Where would YOU put Sage's improvement priorities?

[Sparhawk6]

The answer for everyone should be "CableCard support" hands down! As others have suggested, without access to extended and premium channels, Sage will die quickly. In a couple of years, a cablecard (or its equivalent) will be needed for everything beyond network channels and public access stations. And after the cable companies close the "analog loophole" that is component, we will be completely out of luck.

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by Sparhawk6

The answer for everyone should be "CableCard support" hands down! As others have suggested, without access to extended and premium channels, Sage will die quickly. In a couple of years, a cablecard (or its equivalent) will be needed for everything beyond network channels and public access stations. And after the cable companies close the "analog loophole" that is component, we will be completely out of luck.

You're trying to lump everyone together, which isn't possible. First, there are people outside the US who use SageTV and who have no interest in CableCard. Second, back in the states, why would a satellite subscriber vote for CableCard support? I have zero interest in CC for that very reason. The 2 HD-PVRs I have are happily recording all the premium channels DirecTV sends me. When the analog hole is closed, there are alternatives which can take HDMI and convert it to component so I can continue using my HD-PVRs. I'm also hopeful that some competition will arrive for the HD-PVR.

I'm also leery of any sort of DRM being built into SageTV. If they're forced to listen to the broadcaster's flags which say a show/movie is not allowed to be recorded or is not allowed to be watched after 24 hours, I'll have lost the primary reason I booted DirecTV's DVR to the curb and spent thousands on my SageTV setup.

[tchapin]

I would like a new UI (perhaps Ortus will be that), b/c the default STV is not logical. The settings menus in particular are pretty disorganized. As an example, it's not clear what settings will effect only the current client instance you're using (extender, placeshifter, etc) and which settings will change the behavior of the server.

I also really hate the content (recordings, videos, etc) screens that have both the vertical and horizontal menu bars. It was never clear to me how to navigate them clearly using a remote.

If it weren't for SageMC, I would never have gotten into SageTV b/c the default UI is so unusable. Perhaps it's different for people who primarily use Sage from a client installation instead of an extender. I can see that it would be easier using a mouse than a remote. But as time goes on and SageMC falls further behind b/c it's not developed any more, features will likely break.

I think the default UI also keeps people from buying the software, although that's just a gut feeling I have. Although there have been some reviews of the software which have commented on that.

I don't care of flashy or splashy, so I didn't vote for that item. I don't care about animation or sparkles. I just want it to be clear and easy to use.

I did vote for a revamp of the music / video / photos, although for the most part, I'm fine with videos as they are. Perhaps an automatically created list of the recently added items would be helpful. But I think the ability to create smart playlists would be awesome.

[bastafidli]

Originally Posted by fac13

A "Stop Recording" button just like they used to have on VCRs; telling lies about already having watched something is not intuitive and is also very naughty

+1. This is such a simple thing but the other day I had to search the forums to figure out how to stop the recording.

[Sparhawk6]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

You're trying to lump everyone together, which isn't possible. First, there are people outside the US who use SageTV and who have no interest in CableCard. Second, back in the states, why would a satellite subscriber vote for CableCard support? I have zero interest in CC for that very reason. The 2 HD-PVRs I have are happily recording all the premium channels DirecTV sends me. When the analog hole is closed, there are alternatives which can take HDMI and convert it to component so I can continue using my HD-PVRs. I'm also hopeful that some competition will arrive for the HD-PVR.

I'm also leery of any sort of DRM being built into SageTV. If they're forced to listen to the broadcaster's flags which say a show/movie is not allowed to be recorded or is not allowed to be watched after 24 hours, I'll have lost the primary reason I booted DirecTV's DVR to the curb and spent thousands on my SageTV setup.

My argument still stands. It is likely safe to assume that the vast majority of SageTV's users, or potential users, are on cable. If Sage completely loses that market, it won't survive. So yes, even you should be voting for CableCard support (or the equivalent)!

[broderp]

To maximize SAGETV and all its customizability. you need to have a deep understanding of XML or some other form of PC language.

Out of the box configurations are OK, but customization is not user friendly.

To many issues that arrize require very criptic fixes, opening of properties files and editing them, but only under cirtain operational charcteristics of the program IE sage has to be completely shut down, including the service.

For some this is OK, but many (average user) looking to buy a PVR this is a PIA.

SAGE should develope the software to make all these pluggins and customizations ans well services user friendly.

just my two cents......since you asked.

[ThePaladinTech]

my priorities from most important to least:

1. Improved UI - I'm going with the comments that have been listed... it's not just about flashy, but it IS about flashy... so more intuitive, better looking, and the built in ability to restrict someone (some child or whatever) from screwing it up, the ability to have multiple viewer profiles. I placed this as #1 because I think it will help sage be more successful. I also believe that not only will it draw more people if it is easier to use, it will also differentiate Sage from tivo and the provider stb.

2. Cable Card - Let me get all my digital content thank you! - I don't want DRM, but if I must to get everything I want reliably then i say do it.

