FreeView picture quality via Sage

[enterpryse]

When I watch Freeview via a proper digibox the picture is quite acceptable, when I watch it using the Hauppauge Nova 500T dual tuner card its pretty crappy by comparison. Recorded DVD's are fine so I suspect something wrong with the Nova card or its settings, or the way Sages records/encodes it.

Has anyone any suggestions please

Thanks

Stuart

[MCE-Refugee]

Neither Sage nor the Nova-T do anything to the DVB-T signal when recorded. They simply take the MPEG2 stream & record it to disk unchanged. Assuming that you have a reasonable signal & the picture isn't breaking up for that reason then your problem is all to do with playback. To diagnose it you will have to define "pretty crappy" a bit more specifically.

BTW Are you comparing Freeview on a TV versus Sage on a monitor? If so what type & size of each.

[doc]

I don't have any problems with my nova-t-500.

I had to get a new aerial put on the roof but once that was done the pq has been great.

I playback mainly on a 19" lcd tv via an HD100 or on a 21" crt from an MVP. I also have 2 nova-s2-hd cards for freesat and I can't tell what records on which card, it all looks identical.

As MCE-Refugee says, how are you playing back your recordings? on an extender or through a PC? If a PC, have you tried playing the recordings through other media players and comparing them?

[enterpryse]

Thanks for the replies guys...

OK the system is server based and using the HD200 (MVP prior to that). The monitor is a 37"LCD

The pictures are solid, not breaking up from lack of signal but when I refer to crappy piccis I mean that I see the standard sort of block effect. The pics are easily watchable I just find it annoying to see such a big difference between Sky and Freeview.

OH BTW its the same on the Technotrend DVB-S card BUT recorded DVD's are fine

I suppose it may be signal quality, Im just not convinced.

everythiung is set to max quality in sage.

[doc]

I took my HD200 to my dads and brothers and used it on their 37" LCD TV's in standalone mode last week so I know what you're getting at.

The quality is definately better on the 19" TV compared to the 37".

That said, I watched a movie that was on the other week and it appeared much better than the normal recorded shows.

I was wondering if its a scaling issue. One of the TV's I tried it on was 1080p and the other was 720p, though I did cycle through all options available - 576p. 720p. 1080i and 1080p. I've only used it in standalone mode on these 2 TV's, never in extender mode. Both of the TV's I tried it on were Samsungs.

My 19" TV (cheapo from Next) is 1440x900 and I've used it with an HD100 and HD200 (in extender mode only). With it set to 576p, 720p or 1080i I don't notice any difference. The picture is perfect.

It would be interesting to see what other people think.

EDIT: In the past I thought it wasn't as good a picture because the pixels are larger. You've got me wondering now.....

[MCE-Refugee]

Originally Posted by enterpryse

OK the system is server based and using the HD200 (MVP prior to that). The monitor is a 37"LCD

The pictures are solid, not breaking up from lack of signal but when I refer to crappy piccis I mean that I see the standard sort of block effect. The pics are easily watchable I just find it annoying to see such a big difference between Sky and Freeview.

I am confused. I thought that you were comparing a standalone Freeview box versus a Nova-T as the source of Freeview in SageTV. Where does Sky come in? Are you using the same LCD TV for both Sage & standalone Freeview box? Which Freeview box? How are you connecting all these different boxes to the TV?

Originally Posted by enterpryse

OH BTW its the same on the Technotrend DVB-S card BUT recorded DVD's are fine.

I suppose it may be signal quality, Im just not convinced.

everythiung is set to max quality in sage.

It cannot be because of signal strength. Like the Nova-T the Technotrend DVB-S card just grabs the MPEG2 stream & records it to disk. A poor signal gives picture break-up & stuttering. There is no deterioration in picture quality with a poor signal as with analogue. In general term it's either full quality or utterly broken with nothing in between. There is no quality to set.

My Sage server has two FloppyDTV DVB-S2 tuners. The HD200 connected to a 46" LCD TV via HDMI gives just as good picture quality as a Sky HD box also connected via HDMI & much better than a standard Sky digibox connected via RGB SCART.

[enterpryse]

Originally Posted by MCE-Refugee

I am confused. I thought that you were comparing a standalone Freeview box versus a Nova-T as the source of Freeview in SageTV. Where does Sky come in? Are you using the same LCD TV for both Sage & standalone Freeview box? Which Freeview box? How are you connecting all these different boxes to the TV?

It cannot be because of signal strength. Like the Nova-T the Technotrend DVB-S card just grabs the MPEG2 stream & records it to disk. A poor signal gives picture break-up & stuttering. There is no deterioration in picture quality with a poor signal as with analogue. In general term it's either full quality or utterly broken with nothing in between. There is no quality to set.

My Sage server has two FloppyDTV DVB-S2 tuners. The HD200 connected to a 46" LCD TV via HDMI gives just as good picture quality as a Sky HD box also connected via HDMI & much better than a standard Sky digibox connected via RGB SCART.

I have both Sky and Freeview boxes, either of which provide much better PQ than that coming off the HD200 and Server.

