CableCard OEM Restriction Lifted!!!

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by TheraEdge

Wow, this thread went all over the place. Back to the original topic. I'm excited about the possibility of an M-Card CableCARD multi-tuner solution for my PC. I will have to do some more research on Win7 MC to see if I can really tolerate it and and xBox extender however.

• I'm sad SageTV will probably not be involved.
• I don't like having to put up with the obscure provider restriction features of CableCARD DRM, but am willing to tolerate a certain level of DRM for the ability of recording to my PVR like this. As Fuzzy & PluckyHD stated, I'm happy if I can record my shows and watch them, typically again and again, saving them as long as I want. I also agree DVD/Blu-rays are great if you like something well enough to keep forever and watch over and over again.
• I agree the CableCARD debacle to this point has been ridiculous, but I can't believe this is a step in the WRONG direction for CableCARD. Regrettably it is a step in only the Microsoft direction, interpret that as good/bad as you will.
• I just can't get myself on the Hauppauge HD-PVR route with a kludged together solution at the $225 price point for one tuner requiring a separate STB for each tuner, even if it is a great solution.

I really appreciated the good and the bad discussion of CableCARD DRM throughout the post, although it got a little fanatical and repetitive around page 6. These have really helped inform me of the possibilities & issues of this solution. As it stands I'm going to have to say, that some of the CC DRM goes way to far:

• Auto deleting recordings after an expiration date. (even the ability to do this is going too far even if it isn't used)
• The inability to record content not allowed by content creators. (if DRM is provided, this ability is just unjust)
• The inability to copy media to a portable device. (I know it isn't as simple as this, but devices that support copy protection should be allowed, although I could live without this, or deal with some type of work around if I truly desire it.)

These CC DRM abilities need to be squashed. Can someone get on the legal action to deem those activities illegal for content providers?

I'm curious, what 'law' are you saying the Cable Companies are breaking here?

[Naylia]

I don't think he's saying that there is a law the cable companies are breaking, more that we need to ring up a congressman and get ourselves a law passed to protect/enable consumer rights.

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by Naylia

I don't think he's saying that there is a law the cable companies are breaking, more that we need to ring up a congressman and get ourselves a law passed to protect/enable consumer rights.

[HERESY]

Our rights as consumers are to have products that are not hazardous. Beyond that, if you do not like the price or conditions placed on you for using the product, don't buy it. No way should congress be passing laws telling companies what they can and can't broadcast, how much they charge for it, and under what conditions they must offer it. I'm tired of congress trying to save me from myself.

[/HERESY]

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

[HERESY]

Our rights as consumers are to have products that are not hazardous. Beyond that, if you do not like the price or conditions placed on you for using the product, don't buy it. No way should congress be passing laws telling companies what they can and can't broadcast, how much they charge for it, and under what conditions they must offer it. I'm tired of congress trying to save me from myself.

[/HERESY]

While I do agree with this to a certain extent, the market always favors itself over consumers. You'd think that since the market is supposed to be serving consumers that their business by necessity would be pro-consumer. But this is not the case.

If anything it's been shown that completely free markets don't work as they are intended. They are inherently self serving, particularly when there is little to no competition. Which is the case with paid television. In those cases there is no economic incentive for the market to serve their customers. They can basically set their rules and rates at what the market can bear without regard to the consumer.

In Oklahoma City area you have one of a few choices. Cox Cable, Dish, DirecTV, and in some areas of the city AT&T's Uverse. Only a single cable TV provider. If there were true free market competition there would be multiples of a single type of service as there is with satellite. The only wrench in the works for Cox is AT&T's Uverse but it is not universally available throughout the city.

I don't know about television service but the results of all this is that when you specifically look at internet service is that we in the US pay more money for less speed than most of the rest of the world.

[tmiranda]

Yes, I agree with most of that as well. It's the lack of competition that creates most of the "anti-consumer" behavior of cable companies. I just think the solution to the problem is to entice more competition, not create more regulation. Just my $0.02

Now back to your regularly scheduled forum .....

[jgscott987]

I very much believe in a hands-off government, but monopolies like the cable company (or the electric company) absolutely require some regulation. It would be impossible (and stupid) for a new company to come in and lay new cable all over the country, just to be able to compete with the incumbents. Monopolies are specifically prohibited under US law unless an exception is granted. In return for that exception, the cable provider agrees to abide by government regulation regarding fairness in pricing and service.