3. Improve Music/Video/Photo system - I've read a post that resulted in someone saying you couldn't have one system do it all well, and I don't believe that I can't have that (maybe I am wrong) - one of the reasons I went with Sage over beyondTV is that sage was a MEDIA center... it would be great if that portion was jazzed up.

4. Other- Online Hulu, netflix, Amazon, Pandora, LastFM, youtube, etc - Sorry folks but BlueRay is going to have a short life compared to DVDs as the world marches right by to direct digital... Actually this would be my personal #1, right now I have THREE things to try and handle this (Playon, Playon Addon, Streaming Add on) - And I think this really is an extension of item #3

5. OK BlueRay

6. "server on a Stick" - I've never really understood the concept... or am i getting caught up in semantics? I certainly think sage would sell more if it were easier for less technical people. My job is in IT and I feel I am at best an 'average' Sage User... So if that is what it means ok. But even at that, I think most of us believe that Sage is pretty bulletproof if we would just leave it alone! so with that in mind, so what if setup is a little complicated, you only set it up once.

7. Create an Official Plugin installer system, and an online plugin catalog - Again, While I have my problems adding new stuff that the wizards on the forums come up with is it because it is HARD to do? No, it's because it is poorly documented... Strike that- the documentation is not well organized- some is in a thread 30+ pages long, some is on a wiki, some is on a personal webpage etc. I totally agree with the post that the community needs to help out here- Again, I'm in IT and my experience is IT people aren't the best documentation people... they make documentation that works for them. So while this would be VERY nice, I just can't see it as a priority. I think that popular plugins should be given there own sub forum, and give the creator admin rights to that sub forum (he could sticky stuff, manage the info posts, appoint members to assist him with forum duties...)

8. Eliminate the pause - If I am not mistaken even my Tivo has a pause. *IF* I am recording something and watch it while it is live / recording. there's a glitch as the Tivo stops recording the show and begins merely caching the 'live' tv. it's just a little 'hicup' the other things IMHO are wider reaching

9. Improve international EPG - I'm in the US so I don't care much about that. Sorry

just my 2 cents since we are page 3 of this poll

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by Sparhawk6

My argument still stands. It is likely safe to assume that the vast majority of SageTV's users, or potential users, are on cable.

Really? You must be privy to some confidential information I'm not. I know I couldn't cull that simply from the forums.

EDIT: I changed my mind. Looking at the votes right now, only 52 out of 141 voters voted for the CC option. I don't believe in statistics, but if I did, going by this small piece of info, it would seem that either only ~1/3 of the people are using cable (thereby disproving your belief) or (assuming your info is fact) that ~2/3 of cable users don't want CC. Yes, that's a joke, but it shows how statistics don't show the full picture, nor does simply going by what you see in the forums.

If Sage completely loses that market, it won't survive.

They sure seem to have done well so far. I guess I have more confidence in the people behind the scenes.

So yes, even you should be voting for CableCard support (or the equivalent)!

Your logic is that SageTV will go belly up if they don't support CC, so if I want SageTV to continue as a company, I should want CC? Nope... still not convinced. But, that's okay. Everyone's entitled to their opinion.

[rtengvad]

+1 DVB subs

[doncote0]

SageTV is already looking into CableCard support and even has gone so far as to request relaxed rules for software developers from the FCC. The idea is that if the hardware is already DRM compliant than software that supports that goal does not warrant the excessive testing to grant it approval.

It makes a lot of sense, if the indestructable safe is locked why put its' contents inside another safe (safe inside a safe)? It's overkill especially if the same key and combination will open both safes.

http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/docume...?id=7020387077

http://hd.engadget.com/2010/03/17/a-...ndaids-by-thi/

[blade]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

Really? You must be privy to some confidential information I'm not. I know I couldn't cull that simply from the forums.

EDIT: I changed my mind. Looking at the votes right now, only 52 out of 141 voters voted for the CC option. I don't believe in statistics, but if I did, going by this small piece of info, it would seem that either only ~1/3 of the people are using cable (thereby disproving your belief) or (assuming your info is fact) that ~2/3 of cable users don't want CC. Yes, that's a joke, but it shows how statistics don't show the full picture, nor does simply going by what you see in the forums.

I have to agree with Sparhawk6. While it's not possible to know exactly what % of US homes have cable service, most studies seem to suggest the number is over 60%. Studies I've read suggest satellite is in around 28% of US households. I haven't seen any studies on OTA broadcasts. I know there are some people with Sage setups that have nothing but OTA, but I would be willing to wager they are in the minority. With cable in over twice as many homes as satellite to me it's clear cable is definitely the larger potential user base. As for Sage's current user base we have no way of knowing, but I doubt you'd find many who would argue that cable users aren't a large part of the users.

Of course none of this may matter to you since you "don't believe in statistics." Which btw I don't really understand. Statistics isn't like the Easter Bunny, it's a science that is used around the world for just about everything.

They sure seem to have done well so far. I guess I have more confidence in the people behind the scenes.

Yes, they've done well so far and they've supported the cable users well. When QAM capable tuners started becoming mainstream they were quick to implement them and were one of the first to get the HD-PVR working with their software (of course this helps other sources as well).