I thought the recording quality had to be set to max for best PQ am I wrong???

I am using HDMI for both Sky and Sage but SCART for the Freeview box.

Could it be an upscaling issue???

[doc]

I've been reading around various forums and was wondering if you've tried the composite output from the HD200 to your TV to see what thats like?

[bunch92]

I noticed some picture quality differences between my Pace freesat box and the DVB-S card in my HTPC. For example, when watching BBC News channel, the scrolling text at the bottom of the screen is not as sharp on the SageTV HTPC system as it is on the Pace box.

I also notice it when there are large parts of the screen that are black. The black is not as black as it should be (and sometime a bit pixelized) on the SageTV HTPC.

HD quality on the HTPC is perfect, these issues only show on SD channels, but nothing that bothers me too much.

[MCE-Refugee]

Originally Posted by doc

I've been reading around various forums and was wondering if you've tried the composite output from the HD200 to your TV to see what thats like?

I cannot imagine any circumstance where the output from composite could possibly be better than that from HDMI.

[doc]

Originally Posted by MCE-Refugee

I cannot imagine any circumstance where the output from composite could possibly be better than that from HDMI.

I agree with you but for the sake of a 2 minute test I would have thought worth it just to see what kind of picture you get. I know it won't be as good but it might reduce the blockiness and give a clue as to it being an upscaling issue or not. I'd also try connecting via component too.

As you can tell I'm certainly no expert in this field (you could say more basic than a beginner) but if the picture isn't what I'd expect, I'd try every possible combination I could and see how they compare. Just because I know what 'should' be best doesn't mean I wont look at the other options for comparison.

I was looking through threads like this one and while not identical it does show other people have similar issues.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...d.php?t=728155

[MCE-Refugee]

Originally Posted by enterpryse

I have both Sky and Freeview boxes, either of which provide much better PQ than that coming off the HD200 and Server.

I thought the recording quality had to be set to max for best PQ am I wrong???

I am using HDMI for both Sky and Sage but SCART for the Freeview box.

Could it be an upscaling issue???

I think that it's very likely that it is an upscaling issue or rather a mismatch between the HD200 output & the TV. What is the resolution of the TV & what refresh rates does it support & what is the HD200 set to? Incidentally the Sky HD digibox is the only one with an HDMI output. So are you comparing SD, HD or both?

With DVB-T & DVB-S there is no concept of Sage recording in any quality other than that which is transmitted. As I stated twice before Sage just takes the MPEG2 (or for HD MPEG4) stream & records it to disk. Whatever you change the quality to has no effect.

[MCE-Refugee]

Originally Posted by doc

I agree with you but for the sake of a 2 minute test I would have thought worth it just to see what kind of picture you get. I know it won't be as good but it might reduce the blockiness and give a clue as to it being an upscaling issue or not. I'd also try connecting via component too.

Connecting via Component may be OK or even an apparent improvement for SD channels. Component is the US equivalent of RGB. Component/RGB will deliver a far, far better picture than composite. Many LCD TVs show up the imperfections in SD TV & having a softer picture by using an analogue connection may give subjectively a better picture albeit with loss of detail.

[doc]

Enterpryse, have you had any luck improving your picture yet?

[enterpryse]

Originally Posted by doc

Enterpryse, have you had any luck improving your picture yet?

Not really TBH although I have found that by turning down the colour slightly helps a lot - most of the problem tended to be in the saturated areas of the picture.

Q. If Sage just "dumps" MPEG2 onto the drive why does it have several places to set the recording quality??

The Tv is a LG 37" full HD machine set to run at 1080p with the HD200 BTW.

So in short still looking for a satisfactory setup realising it may not be all down to the HD200

Cheers

[doc]

Originally Posted by enterpryse

Q. If Sage just "dumps" MPEG2 onto the drive why does it have several places to set the recording quality??

This dates back to analogue capture cards, like the Hauppauge pvr-150,250,350 & 500's.

The input to those is from svideo, composite or rf and the cards themselves convert the analogue signal to mpeg. The quality setting can make quite a bit of difference for those. I used to use the 'best' setting which was somewhere around 3GB/hr.

The digital cards produce smaller files but the quality is better as its not being converted on the fly.

I've been holding off buying a TV for a while. The one I want keeps going up in price but at some point I'll have to bite the bullet, and fingers crossed I wont have any issues, but I am a little nervous.

[enterpryse]

Originally Posted by doc

This dates back to analogue capture cards, like the Hauppauge pvr-150,250,350 & 500's.

The input to those is from svideo, composite or rf and the cards themselves convert the analogue signal to mpeg. The quality setting can make quite a bit of difference for those. I used to use the 'best' setting which was somewhere around 3GB/hr.

The digital cards produce smaller files but the quality is better as its not being converted on the fly.

I've been holding off buying a TV for a while. The one I want keeps going up in price but at some point I'll have to bite the bullet, and fingers crossed I wont have any issues, but I am a little nervous.

HA ! that explains that .....

I MUST PRINT THE MANUAL

[doc]

Originally Posted by enterpryse

I MUST PRINT THE MANUAL

SNAP