Don't forget about the OSX clients

[Nadim]

Okey.... I guess it is now time to see some OSX playshifter 7 and client 7 love.... let the beta testing for OSX begin...

[sandor]

Originally Posted by Nadim

Okey.... I guess it is now time to see some OSX playshifter 7 and client 7 love.... let the beta testing for OSX begin...

...

[heffneil]

oy vey. I don't know if there are enough people to make it worthwhile for sage to make a placeshifter for OSX and if they make an iOS app then they kill their market for extenders since you could then use apple tv fir $99 as a sagetv extender.

Ultimately I think the mac genre is done.

[GregT]

Who knows what they're thinking. It would be silly to abandon the Mac market, with millions of potential customers out there. Then again, I've never figured out Sage's marketing approach, which seems to be based almost entirely on word of mouth. Unless you already know about Sage, or someone tells you about Sage, you don't ever see Sage. That goes for all platforms.

My suspicion remains, that they simply don't have resources to code the Mac side.

I stopped waiting, and moved on to another product. If V7 comes out for Mac, and I can utilize all the Mac gear I already own, maybe I'll come back. I have no intention of paying another full set of licensing fees, and purchasing a Windows machine, to convert Sage to a Windows environment.

[sandor]

Originally Posted by heffneil

Ultimately I think the mac genre is done.

that would be sad, as i have had an immense amount of success (read: stability) in running my Sage server on a Macintosh.

In fact, stability was the initial reason i tried the Mac version of Sage server when it first came out - i was fed up with Windows (i had been using Sage since v4)

[Brent]

Seems like even Apple has given up on the Mac though. They are moving towards an iOS focus with apps being key aren't they?

[Taddeusz]

I don't know that they're giving up on Mac. I just think that the idea of an OS is evolving in light of advancements in smart phones. Things are becoming more app centric. I think people have a general want to be lead on how to do things rather than having to actively search them out. I suppose it's kind of a dumbing down of computers but that's been going on ever since computers were built. People always want an easier way to do things even if that means sacrificing minor features for usability.

There will always be people that want/need to get into the nuts and bolts of computers and OS's but the vast majority of people just want to be shown how to do their work. Everything else is superfluous to them. In a very specific way iOS provides that like no other interface has before.

[Brent]

So lets assume Apple is moving towards pushing iOS more and more even on their "computers." If this is the case, wouldn't it make the most sense for SageTV to produce an iOS app since the development of that would satisfy all Apple owners including iPhone, iPod Touch, Newer Apple Computers - except for those with older computers?

I don't know if I'm on the right track here, just wondering.

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by Brent

So lets assume Apple is moving towards pushing iOS more and more even on their "computers." If this is the case, wouldn't it make the most sense for SageTV to produce an iOS app since the development of that would satisfy all Apple owners including iPhone, iPod Touch, Newer Apple Computers - except for those with older computers?

I don't know if I'm on the right track here, just wondering.

It's hard to say. Apple is going down the path of creating an app store that will look and act much like the iOS app store and the menu for it (at least the beta screens I have seen) will be laid out like the various "screens" of iOS devices (especially in 10.7), but what we don't know is how much of the iOS code could be used in desktop/laptop realm. Obviously one is X86 and the other is ARM which is very different, but will we end up with SDK's and runtime environments that are universal to each other so that if I write something for an iPhone that it will play back in OSX 10.7 (obviously it will have to be scaled)? If it can't, then it is really isn't any different than having to create an iOS client separate from a Mac client today.

My guess is that (if up to SJ) OSX and iOS will merge (we are already seeing this with some of the beta 10.7 shots) at least in the GUI and all of their laptops/desktops will all go touchscreen (clearly SJ hates buttons) to accommodate this shift. We just don't know how superficial this merging will be meaning will it just be that they look and act a lot a like or will software be virtually interchangeable (again the ARM vs X86 architectures will come into play as to how well this will work).

[PLUCKYHD]

Although iOS store is shifting to desktops I don't look for desktops to go away from being a computer first. It will be a while before they can be the same you just can't do on portable device that which can be done on a desktop. I think they are more trying blend styles (ui) but not functions.

I personally want a Mac client desperately myself.

[sandor]

Originally Posted by Brent

Seems like even Apple has given up on the Mac though. They are moving towards an iOS focus with apps being key aren't they?

well, iOS and OS X are both Darwin-based. iOS relies on the CocoaTouch API for UI, and OS X Cocoa. Both have programming done in ObjC.

I don't think it is really a question of one replacing the other, rather a question of what devices Apple will choose to make "consumption" devices and which will be "creation" devices.


And as far as a digital distribution front for computer applications? it is about time...

[mayamaniac]

I think Apple is trying to control their products and market. Creating an app store ecosystem in all their products allows them to better control what the customer uses. Control is important for them as their market grows, this is what Apple has been doing and it's not going to change. And on top of that, they get a piece of the pie in profit from app developers.

If the new app store for OSX is good, then a SageTV client and Placeshifter might be better there. If it sucks like Dashboard widgets, while sounds cool but no one uses, then it will go away.

[GregT]

And none of this about Apple's marketing decisions, has anything to do with Sage's decision to not release an OS X version of it's V7 release.

Let's face it, Apple products are not niche any more. There is not a limited user base for them, nor is there a shortage of programmers that know how to develop for them. Today, a decision to not develop for OS X by any company, is a conscious decision, not a technical one. Sage has the knowledge, as they've been developing their product for OS X for some time. For whatever reason, they are choosing to not put out an OS X version along with their other platforms.

