CableCard OEM Restriction Lifted!!!

[doncote0]

http://www.cetoncorp.com/buy.php

Pretty cool. Would be nice to have a dumbed down CableCard device that only allow non-protected content through.

I know a few non Sage users that have stand alone PVR's that do not have the ability to use IR blasters. They are more annoyed than we are (quite a bit more).


More interesting news for CableCard devices from both Hauppauge and Silicondust.

http://www.geektonic.com/2010/01/hau...rd-device.html

[doncote0]

Before anyone asks "the four channels" means four tuners not actual channels available.

[doncote0]

As I am sure someone else may have pointed out, you will not need a DTA for channels 2-99 (or 2-30 or whatever your analog feed is). Analog channels are the same channel that currently exists in the digital signal except that they have gone through the digital to analog conversion.

That means any channel broadcast in analog format is being broadcast twice since it is also broadcast in digital.

If that seems hard to believe, ask those who use the HDHR (only digital tuners) if they get the analog channels.

They do, but may say the image seems "cleaner" (benefit of the digital signal).

[Fuzzy]

Originally Posted by doncote0

As I am sure someone else may have pointed out, you will not need a DTA for channels 2-99 (or 2-30 or whatever your analog feed is). Analog channels are the same channel that currently exists in the digital signal except that they have gone through the digital to analog conversion.

That means any channel broadcast in analog format is being broadcast twice since it is also broadcast in digital.

If that seems hard to believe, ask those who use the HDHR (only digital tuners) if they get the analog channels.

They do, but may say the image seems "cleaner" (benefit of the digital signal).

There is no guarantee that this is the case. There is no requirement for the cable operator to broadcast the analog channels in digital as well, as most boxes in use still support analog tuning. I'm sure MOST do carry all analog's on digital, but you can't guarantee that.

[doncote0]

The requirement does exist. The analog to digital conversion required that 100% of all provided programming be provided in digital format. Remember that government subsidy for converting? So any channel provided by the cable company after the conversion must, at a minimum, be provided in digital format.

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by doncote0

The requirement does exist. The digital to analog conversion required that 100% of all provided programming be provided in digital format. Remember that government subsidy for converting? So any channel provided by the cable company after the conversion must, at a minimum, be provided in digital format.

I think you're getting the OTA TV digital transition confused with the cable digital transition. The cable digital transition has largely been unregulated. The only regulation that comes to mind was a requirement to continue sending local broadcast network channels in out in analog form unless the cable provider moves entirely digital.

[doncote0]

I think you're getting the OTA TV digital transition confused with the cable digital transition.

It was supposed to happen at the same time but the Cable companies requested an extension due to STB production and planning issues. The subsidy still exists in the form of two basic DTA STB's that are provided free of charge*.

The cable digital transition has largely been unregulated.

True. In general, they have admitted that the change over was not smooth and realized that they missed PVR's, digital TV's other devices that were in many ways reduced or eliminated from funtionality.

The only regulation that comes to mind was a requirement to continue sending local broadcast network channels in out in analog form unless the cable provider moves entirely digital.

That is true but only half true. This was supposed to allow customers and providers more time to receive and setup the STB's while still providing the FCC required emergency response channels (local channels) in analog. Many providers did the conversion in two or more steps. Once the provider is ready, they can continue or discontinue broadcasting in analog as they wish*.

The broadcast of locals in analog was not intended to replace the requirement to broadcast them in digital*.

*If the cable company takes away analog channels, at least two of these adapters must be provided for free by the cable company for at least three years (until June 2012), so that customers can continue to watch the channels they have paid for. That means after 2012 cable customers may have to pay for the dumb DTA's.

[Fuzzy]

I still don't think there is ANY regulatory requirement for cable companies to transition to digital at all. If they choose, they are fully allowed to continue to broadcast in analog. It is business reasons that they choosed to move to digital. That being the capability to compress video and put more channels in their stream, and to encrypt their broadcast, to better control theft.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

I still don't think there is ANY regulatory requirement for cable companies to transition to digital at all. If they choose, they are fully allowed to continue to broadcast in analog. It is business reasons that they choosed to move to digital. That being the capability to compress video and put more channels in their stream, and to encrypt their broadcast, to better control theft.

I believe there actually is. If they don't transition fully to digital and distrubute DTA's they are required to at least carry all local content in analog until February 2012.

Cox Cable has publicly stated that nothing will change at least until the 2012 date. And because they are not a publicly traded company they have no public records of their transition plans.

[doncote0]

Taddeusz is right. The large and expensive cable companies were granted a 3 year extension from the original June 2009 deadline to convert analog to digital.

So strictly speaking, it is largely unregulated...for now.

[reggie14]

doncote0-

I still think you're getting a bunch of separate things related to the OTA digital transition and the cable digital transition confused with one another.

There is no requirement for cable companies to move to digital cable TV. For the most part, the FCC doesn't care what cable companies do on their own lines. The OTA transition freed up a lot of spectrum space so the government could auction it off. The government can't auction off spectrum on the cable companies' lines. But, cable companies can use that to add more HD channels, or speed up Internet speeds. So, they're the ones that are pushing the move to digital cable.

However, the FCC did update its must-carry rules for cable TV providers. To ensure people with analog-only TVs can still get channels as long as is reasonably possible, the FCC decided to force cable companies to continue providing must-carry channels in analog until 2012, unless the cable company goes all digital before that date. Originally that date was in 2009, but they pushed it back when the OTA transition was put off. The cable companies are perfectly free to continue providing analog channels after that date, they're just not obligated to.

