Multi-input set-top boxes and EPG

[jchiso]

Is there a way to incorporate content from a multipile-input source into the SageTV EPG? I would like to be able to tune OTA digital and DirecTV satellite channels through a set-top box and assign both to the s-video input of a PVR-350. I attempted to add the OTA digital channels as another source on the s-video input but it did away with the DirecTV EPG. I reverted to the my prior configuration of cable TV on the RF input and DirecTV on SVHS.

Anyone manage to get a similar setup working?

[jchiso]

Any experiences at all?

[gplasky]

Try adding another source. It will be the same card you have in there but you'll define a different input. Don't try to reconfigure your existing source.

Gerry

[jchiso]

Well, that gives different results, but still does not work properly.

I tried adding a new source and assigned it to s-video2 (whatever that means on a Hauppauge WinTV PVR-350) and it added the EPG info for all the local OTA channels. I used Channel Setup to remove all but the digital channels from the display. A quick check of the EPG showed the cable, DirecTV and local digital channel info properly. However, this setup plays audio, but no video from the set-top box.

I then tried adding a new source and assigning it to s-video. This intergrated the digital channels to the EPG but removed all of the DirecTV channels. I had to go back to Channel Setup and add or remove a slew of channels to return to the prior state.

There must be a way to get this to work. These multi-input boxes have been around for five years now. My only reason for buying this box was to use it with Sage, so now I'm kicking myself.

[Cayars]

What you need to do is hook one up to the coax port and one up to the svideo/sound in.

You can only have one source assigned to the SVideo at a time.

Carlo

[SHS]

SAT box multi-input are INPUT uslee one AIR and one SAT which had no problem you need SAT remote in order to switch input so you may well forget it and do belive Cable boxs are the same way as well.
The way you going make use 2nd S/Video 2 port you need make use of 13 pin A/V header port.
Multi PVR cards are better way jchiso.

[jchiso]

Using the coax out defeats the purpose of having a "many-to-one" STB. Obviously the audio is behaving properly so I cannot understand why the video cannot do so as well. SHS, I'm unclear as to what your message meant, but the box does not require any special action to change inputs after initial setup is done, i.e., entering "7-1" tunes a digital OTA station, entering "71" tunes a DirecTV station. Entering "7" tunes a cable station (assuming that's how you configured your system). The key element is that the set-top box outputs each of these sources on the s-video and analog audio outputs such that they can be used by PC capture cards and the like.

I guess what I'm saying is I do not understand why these restrictions are in place for a PCPVR but don't exist for standalone PVR devices.

[SHS]

jchiso if unstand what try tell us you try use S/Video output for both SAT and Cable box to the PVR S/Video?.
If had read my FAQ
Q: My PVR 250/350 come with white header (10pin OEM or 13pin Retail) what is that for? and how make use of it.
A: It a A/V header was designed to support an A/V panel for the front of a PC chassis which hauppauge plan to release later this year as an add/on device.
Being some user have MiniATX case this may not be option for you due lack of 5 1/4 bay so hauppauge sent me the info on the pin out so you may build your own custom A/V panel from gound up.
The onboard header supports audio and video inputs, which can be used as auxiliary A/V sources.
In the standard configuration, this header is a10-pin, though the connector will also support an optional 13-pinconfiguration which adds Infra-red remote control support in positions J9-11through J9-13.

Sources for a mating connector include the JST model 10NR-E series or the
JST model XHP-10.

J9 - 2.5mm locking header
J9 - 10 Audio shield
J9 - 9 Line In 2 Right
J9 - 8 Line In 2 Left
J9 - 7 Audio Shield
J9 - 6 Composite 2
J9 - 5 Composite 2 shield
J9 - 4 Chroma 2
J9 - 3 Chroma 2 shield
J9 - 2 Luma 2 shield
J9 - 1 Luma 2

SAT and Cable usely only have two RF input and one RF output Something there called like CABLE IN and ANT IN or SAT IN and ANT IN with one TV OUT and usely on the Remote there a button that say something like SAT/TV or TV/Video.

[jchiso]

Let me attempt to clear up things: I am not referring to any hardware-related concerns. My questions apply to the functionality and restrictions built into the SageTV software. Here's a brief backgrounder and problem statement for my dilemma.