Perhaps is a retool, and there's something coming out that capitalizes on more than just the previous OS X product line. That's the optimistic viewpoint. Perhaps someone at Sage has a beef with Apple (or something specific associated with Apple), and just doesn't want to prioritize that product line. That's the other end of the spectrum, but the lack of even a "we're working on it" kind of statement, would tend to support something more to this extreme side.

The complete lack of communication about intention to release or not release an OS X version, is the most telling to me. V7 is out. There's no marketing secret to keep about form or function. There's no down side to communicating to your customer base, that you are developing it, even if you prioritize it lower than other platforms. Lower priority than Linux? There's not an avalanche of Linux discussions that would indicate it has any larger of a Sage user base than OS X.

Sage has already sent the message. The OS X user base is not important to them. It's unfortunate that they think so little of us.

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by GregT

The complete lack of communication about intention to release or not release an OS X version, is the most telling to me. V7 is out. There's no marketing secret to keep about form or function. There's no down side to communicating to your customer base, that you are developing it, even if you prioritize it lower than other platforms. Lower priority than Linux? There's not an avalanche of Linux discussions that would indicate it has any larger of a Sage user base than OS X.

Sage rarely ever releases information about projects. They've been bitten before by doing this. The lack of communication about this is par for the course.

Further, the reason for the priority of Linux over OSX is that one of their projects is to release a full system on a USB stick (although this was announced during an interview over a year ago and has never come to light yet). The only way they can do that is to use a free OS like Linux.

I myself would love to see a placeshifter client for OSX. I hate having to use my wife's Windows 7 Laptop out in the garage whenever I want to take Sage out there while cleaning/building/etc....

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by GregT

A
Let's face it, Apple products are not niche any more. There is not a limited user base for them,

While I agree with this statement that does not mean it isn't a niche or limited user base for sagetv. I would estimate the amount of mac users that use sagetv to be less than 1% of all of sagetv's business. As much as I want a client for MAC as well I have to say I can understand why it isn't sage's priority.

[GregT]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

While I agree with this statement that does not mean it isn't a niche or limited user base for sagetv. I would estimate the amount of mac users that use sagetv to be less than 1% of all of sagetv's business. As much as I want a client for MAC as well I have to say I can understand why it isn't sage's priority.

Which is why I'll probably never understand their marketing strategy. Millions of potential customers, that they are deliberately choosing to not engage.

We can speculate all we want about how their customer base is spread out among platforms, but the bottom line is, they have a decent product, that most existing customers are happy with. That product could be of interest to millions of new customers. If it were me, I'd be catering to existing customers, and I'd be promoting to potential new customers.

There's no mystery of a new product on the horizon to conceal. They just released a new product. There's absolutely nothing to be gained by being secretive about their plans for the Mac version. If they're developing it, recruit for it. If they're not developing it, provide a helpful path to convert existing customers away from it, and maintain the relationship. Something else is at play here. It just defies common sense for building your business.

Anyway, I'm really just more bewildered than anything else. I moved on a while ago, and was surprised when I checked this forum the other day, that there still wasn't any word on the Mac side.

[mayamaniac]

Originally Posted by GregT

Which is why I'll probably never understand their marketing strategy. Millions of potential customers, that they are deliberately choosing to not engage.

I'm guessing that they just don't have the resources to simultaneously develop Windows, Linux, and Mac at the same time. And their priority is Windows first, Linux second, and Mac third. And they only have the resources to do 2 of the 3.

We can speculate all we want about how their customer base is spread out among platforms, but the bottom line is, they have a decent product, that most existing customers are happy with. That product could be of interest to millions of new customers. If it were me, I'd be catering to existing customers, and I'd be promoting to potential new customers.

They know that, that's why they made a Mac version of SageTV. But they started out as a Windows product only, then move to linux, and later on Mac.

There's no mystery of a new product on the horizon to conceal. They just released a new product. There's absolutely nothing to be gained by being secretive about their plans for the Mac version. If they're developing it, recruit for it. If they're not developing it, provide a helpful path to convert existing customers away from it, and maintain the relationship. Something else is at play here. It just defies common sense for building your business.

There's no sign they are not developing a Mac version. In the past, they have always released the Windows and Linux versions first, then Mac version later. Version 7 is no different. As an Apple customer, you should be used to a company not revealing any information about their products as they please.

Anyway, I'm really just more bewildered than anything else. I moved on a while ago, and was surprised when I checked this forum the other day, that there still wasn't any word on the Mac side.

I don't blame you. Honestly, SageTV is a Windows and Linux product. I think they are wasting their time with the Mac versions since they don't have the resources to keep up with it.

[sandor]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

I don't blame you. Honestly, SageTV is a Windows and Linux product. I think they are wasting their time with the Mac versions since they don't have the resources to keep up with it.

inside information?

i agree that the mac version has typically lagged behind the window's version slightly, but prior it has been measured in weeks, not months.

personally, i think the mac server has been excellent, and has been rock solid for me. i got started with sage on windows, but couldn't imagine switching back.

[flavius]

I have given up on the Mac support and switched to something else.

[mayamaniac]

Originally Posted by sandor

inside information?

No, just basing on the fact that they can't release the Mac version at the same time as Windows and Linux version. And if you are a Mac user, and the mac version of the product is always second or third priority down the line, then I don't blame you for not investing in the product.

I'm glad that the mac version is working well for you though.