HD-200 vs HTPC Client

[Greg]

What are the advantages of the HTPC being used as the extender over, as compared to the HD-200?

The only thing that I can see is that you can surf the web and stream from any site (not going through SageTV), as opposed to the HD-200 which is limited by Sage as to what sites are available from Playon, Hulu, etc..

Thanks,
Greg

[stanger89]

It's probably (or at least potentially) a bit faster, can have a drive to play DVDs directly, you get a bit more freedom with customizaitons that rely on external applications.

Really it's about external applications. If you're like me and you never left the SageTV interface on the PC, you'll probably not miss anything with an extender (and you'll love the benefits).

[Lucas]

Ditto. Plus the minuses of the HTPC compared to the HD200 outweigh its positives....IMHO.

[loonsailor]

An HTPC is one more computer to maintain. The HD-200 just works, silently and reliably, on <5 watts, and costs a lot less.

[lovingHDTV]

Originally Posted by stanger89

It's probably (or at least potentially) a bit faster, can have a drive to play DVDs directly, you get a bit more freedom with customizaitons that rely on external applications.

Really it's about external applications. If you're like me and you never left the SageTV interface on the PC, you'll probably not miss anything with an extender (and you'll love the benefits).

This about sums it up. You need to figure out what you want it to do, then you can decide on whether to use a PC or an extender. I recently went through this process and built a new client PC instead of buying an extender.

Extenders are cheaper, easier, better so . . . Why build yet another PC?

1. DVD/blu-ray drive, I need one in/near/adjacent to the playback device. There are hacks to try and work around this, but none that are acceptable to me.
2. I browse/stream outside SageTV regularly
3. I prefer a keyboard to a remote for searching, even in SageTV

When Sage releases an extender that has those three things, then I'll buy one, but until then my needs are not met with an extender.

dave

P.S. - I hesitated to post because I've seen many of these threads and they tend to spiral out of control quickly . . .

[Fuzzy]

I also have stuck to an HTPC for a few reasons:

1. Full BD Support (via ArcSoft TMT3 and my plugin)
2. Hulu Desktop (far supperior to the PlayOn workarounds)
3. Big Screen PC Gaming (In Stereo3D for me)

My server has plenty of power (built with left-over parts from mine and others cast-offs) to do all I need. The only cost I had in using it as my main playback device was 2 Active USB Extension cables, and a long DVI-to-HDMI cable. PC sits in another room's closet, all that's in the living room is a USB-UIRT on top of the set, a cheap USB sound card, and an external USB BD-ROM drive.

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by lovingHDTV

3. I prefer a keyboard to a remote for searching, even in SageTV

.

Just FYI, Sage did add keyboard abilities to the HD200. However, the other two remain true.

[GKusnick]

It doesn't have to be an either/or choice. You can have an extender on the big screen in the living room, and SageTV Client on your laptop or home office PC. I personally prefer a keyboard and mouse for scheduling and maintenance, and use the remote mostly for playback. When my wife is watching her shows in the living room, I retire to the office to watch my shows on the PC there.

[dcardellini]

.....and for very few of us:

...if you want to get rid of audio components (pre/pro or receiver), an HTPC can output 7.1 analog channels directly to a power amp, with Dolby/DTS fully decoded.

[CollinR]

I also have a the server's video to the display, VGA = SageTV HDMI = HD200. It's been ages since I have changed sources though.

[brainbone]

Originally Posted by CollinR

I also have a the server's video to the display, VGA = SageTV HDMI = HD200.

Could be a silly question, but why?? Since you already have a SageTV server/client connected, what are you gaining with the HD-200?

[CollinR]

Reliability, the HD200 just works...

No viruses, no malware, no trojans, no "critial" updates, no antivirus, no decoders, no installs that botch your decoders.

The VGA cable is still connected but it hasn't been accessed in months, but if I need it I can do as originally there was a PC client with both HDMI and VGA I just moved the HDMI over and left the VGA as it was.

[xxLJLxx]

Originally Posted by CollinR

I also have a the server's video to the display, VGA = SageTV HDMI = HD200. It's been ages since I have changed sources though.

Reliability, the HD200 just works...

No viruses, no malware, no trojans, no "critial" updates, no antivirus, no decoders, no installs that botch your decoders.

I actually have this exact same setup. I sometimes question why I got the HD200 but I come back to the exact same reasons as CollinR. It is a lot less hassle. I guess I could try again to get the server/client going since I have started over clean with Windows 7.

[brainbone]

Originally Posted by CollinR

Reliability, the HD200 just works...

That's what I thought the answer would be -- but it shouldn't have to be. You trust a PC to run the server (the HD-200 needs it), it should be up to the task of a client.

