We Really Need Some Warning Messages For Recording Problems!

[sleonard]

Originally Posted by dstanley

Wayner: Here is the spot to change:
Settings - Settings - SET: Power-On Keys - Power and Numeric

This lets firewire or USB-UIRT turn on the box when it sets the channel.
Just FYI I also have set the "Always Tune Channel" in the Sage properties so that a channel command is always sent before an attempted recording happens. this works for me - hope it does for you!

Sorry for the thread interuption ...

Thank you for finding and posting that setting. Damn cableco turns my boxes off every month or two and I never notice until it is too late. Never again.

One caveat - if the box was already on the channel before it was turned off then the channel change will not power it back on. A small batch file that will run the firewire command to change the channel to something not in the guide (guaranteeing that the box is not already tuned to it) and scheduled to run every day at 4 or 5 am should take care of that.

Thanks again,

S

[briands]

If it can't be automatic, at least a monitor function would be nice. Here's what I posted previously as well as to Sage as a feature request.

Recording monitor for each encoder...

Let me explain. In some complex systems, there are external sources that are feeding intermediate encoders that feed the recordings to Sage. In many cases these sources are controlled by methods that may on occasion be less than perfectly reliable. These sources may also have their own quirks such that tuning to a channel that is unavailable may prevent success of future channel change activities. On top of that, each of the devices in these chains has their own opportunity to hiccup and need a jumpstart.

Add to this that these entire stacks of equipment are often in a closet somewhere out of the way and you can see the need for a quick monitoring of recordings or status even if the unit is not recording currently.

I see this - on the encoder setup screen a status for each encoder (what it is recording) and a button to monitor it.
If it is recording, you would just view the current recording (NOW, not from the beginning of the file). Maybe include some troubleshooting buttons like allowing a channel change pass through, or power cycle IR command. Also an option to delete as the wrong recording and look for future airings.

If the encoder is inactive, it would simply do "live TV" with the encoder. This would also have similar troubleshooting to above.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by sleonard

One caveat - if the box was already on the channel before it was turned off then the channel change will not power it back on. A small batch file that will run the firewire command to change the channel to something not in the guide (guaranteeing that the box is not already tuned to it) and scheduled to run every day at 4 or 5 am should take care of that.

But isn't this a Sage issue, not a STB issue. Therefore a batch file wouldn't help unless you were using the batch file to call Sage to change the channel.

For example, if Sage thinks it is on channel 410 then will it send a channel change when it goes to record? I actually think that Sage, by default, always sends a channel change. I think this is determined by the always tune channel setting in the Advanced Settings menu.

When I tried this and pressed a number key it didn't matter to the STB if I was tuning to the channel it was already on - it came on with the press of the first button - for example if I was on channel 410 and then shut my box off and then pressed 4 it came on immediately. And it works exactly the same for firewire channel changes as IR changes.

[sleonard]

Originally Posted by wayner

But isn't this a Sage issue, not a STB issue. Therefore a batch file wouldn't help unless you were using the batch file to call Sage to change the channel.

For example, if Sage thinks it is on channel 410 then will it send a channel change when it goes to record? I actually think that Sage, by default, always sends a channel change. I think this is determined by the always tune channel setting in the Advanced Settings menu.

When I tried this and pressed a number key it didn't matter to the STB if I was tuning to the channel it was already on - it came on with the first press of a button.

My testing was with firewire and SA3250 boxes. I called Tim Moore's channel change utility directly from the command line bypassing Sage altogether. Here's what I found -

Test 1:

1. Tune box to 200
2. Turn off box
3. Send command to change channel to 205

Result: The STB turned on and tuned to 205

Test 2:

1. Tune box to 200
2. Turn off box
3. Send command to change channel to 200

Result: The STB remained off

Here is what my bat file would do at 4 am

channel.exe -v 4 800

If the box had remained on all night then it would simply get a command to change the channel to 800.

If the STB had been turned off then the command would turn on the box and change the channel to 800.

800 is a valid channel as far as the STB is concerned but is not enabled in the Sage guide (it is one of the music channels). Therefore there is no way that Sage could leave the box on 800.

S

[wayner]

I apologize - you are correct. This is a definite downside to using firewire vs. IR as the box does turn on as soon as you press any of the number buttons on the remote. It almost seems to me like the channel command doesn't bother sending the channel change info if it is already on that channel. I tried using the different -a commands and none of them helped?

I wonder if it works the same way if the channel change is done through Sage - I imagine it would since I believe that Sage just calls the channelw.exe application.

The only thing that I am hoping is that if the box does do a total reboot then perhaps it will work. I imagine that would be the case when an update is applied which is why we find the box with the power off.

We could probably test this by setting to channel 200, unplugging cable box, replug box and let it boot up. Then send the channel command to change to 200.

[sleonard]

Yes, there seems to be two-way comms with firewire and, therefore, channel.exe can see that the box is already tuned to the correct channel even though the box is off. (Probably because it is in a soft off state not truly powered off).

Thats a good hypothesis that if the cableco reboots after an update this problem won't matter. Nonetheless I created a simple .bat file that will send a channel change to channel 800 on each of my boxes and scheduled that for 4:30 am every day.

Before I go to bed tonight I'll turn one of the boxes and check it in the morning just to see if the task scheduler and .bat are set up properly to run without a user logged in. Tomorrow night I'll unplug/replug the same one and see how that works.

S

[sleonard]

This morning I tuned one of the STB's to 200, unplugged/replugged it and waited until it had rebooted. When it was fully up I sent the channel change to 200 and it did wake up and tune to 200 so your hypothesis was correct. No need for my script.

S

[PLUCKYHD]

I am curious as to why so many hdhr failings?? Coming from Vista Media center I hardly ever had the hdhomerun fail.