My point is when I started using Sage I received around 70 channels via cable and could capture all of them. Right now if Comcast switches off the analog and goes all digital I could capture about 12 of the 100-200 channels I receive unless I get a HD-PVR. The thought of having multiple STB's using firewire or IR blasters to change the channel just isn't as appealing to me as having something like the new HDHomeRun with cable card support. If another product comes along that can rival Sage (doesn't have to be as good just close) and can provide cable card support then it would be very tempting to jump ship.

Of course it's not just about people leaving, but all of the potential new customers something like cable card would bring.

Your logic is that SageTV will go belly up if they don't support CC, so if I want SageTV to continue as a company, I should want CC? Nope... still not convinced. But, that's okay. Everyone's entitled to their opinion.

I don't know if they'll go belly up, but if they lost a large portion of the cable users I would imagine it would be a big blow. I agree we're all entitled to our opinion.

[Skirge01]

Originally Posted by blade

Of course none of this may matter to you since you "don't believe in statistics." Which btw I don't really understand. Statistics isn't like the Easter Bunny, it's a science that is used around the world for just about everything.

I'll just respond to this one and hope we don't get off topic as a result. Let me rephrase what I meant: I don't trust statistics. The reason is because the methods used are almost always flawed because the person doing the study wants a certain outcome. If it doesn't work, the study is done again. This is why we have statistics which completely contradict each other. Politicians, schools, environmentalists, lobbyists, businesses, etc... they all use statistics [via flawed methods] in order to promote their own, personal agendas.

[blade]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

I'll just respond to this one and hope we don't get off topic as a result. Let me rephrase what I meant: I don't trust statistics. The reason is because the methods used are almost always flawed because the person doing the study wants a certain outcome. If it doesn't work, the study is done again. This is why we have statistics which completely contradict each other. Politicians, schools, environmentalists, lobbyists, businesses, etc... they all use statistics [via flawed methods] in order to promote their own, personal agendas.

I can agree with that.

To get back on topic (or at least close to it). The thing that surprises me most in this poll is the number of people who would like for Sage to "create an official plugin installer system, and online plugin catalog." Everything else is about what I expected.

[bastafidli]

Originally Posted by blade

I can agree with that.

To get back on topic (or at least close to it). The thing that surprises me most in this poll is the number of people who would like for Sage to "create an official plugin installer system, and online plugin catalog." Everything else is about what I expected.

No surprise here. People want things just to work and spend their time watching TV rather than messing around in terminal editing files and installing plugins

[HelenWeathers]

Originally Posted by blade

.....The thing that surprises me most in this poll is the number of people who would like for Sage to "create an official plugin installer system, and online plugin catalog."

I was surprised by this as well. I would have thought that users might just encourage Sage to incorporate some of the features that are provided by plugins into the base package. But that wasn't a choice in the poll. Might have been a good addition.... water under the bridge.

[VCRUser]

No interest in flashy ui - none, nada, zilch. I'm interested only in functionality. For me the highest priorities are:
(1) Easy movement of shows on and off the system, e.g. integrated offline storage. Even with compression, my library will soon overflow what I can conveniently keep online, and some shows will need to be offloaded to external storage (DVD, disconnected usb hard drives, whatever). I'd like a function to mark a recording as "offline," leave it on the list of shows, then when I try to watch it, get a message telling me to load it up. Alternatively, I could take my DVD/usb drive/whatever, copy the offloaded files back to the system, and it would switch their status to online.
(2) better ways to work with cable, such as cablecard
(3) support for Netflix, Hulu, etc.

[UgaData]

From the Poll list, I choose the cablecard and Blueray support.

It would be nice to be able to easily edit the wiz.bin file.
It would be nice if SageTV could work directly with ISO files.
I believe Sage needs to incorporate more online content (I think they have a good start already) specifically Netflix. I suspect many will try to save money and look to the Internet for content, dropping cable or satellite in the process.

[thymceelie]

Function is definitely more important than form, but there is no reason why the default interface couldn't be redesigned. Appearance does matter and the current design is getting pretty old. And I'd love for Sage to improve its integration of misc media, blu ray, netflix and hulu. There are so many online options for viewing content now that I think it'll be important to have tighter integration if Sage wants to stay relevant.

[reggie14]

I'd certainly like to see online video too, but unless they can support the big players (e.g., Hulu, Netflix, TV network streaming sites), and drastically improve the UI over the current online video menu, I'll never use it. The problem is, I just don't see Netflix support anytime soon, and I definitely don't expect to see official Hulu support ever. So sure, online video would make my wish list, I just don't think its realistic.

I think the same thing goes for CableCard. I don't expect to see any CableCard support unless SiliconDust can convince CableLabs its OK to give uncertified applications access to copy-freely TV programming. And that mainly just helps Comcast and FiOS customers, as far as I know, since they seem to keep most things marked copy-freely.

[seandulac]

need better management of QAM stations. My SageTV is constantly hosed because I have to manually tune all the QAM stations. Takes forever to find which is which mapping QAM to the SageTV channels.