HD-200 should only win on price, form factor, and power consumption. That the HD-200 is needed to get a quality experience (especially when used with an ATI graphics card in a client) is a failure of SageTV, not a feature.

(sorry for the rant.)

[xxLJLxx]

Originally Posted by brainbone

That's what I thought the answer would be -- but it shouldn't have to be. You trust a PC to run the server (the HD-200 needs it), it should be up to the task of a client.

These are the thoughts that occasionally come back to me. I think once I can get some more space, I'll work on getting the server/client back to being fully functional again.

[Greg]

Originally Posted by lovingHDTV

Extenders are cheaper, easier, better so . . . Why build yet another PC?

1. DVD/blu-ray drive, I need one in/near/adjacent to the playback device. There are hacks to try and work around this, but none that are acceptable to me.
2. I browse/stream outside SageTV regularly
3. I prefer a keyboard to a remote for searching, even in SageTV
dave

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I also have stuck to an HTPC for a few reasons:

1. Full BD Support (via ArcSoft TMT3 and my plugin)
2. Hulu Desktop (far supperior to the PlayOn workarounds)
3. Big Screen PC Gaming (In Stereo3D for me)

Browsing/streaming is the number one reason that I think I would need an HTPC (just for the family room, HD-200's everywhere else). I like shows on TNT, but I don't think they're on Playon and I haven't found them anywhere else, other than the TNT website.

It really seems like a waste to have an HTPC just to stream the few shows that I can't get anywhere else. I guess that I would have to add gaming to make the investment justifiable..........not a big gamer, but I'm sure that I could find something!

Originally Posted by dcardellini

.....and for very few of us:

...if you want to get rid of audio components (pre/pro or receiver), an HTPC can output 7.1 analog channels directly to a power amp, with Dolby/DTS fully decoded.

That would save a pretty pricey box!

Thanks for the input,

Greg

[Fuzzy]

It really depends on what you are running for a server. I didn't have to add anything to my server to give it full client client capabilities (aside from long cables), so it was a no brainer.

For me, HD-200 is probably better than a dedicated PC client... but if you're already running a PC full-time for the server, it isn't much mroe to make it also a very good client. (To be fair, I set this thing up before there WAS an HD-200)

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by brainbone

That's what I thought the answer would be -- but it shouldn't have to be. You trust a PC to run the server (the HD-200 needs it), it should be up to the task of a client.

Media playback, especially video, and double-especially HD video, is a whole different ball of wax than shifting around data (as is the case when dealing with recording from hardware-encode or digital tuners).

HD-200 should only win on price, form factor, and power consumption. That the HD-200 is needed to get a quality experience (especially when used with an ATI graphics card in a client) is a failure of SageTV, not a feature.

It's a failure of PCs (not limiting it to Windows as IMO linux is worse, and I don't know about Mac), not Sage. The problem is PCs are multipurpose, non-real-time systems. They constantly have background processes running that have nothing to do with Sage or media playback, and due to the design of the system, it's completely possible for those processes to cause problems with media playback.

And then there's the fact that there's nearly infinite permutations of software and specifically decoder configurations that are impossible to deterministically code for.

Unlike the HD200 which has dedicated hardware video decoders and audio DSPs (separate from the general purpose CPU), and is designed from the ground up for nothing but media playback.

[brainbone]

Originally Posted by stanger89

It's a failure of PCs (not limiting it to Windows as IMO linux is worse, and I don't know about Mac), not Sage. \
And then there's the fact that there's nearly infinite permutations of software and specifically decoder configurations that are impossible to deterministically code for.

SageTV Client/Server ships with video/audio decoders (Main Concept decoders). These decoders are perfectly capable of producing consistent quality HD output on most modern PCs OUTSIDE of SageTV. It is a failure of SageTV to not produce the same results IN SageTV.

Yes, the PC is open to issues (OS configuration, drivers, hardware quality, etc.), but they are an over used excuse here, and these excuses need to end or we'll see no improvement in the situation for the SageTV client.

When the same video stream recorded by a SageTV server can be played perfectly outside of SageTV, on the same PC, using the same graph, but has trouble IN SageTV, this points to SageTV as being the issue --an issue the developers are aware of, but seem to have put a very low priority on.

[CollinR]

What are you talking about? How would you use the SageTV MPEG2 or MPEG4 decoders outside of SageTV? FFMPEG is not the same thing...

Never had the issue you discribed with playback sucessful outside of Sage, my issues were more related to other processes on the machine causing problems. Antivirus scans, installs that change your graph priorities. Not to mention it's much harder to lock down a PC as compared to the HD200/MVP.

Mine worked fine and when it didn't I could always resolve it, however the HD200 does work better. As was mentioned all it does is playback as such it's much better at it.