I haven't had a failed one yet either in sage

Do you guys direct connect or over a network?

Do you have static ip's assigned to the hdhr?

Are you running ups for power blips (on the switch/router as well as the hdhr)?

Just curios as I am seeing allot of hdhr failures.

Also a notice would be nice.

[jpwegas]

Originally Posted by wayner

I have been thinking about how to determine whether Sage does receive a valid signal. The reason that this would most likely happen in my instance is if one (or more likely all) of my STBs have powered down. Every couple of months or so all of my STBs will power themselves off - I believe this is after a software upgrade. If I knew that there was no valid signal then I could have my USB-UIRT send a power toggle to my boxes (unfortunately most SA boxes do not have a discrete power on).

The best method that I have thought of to do this is to set a short timed recording each day and then process this through comskip. Comskip gives data like maximum volume, average volume, average brightness etc in its log file. The idea is to parse through the comskip .log file and use these parameters to decide if the box was on or not. Ideally you might want to do this everyday on a channel which should have a uniform picture - the music channels on my digital cable system might fit this description.

I had a similar problem recently and was thinking along the same lines.

However, in my case, the STB is connected to a PVR-500, and I realized that when the STB is off, the encoder on the PVR-500 can't see a valid NTSC signal, so there is nothing to encode, and so the recording file stays at zero length as long as there is no valid signal.

So if you are using a setup similar to mine, I suspect you can skip the comskip analysis and just check the file size a few seconds after the recording is suppose to start.

--John

[wayner]

Originally Posted by jpwegas

However, in my case, the STB is connected to a PVR-500, and I realized that when the STB is off, the encoder on the PVR-500 can't see a valid NTSC signal, so there is nothing to encode, and so the recording file stays at zero length as long as there is no valid signal.

You could easily create a task in SJQ that would notify you via email if one of your recordings was a zero length file. If you are like me and carry a Blackberry that you constantly check then you would be able to respond to this issue pretty quickly. I could swear that my PVR-150 creates a non-zero length file. I am surprised that the PVR-150 and PVR-500 are different in this manner as I thought that the 500 was essentially the same as the 150 except it had two tuners.

[jpwegas]

Originally Posted by wayner

I could swear that my PVR-150 creates a non-zero length file. I am surprised that the PVR-150 and PVR-500 are different in this manner as I thought that the 500 was essentially the same as the 150 except it had two tuners.

That is my understanding as well (500 == 2x 150).

The case I saw it in recently was when my STB turned itself off at some point overnight and I didn't notice right away. In the process of debugging I noticed that the show it was "recording" was zero length.

I suspect that if the STB is sending a signal but the screen is black (think "screen saver mode", although my STB doesn't have that that I know of) then there will be a file.

But I have not done exhaustive testing on all the combinations. I may have time to check it out in more detail this weekend.

--John

[wayner]

I will try shutting my cable box off and recording a show on the PVR-150 to see what happens.

[jpwegas]

Oh, I should note that I'm running my Sage server on Linux, so although I suspect the decision/ability to encode or not (based on whether there is a valid signal) happens at the hardware level, if that decision is made at the driver level, that could account for the difference in behavior we are seeing.

--John

[jpwegas]

Tonight I ran across this page:

http://evuraan.blogspot.com/2008/01/...ox-stb-is.html

It uses the "jp2a" (jpeg to ASCII!) program (on Ubuntu Linux) to try detect whether the STB is on or not. I'm not sure how easy it would be to use this script on Windows, but it might provide some hints if you decide to detect a blank screen.

--John

[freedml]

It is really frustrating when SageTV doesn't record your Favorites. It is more frustrating when this happens for hours before you figure it out. And, it is the MOST frustrating when it could have been predicted and avoided!!!

One problem I had a few months ago was that the antenna got disconnected, so there was no signal on any channels. SageTV just kept merrily recording blank screens until I found out by trying to play them the next day.

Last night, none of our shows was recorded. For some reason the EPG shows 'No Data' for most of the channels. I forced an update, and now it looks fine. But, SageTV knew it had problems with EPG updates for as many as 10 days, could see 'No Data' coming up for channels it records daily and could have given a warning!

SageTV NEEDS an option to tell the user when there are problems like these. SageTV warns us when there are recording conflicts. It seems to me that problems which result in total recording failure are more deserving of a warning than recording a less-favorite show over a more-favorite show.

* merged *

[coaxial]

warnings would be nice, like an alert thing similar to the conflict alerting.

This is a problem with windows media center too. I have recorded a lot of blank shows because the cable box has turned off. Every now and then it will pop up and say it is unable to record because the tuner is not there or something.

Detecting all black should be pretty easy though

[Skirge01]

I have to agree. I have email set up for WHS events, as well as for FlexRAID issues. Some sort of emailing capability would be perfect. When my HD-PVR suddenly stops recording, I'd love to know about it.

[wayner]

You guys aren't the only ones to request this http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40053

[cncb]

Ugh! This happened again last night. Although no power interruptions this time. The HDHR was just not tuning anything for some reason but Sage just went on recording things as usual with no indication that there was a problem. Do others with the HDHR find that they have to power cycle them once in a while for no apparent reason?

[Skirge01]

I have never needed to powercycle my HDHR since installation about 2 months ago. I have powered it down every so often for other reasons, however. My only issues with the HDHR are related to very rare, spotty reception (usually wind-related), which obviously is not the HDHR's fault. Other than that, it's solid as a rock. I know what they've said, but I sure wish Silicon Dust would make an HD-PVR-type of device.

I'd like to know Sage's official stance on warning messages. Do they see this as an issue? Are they working on something?