Clarification of what does what.....

[icel0rd]

Ok guys, there are feature overlaps for Sage Recorder and Sage TV. Does Sage Recorder have everything that Sage TV has + networked viewing, multiple tuner support, etc?

I'm confused about how this works. Is it just an add on to the Sage TV software? It seems like it might be because it doesn't feature an integrated EPG like Sage TV does.....

How are you guys marketing these products? I'm a bit confused. I really don't have a requirement for networked TV viewing or multiple tuners. I just care about the EPG, programming info, being able to record unattended and in the background. It sounds like I'd just buy Sage TV and that is all I'd need (with a subscription to the guide service).

Am I reading this correctly here? They way you guys are marketing these products makes it a little confusing to me, but looking at things carefully, it appears that they do most of the same things, but not really...... Sage Recorder looks like something you use to archive stuff or record from something other than TV since it doesnt include an EPG according to what is on the feature list. Right ?

Thanks, I look forward to using this software since XP MCE doesn't work for jack with my hauppage PVR-250 card (which I bought because it was alleged to work), but this is made to use it.

-Ice-

[Mark Lamutt]

Hello Ice. Let's see if I can answer a few of your questions.

SageRecorder is basically recording/playback software only. There is no EPG, and no way to select what to record via an EPG. You can set timers to record with SageRecorder, but it's a time based recording solution. You can record from any source as long as it can be plugged into your capture card via coax, composite or svideo.

SageTV (with the SageTV service) has the integrated EPG, from which you can do everything that you stated you want to be able to do. SageTV primarily records television from the guide, but you could also use it to record from other sources as well, if you really wanted to. It'd be kind of a roundabout setup to make it work I think, but it's doable. At least I *think* it is, as I haven't ever tried to do it.

The two are completely different programs. SageRecorder isn't an addon, or even a scaled-down version of SageTV. They serve different functions.

[Narflex]

Thanks Mark.

I'd also like to say that there is one very important thing in common between SageRecorder & SageTV.

The both use the EXACT same code/libraries/filters to do recording/playback/timeshifting. So the 'core media library' is identical for both of them. This is valuable because if means if one of them works on your system; the other will too.

Both applications are built on top of this media library. With the media library being written in Win32C++ and the SageRecorder and SageTV applications written in Java. Since Java is cross-platform and runs on any operating system it means to port SageRecorder & SageTV to another operating system only requires a new media library. You gotta love Java for that.

[icel0rd]

Great, thanks for answering my questions. That clears up things for me.

I may be buying SageTV after I try out the demo to make sure that everything works as expected. I guess the biggest thing for me is the integrated EPG. I was already able to schedule recordings and such, but this is nice and integrated, which is what I wanted all along.

I can't wait to check it out

-Ice-

[Xleon]

Mark, I have a follow up to the questions above.....

I'm deciding which to buy TV or Recorder. I've downloaded both. SageTV had a small bug on installation where when I told it I didn't have an IR transmitter installed, it would not complete the install. I restarted and everything is OK now.

I went through again and told it I was going to be using composite for the input and that I was not going to be using the EPG (being in the UK you see!). It now says I have no sources because I don't have a provider !

I wanted to use the IR receiver/transmitter and I like the fact that SageTV can be set to constantly record. This seems to suggest I should get TV over Recorder. BUT, in your reply above you said ....

--------------------
SageTV primarily records television from the guide, but you could also use it to record from other sources as well, if you really wanted to. It'd be kind of a roundabout setup to make it work I think, but it's doable. At least I *think* it is, as I haven't ever tried to do it.
--------------------

Does that mean it's difficult to make recordings WITHOUT subscribing to the SageTV service? I'm also assuming that only SageTV (not SageRecorder) will ever support the IR on my Provideo 256T?

[Narflex]

Seems like you've found a bug in SageTV's install. I'll take a look at it and fix it.

SageTV is designed so that it can work without any guide data and would work for what you mention without difficulty.

If you want to use the Provideo receiver with SageRecorder...your best bet would be Girder. I don't know how to write Girder Plugins myself, but I would happily give the code for interfacing with the Provideo IR receiver if someone else wanted to create one.

