any kind of hyrbrid software/hardware raid. Reason being is that if you have a catastrophic system failure and cannot recover, with a true hardware raid like perc card or something you can move that card to a new system, and your raid array will be there...

~Pix64

I agree with avoiding the "hybrid RAID" setups.
I personally have two RAID Arrays running, one Perc 6i on an XP machine, and a Software RAID on an Ubuntu server.
I have to say I love the Software RAID I have setup in Ubuntu. I have expanded the array twice while still recording and playing shows off the volume. Expansion, adding/removing hotspares, and changing the RAID type, like RAID5 to RAID6 can all be done while it is still up and recording.
As for notification, I have a perl script sending me updates via Twitter when the array is down or rebuilds etc... http://twitter.com/honer123network

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by PiX64

no need for a RAID card in this setup or any unraid setup...you can just use the onboard sata ports, or sata expansion cards, etc.

Yeah, but you still need to find controllers with lots of ports. And from my research that's tough in and of itself. It's looking to me like a Perc is about the cheapest option if you need lots of SATA ports. Nobody makes cheap >4port SATA HBAs.

Originally Posted by PiX64

Biggen,

Is virutalization an option for you? I beleve stuckless has a project going on right now where he is working on getting esxi4 to work as the host, and sageTV Server/OS and unraid to run off of VM's

I'm guessing you're thinking of me, unfortunately I think my hardware (R5000) is going to prevent me from doing that.