Then there's the issue with STBs and DTAs. Those devices are not subsidized by the government. Only OTA digital tuners are being subsidized, since that's the only digital transition the government forced. If cable companies switch to all-digital cable, they have to make sure that everyone has a DTA or STB, but I don't think they need to provide any for free. It seems like most cable companies do offer a DTA or two for free, but I believe that's only because cities with whom they have franchise agreements forced them to.

[doncote0]

Reggie,

I am not sure how helpful it is to tell someone they are mixed up and then restate the same thing they already stated.

but I don't think they need to provide any for free

Based on what? I got my information from FCC.gov
(I realized now they may not have told you.)

[MitchSchaft]

About as helpful as you spreading bad info

[doncote0]

Or as helpful as a posting with sole purpose of insulting without actually contributing anything to the conversation.

Here are some sources:

http://www.tvsquad.com/2007/09/15/fc...-through-2012/

http://tech.yahoo.com/blog/devlin/15959

http://gizmodo.com/299239/fcc-extend...ort-until-2012

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital..._United_States

[doncote0]

After chewing on the scads of good and bad information on the topic and reading through too much FCC material, the following items have become clear.

1. The June 12, 2012 deadline is the end of the grace period that cable providers must provide a way to get local analog programming to their subscribers without charging more. This means they must either keep local channels analog, provide free STB's or dual broadcast in both analog and digital.

2. After June12, 2012, providers can force all broadcasts to 100% digital, and they can charge for all STB's that were previously provided at no charge during the grace period.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by doncote0

Or as helpful as a posting with sole purpose of insulting without actually contributing anything to the conversation.

Here are some sources:

http://www.tvsquad.com/2007/09/15/fc...-through-2012/

http://tech.yahoo.com/blog/devlin/15959

http://gizmodo.com/299239/fcc-extend...ort-until-2012

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital..._United_States

Well according to your own links "The DTV transition in the United States was the switchover from analog (the traditional method of transmitting television signals) to exclusively digital broadcasting of free over-the-air television programming." (Emphasis added by me.)

It had nothing to do with cable. For cable they are switching to digital because they can cram more signals down that cable with digital compared to analog. And they have more control over that signal.

What cable companies are being forced to do is to continue to support analog television until 2012. If it was up to them they would eliminate analog altogther much sooner. It's more profitable, they can send more channels with the same or even lesser amount of equipment.

Gerry

[doncote0]

Thanks Gerry. That is correct, and adds emphasis to the post immediately prior to yours.

[MitchSchaft]

Thanks for the correct info, Gerry .

[reggie14]

Originally Posted by doncote0

1. The June 12, 2012 deadline is the end of the grace period that cable providers must provide a way to get local analog programming to their subscribers without charging more. This means they must either keep local channels analog, provide free STB's or dual broadcast in both analog and digital.

Do you have a source for your "without charging more" requirement? I'm not necessarily saying it isn't true, but I've never seen anything that says cable companies are required by the FCC to provide DTAs or STBs to customers for free in all-digital areas. The FCC has a consumer page on the cable TV digital transition, and it explicitly says you may have to rent/purchase equipment.

It's my understanding that cable companies are often providing free STBs/DTAs because of agreement with local jurisdictions (mostly municipalities), and/or in order to not piss off too many customers.

[TheraEdge]

Wow, this thread went all over the place. Back to the original topic. I'm excited about the possibility of an M-Card CableCARD multi-tuner solution for my PC. I will have to do some more research on Win7 MC to see if I can really tolerate it and and xBox extender however.

• I'm sad SageTV will probably not be involved.
• I don't like having to put up with the obscure provider restriction features of CableCARD DRM, but am willing to tolerate a certain level of DRM for the ability of recording to my PVR like this. As Fuzzy & PluckyHD stated, I'm happy if I can record my shows and watch them, typically again and again, saving them as long as I want. I also agree DVD/Blu-rays are great if you like something well enough to keep forever and watch over and over again.
• I agree the CableCARD debacle to this point has been ridiculous, but I can't believe this is a step in the WRONG direction for CableCARD. Regrettably it is a step in only the Microsoft direction, interpret that as good/bad as you will.
• I just can't get myself on the Hauppauge HD-PVR route with a kludged together solution at the $225 price point for one tuner requiring a separate STB for each tuner, even if it is a great solution.

I really appreciated the good and the bad discussion of CableCARD DRM throughout the post, although it got a little fanatical and repetitive around page 6. These have really helped inform me of the possibilities & issues of this solution. As it stands I'm going to have to say, that some of the CC DRM goes way to far:

• Auto deleting recordings after an expiration date. (even the ability to do this is going too far even if it isn't used)
• The inability to record content not allowed by content creators. (if DRM is provided, this ability is just unjust)
• The inability to copy media to a portable device. (I know it isn't as simple as this, but devices that support copy protection should be allowed, although I could live without this, or deal with some type of work around if I truly desire it.)

These CC DRM abilities need to be squashed. Can someone get on the legal action to deem those activities illegal for content providers?

I agree that DRM is frustrating and all media would be better without it. The problem is the shear number of people in the masses out there that have no respect or iota of regret about what comes down to ripping off content. This is what makes DRM necessary. I'm not saying it is good or a great solution, but I've been shocked about the kind of people I have met that just believe it is OK to get something for free if they can instead of paying for it. If it is DRM free it makes it easy for the masses. Which is exactly what happened with the Napster era. That kind of steeling didn't really feel like steeling so the masses figured it must be OK. It's sad, I wish the world could be trusted to police itself with Fair Use, but it has proven it can't.

Plucky, you got me salivating with your mysterious, 'Media Center perception is going to change drastically in the next year, but I can't share,' comment over on geektonic.