Thanks,

[Xleon]

After starting the app and shutting it down a few times, the options I couldn't set seem to have set themselves to a default, so I can now see some input.

The only problem is, it seems to have defaulted to SVHS and not composite so all my video is black and white !

[Narflex]

Xleon,

I think that's fixed in V1.1.3. It'll be available later today if you'd like to try it out. The beta releases are kept on a public FTP server at 216.98.153.67 Release notes are on that server. 1.1.3 also fixes a bunch of problems related to running SageTV without an access code like you're doing.

Thanks,

[jmeeks]

Jeff, would it be possible to add a Recording mode in SageTV that is based on a time block and channel, and be able to make that recording scedule repeatable as specified by either everyday, only certain days of the week, and weekly?

John Meeks

[Narflex]

Yeah, it's possible and it'll be done sometime in the future. The reason why it isn't in there right now is because it introduces another layer of complexity into the conflict resoltion system.....oh wait, I've added that layer for something else since then....maybe this one will show up sooner than later. I'll take a look at it.

[Xleon]

I've installed the new one, but the output is still black and white. I've deleted the registry entries, common files and reinstalled but same problem.

I think it is due to the fact Sage TV is working in NTSC and I'm PAL. I deleted the NTSC 'par' and 'hdr' files to make it see the PAL ones as default, but instead it reports on boot-up, that it has found the MPEG card but can't initialise it as it's in a 'stuck state'. I'm assuming Sage TV does work with PAL or is it just Sage Recorder?

[Narflex]

Xleon,

SageTV is setup to work with NTSC only by default (since we only have US listings). But you can override this.

To do this, first open your SageRecorder.properties file and find the line that says:
mmc/video_format_code=X

Whatever X is, change Sage.properties so it is the same.

Then add these 4 lines to Sage.properties:
seeker/recording_qualities/Great\ -\ 2GB\ per\ hr=Great(Pal),384,48000,4444444
seeker/recording_qualities/Best\ -\ 3GB\ per\ hr=Best(Pal),384,48000,6666666
seeker/recording_qualities/Good\ -\ 1.5GB\ per\ hr=Good(Pal),256,48000,3333333
seeker/recording_qualities/Fair\ -\ 1GB\ per\ hr=Fair(Pal),256,48000,2222222

Let me know how it goes. That should setup SageTV for PAL.

[Xleon]

Narflex,

Thanks. It works a treat! I'm very impressed with both programs. Only a few, very minor things I've found:

The only problems I've encountered since getting it all working, is very occasionally, the interface locks. I can hear the HDD still recording, but no picture and no response to key presses etc. It's not always repeatable so I can't give you any details on how to reproduce it.

The other thing, while watching TV, it stutters sometimes. I don't think it's the disk as the test drive I'm running it on is a IBM 9Gb 68Pin 10,000 rpm drive. I think the live TV playback is too close to the recording point. If I move the play pointer back a second or two, (hence, increasing the time/file distance between record and play) the problems go away.

A suggestion I have is that when you change channel, it doesn't start recording straight away, but leaves an adjustable gap (somewhere between 1 and 5 seconds eg.). This allows for 'channel-surfers' like myself to skip through channel faster as the PV256T is slow to start/stop. All the apps for the PV256T seem to suffer from this fact.

[Narflex]

Xleon,

When it locks, does it lock up permanently or just for a few seconds? If it's permanently, add this to the registry:
HKLM\SOFTWARE\Frey Technologies\Common\consolewin=1
as a DWORD

Then when the interface locks up, go to the DOS window that'll appear and hit Ctrl-Break on your keyboad. It 'should' print out some information, please send me that information. I say 'should' because for some reason it sometimes doesn't print anything out.

Thanks for the feedback and suggestions.

[7up]

does SageTV (not Service) include an EPG?

Could you please elaborate or explain on the feature of SageTV both with and without SageTV service.

It would be quite helpful if you included a feature table on the website so potential customers could compare or understand which features each product has.

[dkardatzke]

I explained this at your other post under General Discussion. In addition, there is a table on our website listed under "Comparisons" for either product that compares SageTV to SageRecorder.

Let me know if you feel something is missing from the comparison chart.

Thanks,
Dan