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Hardware Support Discussions related to using various hardware setups with SageTV products. Anything relating to capture cards, remotes, infrared receivers/transmitters, system compatibility or other hardware related problems or suggestions should be posted here.

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  #1  
Old 09-04-2010, 11:01 AM
mmanville mmanville is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 54
Help me decide between two specific hardware profiles for a WHS+SageTV server

BACKGROUND: I'm planing out my initial installation of SageTV to be a whole house media network, which I envision consisting of:
  1. "Headless" server, running Windows Home Server (Vail when it comes out of beta) and SageTV server (v7)
  2. gigabit network
  3. HDHomerun dual ATSC tuner (attached to network, OTA only)
  4. 1+ HD300 (start with one, but maybe add another 1-2 later depending on how things go)
  5. Semi-dedicated Sage Client box, running on dual core Atom + Win7 (want this instead of HD300 so we can easily watch HDD+BluRay discs, with drive I already have)
  6. other traditional PCs that might ultimately have SageTV clients, or perhaps just run placeshifter -- not sure, probably start out with placeshifter, then only get clients if needed (if we watch on those other boxes enough, and/or if the placeshifter quality is not good enough.
QUESTION: My question is about #1 only (I just provided the other details in case it matters for answering the question), specifically the hardware for the WHS+SageTV box. For processor+motherboard, I'm hoping to be able to reuse some hardware I bought for use as HTPC media center boxes, but I want to make sure I have enough horsepower to do everything I'll ask this box to do. The two options I have for recycling:
  1. M3A78-EM AM2+ motherboard w/ 780g chipset (Radeon HD3200 integrated graphics), with AMD Phenom 8450 2.1ghz X3 (tri core) cpu
  2. MSI K9AGM2 AM2 w/ 680g chipset (Radeon X1250 integrated graphics), with AMD Athlon x2 (dual core) 3800+ 2ghz cpu

In both cases I am thinking of starting out with 2gb memory, but I can up that later if needed (do the graphics capabilities matter on a SageTV server? I don't think so, but included the info above just in case). Both of these options appear to exceed the minimum hardware requirements for WHS Vail beta2. However I'm not sure what additional oomph putting the SageTV server on it will require. In particular, the commercial skip options are something I anticipate wanting to do, and I've heard that takes horsepower. Also Playon -- I bought a license earlier this summer just before they switched away from lifetime license, anticipating I would want to use it.

If the older, slower K9AGM2 + Athlon 64 3800+ box is sufficient, my preference would be to use that, because the 1) the switch from MC to SageTV wouild be less stressful (if I use the Phenom board instead, we have no PVR at all from the moment I start taking that box apart until I have the WHS Sage server running, which would be stressful (risky), 2) the Phenom would be more attractive (have longer useful life) for the kid's PC. So that probably is my true question, is it Athlon 64 x2 3800+ good enough.

For those more used to Intel CPUS, according to the PassMark benchmark rankings the tri core phenom 8450 supposedly matches up to a Core2 Duo T9400 @ 2.53GHz (benchmark ~1700), and the Athlonn 64 x2 3800+ (benchmark 954) supposedly falls between a Pentium Dual-Core T4300 @ 2.10GHz and a Intel Core2 Duo L9300 @ 1.60GHz

Thank you for any feedback you can share! In particular, anyone having specific experience with the Athlon 64 x2 or the Phenoms in actual practice I would be most desirous to hear from.

p.s. I'm well aware that this (in the general case, what processor?) is a FAQ. I know this because I've spent a few hours searching & reading on this forum. The problem is, it seems like every time the question comes up there is a wide range of answers, and the dominant one eventually turn out to be something like "just go buy the most powerful thing you can, so as to futureproof." I'm hoping that by posing my question as a very specific choice between two options, I can get a better feel for what works right now, and not default to overkill ...

Last edited by mmanville; 09-04-2010 at 04:22 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-04-2010, 02:48 PM
stanger89's Avatar
stanger89 stanger89 is offline
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It really all comes down to what you want to do. A dual core is way more than enough for just SageTV. But you mention comskip and Playon.

Comskip first, if you actually want to run commecrial detection (comskip or SA) on the SageTV machine then more horsepower will get it done sooner, but there's really no minimum requirement for them. Only issue could be keeping up with recordings, depending on how many and what types of recordings you have (HD takes more power/time, H.264 HD - HD PVR's take even more).

Playon I really can't give you any really good advice, just the "data" I have. My Core i7 920 breezes through playon, no surprise. My Athlon BE 2400 (dual-core 2.4GHz Athlon 64) works, but not as good, and well my perhaps-soon-to-be-retired Athlon XP server just doesn't have a chance.

-edit - let me amend this a bit, the Athlon BE system I'm talking about is actually my ESXi test system and I just looked and the VM I'd tried Playon in was actually only configured for a single core, so actually a single 2.4GHz core does Playon respectably, but not necessarilly well.

Personally, I'd go bigger/better on the Sage server now, because I don't muck with the hardware in my Sage server very often (as I said, my current server is an Athlon XP 1800). If you go with the 780g board you'll be good for a long time, you can toss a quad core in that at some point if you want.

Last edited by stanger89; 09-04-2010 at 03:35 PM.
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  #3  
Old 09-04-2010, 04:35 PM
PLUCKYHD PLUCKYHD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post
It really all comes down to what you want to do. A dual core is way more than enough for just SageTV. But you mention comskip and Playon.