For better or for worse, it is up to the government to determine what the market would look like if there were competition. The government must then pressure the company to provide fair services and prices. The incentive, of course, is the threat that the company will be broken up (like AT&T ~20 years ago).

It's not a good system, but it is the only system that makes sense when you have a massive capital infrastructure like the cable, telephone, and electric companies. The barriers to entry are exponentially too high to expect competition to enter the market.

[MitchSchaft]

huh?

[Fuzzy]

The cable co's are NOT monopolies. In fact, most of their exclusive right-of-way leases with the municipal governments have already been thrown out. This is why FiOs and UVerse have been able to start rolling out to the same areas that cable companies already exist. Satellite has for MANY years offered a perfectly reasonable alternative to cable.

[toricred]

The AT&T breakup was way more than 20 years ago. It was more like 35 years ago.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by toricred

The AT&T breakup was way more than 20 years ago. It was more like 35 years ago.

1984 - 26 years ago.

[toricred]

The lawsuit that started it was filed in 1974.

[sdsean]

Just catching up here, but on cetoncorp.com, they say the quad cable card tuner will be available march 31 2010. (and also at a retail price of $400, wow).

Now I gotta say even for that steep price. . . that's pretty sweet. . . anyone think sage would support it?

[stanger89]

Don't hold your breath for direct, DRM-including support.

[Naylia]

Originally Posted by tmiranda

[HERESY]

Our rights as consumers are to have products that are not hazardous.

[/HERESY]

I'm pretty sure that DRM is hazardous to my health. Through the frustration it causes me I have increased stress levels. This is likely leading to higher blood pressure and greater likelihood of experiencing earlier than usual cardiac health issues. I should probably start looking for a lawyer....maybe we could get a class action lawsuit going...there must be thousands of people with DRM induced health problems to be found out there.

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by Naylia

I'm pretty sure that DRM is hazardous to my health. Through the frustration it causes me I have increased stress levels. This is likely leading to higher blood pressure and greater likelihood of experiencing earlier than usual cardiac health issues. I should probably start looking for a lawyer....maybe we could get a class action lawsuit going...there must be thousands of people with DRM induced health problems to be found out there.

[tmiranda]

I called my cable company's tech support to ask them about using the Ceton card. They told me it would cost me $15 to have the tech come to my house to install and configure the cable card and after that there was no additional monthly cost since I will simply be replacing the STB that I currently have.

[Fuzzy]

Hopefully their DRM policy is such that you aren't stuck with 7MC... ;-)

[crobs808]

I never understood what the big deal about Cable Cards was...I mean most people have stand alone DVRs that record from the boxes to themselves, then there are simple hacks out there to just drag the files off your DVR onto your network, and play them from anywhere. I am surprised Cable Cards are even still a used technology.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by crobs808

I am surprised Cable Cards are even still a used technology.

What's the alternative? You have to do access control somehow, and given the FCC's separable security requirement, there really isn't anything besides cable card.

[Taddeusz]

It was a whole deal with the FCC having to do with separable encryption. The original intent was that a person could go out and buy the STB or other device of their choice and then rent only the encryption portion, the CableCard, from their cable company.

The reality of the situation is far different. The people who actually care about access to encrypted cable content are very few, even when you include CableCard capable Tivo users. As a result most people still rent the whole STB or DVR from their cable company, which now includes a pre-installed CableCard. At least this is the case unless you get your service from Comcast who received an exception from the FCC to provide encrypted content via STB's without separable encryption.

DRM discussions aside, the idea wasn't completely horrible. It could have provided an entirely new outlet for ease of use to cable subscribers. However, rental of STB's is a cash cow for the industry. This is pure speculation on my part but I'm sure the MPAA and major networks have had a part in preventing CableCard from becoming more popular among DVR/PVR systems. The only notable exception is Microsoft with Media Center who has the clout and financial backing to wage a sort of battle, even if only half heartedly.

Unless CableCard or the coming Tru2way become more open or Cable Labs significantly reduces the licensing costs I doubt we'll see many small players entering the fray to create compatible devices and software.