HD300 Review

[cncb]

Originally Posted by Brent

I'm not understanding why multi-channel PCM is that important do people still have video collections with media needing this?

I have a few blu-rays with multi-channel PCM and I have converted my DVD-Audio discs into multi-channel FLAC so I was hoping that the HD300 would support this output.

[PLUCKYHD]

I would think it would need licensing to decode the hd db and dts feeds because at that point they would be decoding them and I am sure that requires money. Where as bitstreaming they are just passing it and the reciever is soon.

This is why I am glad I held out hope and kept the audio feeds for the hd when I ripped.

Now why does blu rays in lpcm matter? Wouldn't that still be bitstreamed?

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

Now why does blu rays in lpcm matter? Wouldn't that still be bitstreamed?

The device would need to support multi-channel PCM output to "bit stream" LPCM.

[drewg]

Originally Posted by Brent

I notice a big difference in how fast navigating the UI is going from the HD200 to the HD300 in both extender mode & standalone mode - ESPECIALLY with a lot of cover art and such via the 3rd party plugins.

So I imagine the upgrade from an HD100 would be simply amazing... Hmm...

Drew

[Naylia]

Originally Posted by Brent

I'm not understanding why multi-channel PCM is that important do people still have video collections with media needing this?

Isn't it better to bitstream anyway?

Technically there is no sound quality difference between the two (Dolby/DTS vs LPCM). It's like emailing a zip file (Dolby / DTS), vs emailing the original file (LPCM). You get the same thing after you unpack the zip file on the other side.

This is the old Blu-ray specification thread at AVSForum - you can view by audio format which movies use it. Unfortunately this one is no longer updated as they moved to a new thread which is alphabetical. But you can see that a significant % of Blu-rays are put out with LPCM. If you have space on the disc it's one way to avoid giving Dolby or DTS a cut.

The lack of this is quite surprising because it tends to be the easiest format to support. It was in the first HDMI spec before Dolby/DTS, doesn't require licensing or special technologies, and still provides 8 channels of HD audio.

[babgvant]

Originally Posted by Naylia

Technically there is no sound quality difference between the two (Dolby/DTS vs LPCM). It's like emailing a zip file (Dolby / DTS), vs emailing the original file (LPCM). You get the same thing after you unpack the zip file on the other side.

Adding to that the pro/con is mostly (BD menu mixing is the main exception) dependent on how the AVR treats the formats.

[drewg]

From what everybody is saying, this sounds like amazing hardware. The one and only thing that I was disappointed by is the lack of built-in access to streaming services like Netflix, Pandora, MLB.tv, Hulu, etc. I know its possible to patch things through via PlayOn (which I use with my HD100), but that's a kludgey solution at best. If it had any of those services natively, I'd probably have pre-ordered one already. As it is, I'm still thinking..

Drew

[autoboy]

Without multichannel LPCM, you are losing HD audio on all the HDMI 1.1 and 1.2 receivers out there.

It doesn't matter much to me, but it is one more thing to complain about on the forums.

I'm sure it is because they only wanted to license standard DTS for decoding to stereo. Licensing the HD versions was probably a lot more costly, and since DTS HD is designed to always have a core DTS audio track, the purpose of DTS decoding was to allow stereo only TVs to play DTS and DTS-HD audio streams. DTS HD is becoming the standard for BDs and it was impossible to play streamed BDs with the HD200 without converting the audio. Now, BDs are playable on any TV in your house.

FLAC and other multi-channel encodes are much rarer than DTS, and SageTV has always been more focused on video than audio. So, I'm not surprised by it. Who knows, maybe LPCM is coming, but it won't be decoding the HD audio streams to LPCM. That confusion alone may be why they aren't enabling LPCM. The other more likely reason is probably that they have a thousand things on their to-do lists, and it isn't high on the priority list. Bitstreamed HD audio and DTS decoding were major issues for a lot of people and this solved it.

Thanks SageTV! My HD300s will be ordered once you get Cable Card support going!

[fresnoboy]

Originally Posted by drewg

From what everybody is saying, this sounds like amazing hardware. The one and only thing that I was disappointed by is the lack of built-in access to streaming services like Netflix, Pandora, MLB.tv, Hulu, etc. I know its possible to patch things through via PlayOn (which I use with my HD100), but that's a kludgey solution at best. If it had any of those services natively, I'd probably have pre-ordered one already. As it is, I'm still thinking..

Drew

Some of this is the nature of the beast due to DRM restrictions and platform issues by the service providers. I know the Sage guys are working on some of these. I used to use my one remaining HTPC client for these, but to be honest, my $90 blu-ray deck gives me access to Netflix and Pandora, which are more important to me than the others, and is a nice backup for maintaining high WAF. So it's been a couple months since I last powered up the HTPC.

The bitstreaming support works great, and it was SO MUCH EASIER than getting the stupid windows drivers and cyberlink piece of **** software working right with my Denon 3808CI. The HD300 just works. SO NICE!

Of course, the cable operators don't give you any programming with HD audio, the bitstreaming is just a blu-ray and hd-dvd need. But it's nice for the sageTV platform to do it all.

[Naylia]

Andrew only tested WMV files w/ 5.1 WMAPro and a couple MKVs with FLAC and LPCM. He did not test direct from a Blu-ray. Container choice may have had an impact. I'm seeing if we can get this figured out.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by Naylia

Andrew only tested WMV files w/ 5.1 WMAPro and a couple MKVs with FLAC and LPCM. He did not test direct from a Blu-ray. Container choice may have had an impact. I'm seeing if we can get this figured out.