Comskip first, if you actually want to run commecrial detection (comskip or SA) on the SageTV machine then more horsepower will get it done sooner, but there's really no minimum requirement for them. Only issue could be keeping up with recordings, depending on how many and what types of recordings you have (HD takes more power/time, H.264 HD - HD PVR's take even more).

Playon I really can't give you any really good advice, just the "data" I have. My Core i7 920 breezes through playon, no surprise. My Athlon BE 2400 (dual-core 2.4GHz Athlon 64) works, but not as good, and well my perhaps-soon-to-be-retired Athlon XP server just doesn't have a chance.

-edit - let me amend this a bit, the Athlon BE system I'm talking about is actually my ESXi test system and I just looked and the VM I'd tried Playon in was actually only configured for a single core, so actually a single 2.4GHz core does Playon respectably, but not necessarilly well.

Personally, I'd go bigger/better on the Sage server now, because I don't muck with the hardware in my Sage server very often (as I said, my current server is an Athlon XP 1800). If you go with the 780g board you'll be good for a long time, you can toss a quad core in that at some point if you want.
The more I read about your toys (i7 in this case) the more jealous I get . I have been wanting to get an i7 for a while but just couldn't justify it I have the old dual core overclocked to 4ghz (been running for about 3 years now) it is nice but I now an i7 would be nicer
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  #4  
Old 09-05-2010, 09:17 AM
tchapin tchapin is offline
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I have a dual core machine (Athlon 64 3500+) and have no problems with either comskip or playon. Of course, my situation may be a bit more minimal that others here, as I only have 1 tuner and only record in SD.

Comskip completing quickly only really matters if you want to be able to watch the show very soon after it completes recording. And at least with SD recordings, you can configure comskip to run while the show is recording. But I think otherwise, you can configure comskip to use a lower priority.

As for playon, I can be using that and running comskip and watching a show on another MVP (even an avi or whatnot that requires transcoding) and things run smoothly.

I have 4GB or RAM, of which only about 3.5GB are visible to Windows XP 32-bit.

From what I've read, it's not the recording or playback (if you have an HD100, HD200, or HD300) of HD content that is processor intensive, but comskip and the number of tuners / simultaneous recordings that you have going on at one time. I don't know if watching HD content "live" introduces much processor overhead.

So, for you, I would vote for the more powerful computer.

BTW, you can rip your BlueRay discs (and perhaps and your HDD ones?) and watch them using the HD300. From what I've read, using a Sage client (or server connected to a display used for watching content) can be more problematic in terms of codec configuration and whatnot. So, keep that in mind. You may find that you'd prefer to just drop in another extender.
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  #5  
Old 09-08-2010, 07:18 AM
mmanville mmanville is offline
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Thanks all for the replies! After thinking about things a bit more myself, I realize that I have a unique set of circumstances which push me to try the less powerful board first:

1. If I start out using the more powerful board, I immediately lose my MC HTPC because that's where I am cannibalizing to get the guts of the new server. This puts a lot of time pressure to get both WHS and SageTV figured out quickly, in my first install of each. It's not the end of the world, but also not desirable.

2. If I start out trying the less powerful cpu+board, I leave my existing HTPC alone until I decide, at my leisure, that I have WHS and SageTV working and stable enough to make the switch. In fact I can run both simultaneously & run a shakedown of the new WHS+Sage network setup for as long as I want, installing a client on the existing HTPC running alongside MC (I got the HDHomerun new for my new setup; my MC HTPC has an internal dual tuner card).

If in doing #2 the WHS does not have enough oomph to do everything I want after all, I have sufficient time to evaluate, and can just start over at #1. In any case I will want to go to WHSv2 (Vail) when it comes out of beta next year, so I'll probably have to redo the server no matter what I do now (there is no in place upgrade option planned for WHS as I understand it). At that time I can go ahead and get a new board with an even more powerful cpu pr something, if that is necessary & which seems to be the consensus of replies so far (although I'll be honest, it seems like a little bit of misplaced priorities to buy a new $250 i7 chip (plus ~$150 board & probably new DDR3) for a headless home server, when the most powerful cpu I have in any of the other 6 PCs in my home is an E5200 2.5ghz dual core).
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  #6  
Old 09-08-2010, 02:16 PM
sic0048 sic0048 is offline
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The WHS box even on the slower box will have no problem supporting SageTV, a HDHR, and a few extenders. This should allow you to get set up and running without having to canabalize your HTPC.

However, I think you will find it lacking long term when you start to explore Playon and Comskip.

I use a Quad Core machine myself (see signature). I allow up to two concurrent Comskips to run at the same time, and they will max out a core each (running HD shows). That still leaves 1 core to run Playon and one core to run SageTV and other functions (including running a database graphing program every five minutes which maxes out another core while running for the 20 seconds it takes). All this running together, I don't have any issues.
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i7-6700 server with about 10tb of space currently
SageTV v9 (64bit)
Ceton InfiniTV ETH 6 cable card tuner (Spectrum cable)
OpenDCT
HD-300 HD Extenders (hooked to my whole-house A/V system for synched playback on multiple TVs - great during a Superbowl party)
Amazon Firestick 4k and Nvidia Shield using the MiniClient
Using CQC to control it all
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