I'm thinking it worked with a Blu-ray with multi channel. But I'll have to check with I get home to be sure....

UPDATE: Nope - it downmixes unless you bitstream

[drewg]

Originally Posted by fresnoboy

Some of this is the nature of the beast due to DRM restrictions and platform issues by the service providers. I know the Sage guys are working on some of these. I used to use my one remaining HTPC client for these, but to be honest, my $90 blu-ray deck gives me access to Netflix and Pandora, which are more important to me than the others, and is a nice backup for maintaining high WAF. So it's been a couple months since I last powered up the HTPC.

Yes, I know.. It is just frustrating that Roku is now at the $69 price point for their HD Box which does most of this. I'd like to have one box, and not an HTPC for this, a Roku for that, and an HDx00 for the other thing cluttering up the TV area, and leading to a mess of cables, hdmi switches, etc.

Maybe we can duct tape together an HD300, a Roku HD, and an HDMI switch and sell the "HD399" for $229.

Drew

[bastafidli]

Originally Posted by drewg

Maybe we can duct tape together an HD300, a Roku HD, and an HDMI switch and sell the "HD399" for $229.

Or just put it into hd100 enclosure, it should now fit :-)

[Brent]

I'll be addressing this "online content" & DRM issue in the GeekTonic review that will post this evening (just too busy today to get it posted). In short, the HD300 has the right innards to allow for the DRM required by Netflix & other major streaming services. And SageTV has PlayReady license that is required also. So I have hope that it will be here eventually. I just wish it were here today... I'd take Netflix over anything else personally. CableCard would be my #2 wish and Mobile Placeshifter would be my #3 wish.

I'm VERY happy with how many of the requests/wishes of us enthusiasts have been addressed by the HD300, SageTV 7 and the various updates. If I look back at my HD200 review you'll see that about every negative in that review has now been addressed. Difficult to find many companies who are this responsive to the wants/requests of the customer.

[derelicte1]

Brent,

Thanks for your review.

if you get a chance, could you please check to see if the 300 will output lpcm from a bd. cars is lpcm, for instance.

thanks!

[fresnoboy]

Originally Posted by Brent

I'll be addressing this "online content" & DRM issue in the GeekTonic review that will post this evening (just too busy today to get it posted). In short, the HD300 has the right innards to allow for the DRM required by Netflix & other major streaming services. And SageTV has PlayReady license that is required also. So I have hope that it will be here eventually. I just wish it were here today... I'd take Netflix over anything else personally. CableCard would be my #2 wish and Mobile Placeshifter would be my #3 wish.

I'm VERY happy with how many of the requests/wishes of us enthusiasts have been addressed by the HD300, SageTV 7 and the various updates. If I look back at my HD200 review you'll see that about every negative in that review has now been addressed. Difficult to find many companies who are this responsive to the wants/requests of the customer.

Indeed. The Roku's all use the NXP media processor line, which is extremely similar to Sigma part that the HD300 uses, Macrovision support etc... included. This is just an issue of coding and certification by the content distributors. If there was not a DRM requirement we could have had all this stuff working a long time ago.

That said, the 3D support on all these parts leaves much to be desired. So you will still be better off with a PC client if you need all the dancing bears etc... in your UI. This is also part of the reason that MSFT just uses Xbox360's as extenders for 7MC - they would have mod their UI to dumb it down so it wouldn't crawl on a media processor extender.

Of course, as a SageMC user, I have already voted in terms of my need for eye candy.

[Suntan]

Originally Posted by drewg

Yes, I know.. It is just frustrating that Roku is now at the $69 price point for their HD Box which does most of this. I'd like to have one box, and not an HTPC for this, a Roku for that, and an HDx00 for the other thing cluttering up the TV area, and leading to a mess of cables, hdmi switches, etc.

Maybe we can duct tape together an HD300, a Roku HD, and an HDMI switch and sell the "HD399" for $229.

Drew

Don’t forget the network switch that you will need to split that one CAT5 cable to the two different devices...

Seriously though, I too run the Play On plugin, but would be ecstatic if Sage could get native Netflix on demand support in the extender (hulu would rock to, but not nearly as important.) That said, one of these at $150 with a Roku sitting next to it for an additional $80 or so is still pretty competitive to any other solution in the market.

-Suntan

[dinki]

Any chance of getting WOL for the HD200 or does it require hardware than only the HD300 has?

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by Brent

I'm VERY happy with how many of the requests/wishes of us enthusiasts have been addressed by the HD300, SageTV 7 and the various updates. If I look back at my HD200 review you'll see that about every negative in that review has now been addressed. Difficult to find many companies who are this responsive to the wants/requests of the customer.

I have to agree with this entirely. SageTV 7 has a completely revamped gui which was one of the major complaints of the software and the HD300 has just about everything (even the external IR receiver!) that has been requested. It's impossible to be everything to everyone, but Sage has shown that they listen and try to incorporate as many of our requests as they can. It is this very reason that I am always willing to spend money on Extenders and Licenses. Heck I bought a V7 upgrade license the day it came out even though I still haven't upgraded to V7 (waiting until my server is done before I make the switch for WAF factor).

[Suntan]

That said, the 3D support on all these parts leaves much to be desired. So you will still be better off with a PC client if you need all the dancing bears etc... in your UI.

Dancing bears? We’re all just jazzed to get that little blue TrueHD light to finally light up on our AVRs...

-Suntan