During setup of the SageTV software you select a hardware device for A/V capture. The Hauppauge WinTV PVR -250 and -350 are well supported and recognized as having the following minimum characteristics: one RF input, one SVHS input and one line-level analog audio input.

During SageTV setup you are able to further define how (or if) these inputs are used. In the case of the RF input you can select whether it should tune over-the-air or cable signals. Obviously this is a mutually exclusive selection.

For the SVHS input you can specify that it be fed by an external tuner box such as a cable or satellite tuner. The caveat here is that any sources designated as being received via SVHS must be tuned by the external box. Sage makes provisions for this via IR or serial controls.

To my way of thinking the next-to-last sentence of the prior paragraph is the crux of the problems I'm having. Given that a source defined as being received via SVHS is to be tuned by an external device why does the SageTV software require unique associations for such sources in the Electronic Program Guide?

I would think that you should be able to go into the Setup Wizard and select the Hauppauge device as 'Capture', add an input and specify the input type. For example, if I say I want to add another source to my s-video options I should be able to select a signal type (say, local over-the-air) and have Sage integrate the listings into the EPG without removing any pre-existing guide data from the EPG, given that a selection of 's-video' as a source assigns tuning control to the external box.

This seems like it should be a one-time setup event in which any available EPG-listed channel is designated as either a) RF or b) SVHS -based, and where Case 'A' exists the channel is tuned by the SageTV software and in any and all Cases 'B' the channel is tuned by the external set-top box.

I recognize that you could have problems with external STBs that require a discrete input selection prior to tuning from a different source from where the box is currently tuned, but most current generation all-in-one boxes do not have this limitation. Also, there could be a software toggle to specify whether or not to send a discrete input change signal to the box.

This is probably a question for the developers, but is there something else at work here that precludes this software-level functionality?

[jchiso]

Any progress on this front in Release 2.1?

[Cayars]

Originally Posted by jchiso

...
For the SVHS input you can specify that it be fed by an external tuner box such as a cable or satellite tuner. The caveat here is that any sources designated as being received via SVHS must be tuned by the external box. Sage makes provisions for this via IR or serial controls.

To my way of thinking the next-to-last sentence of the prior paragraph is the crux of the problems I'm having. Given that a source defined as being received via SVHS is to be tuned by an external device why does the SageTV software require unique associations for such sources in the Electronic Program Guide?

So that it knows how to change the channel. There is no onboard tuner on this input so if SageTV is going to show you a lineup for multiple channels on this input it stands to reason it also needs to know how to change the channel.

I would think that you should be able to go into the Setup Wizard and select the Hauppauge device as 'Capture', add an input and specify the input type. For example, if I say I want to add another source to my s-video options I should be able to select a signal type (say, local over-the-air) and have Sage integrate the listings into the EPG without removing any pre-existing guide data from the EPG, given that a selection of 's-video' as a source assigns tuning control to the external box.

SageTV doesn't really care if the signal on this input is over the air or cable or what not. All it cares about is the method it needs to use to tune/select this channel.

This seems like it should be a one-time setup event in which any available EPG-listed channel is designated as either a) RF or b) SVHS -based, and where Case 'A' exists the channel is tuned by the SageTV software and in any and all Cases 'B' the channel is tuned by the external set-top box.

Is this not the functionality already built into SageTV? This is exactly how three of my PVRs are presently setup. I have two sources setup per card, one using RF for channels 2-99 and S-Video for channels 100 & up via Cable Box. I did this only to allow quick channel changes on the lower channels and because I was having a little trouble with the IR Blaster early on and wanted to make sure all my normal TV shows always got recorded since the built in tuner never has channel changing problems.

[Cayars]

To further up the previous message. Why don't you expain what your trying to accomplish and maybe somebody here will explain how to setup SageTV for your environment.

[stanger89]

He's got an STB with two sources, probably sat and OTA. That box is connected to the 250, via S-Video. The problem he has is that no one lineup contains both the Sat and OTA channels, so he wants to setup two different lineups (sat and OTA) for one input. The problem is you can't assign two linups to a single input in Sage.

(Did I get it right jchiso?)

I'm guessing the reason that the functionality isn't in Sage is because STBs that accept more than one source are very rare, pretty much limited to HD STBs, from which you can't record HD anyway.

Now IIRC, Jeff (Narflex) posted a way to trick Sage into using the same input for two sources. I can't find the post but IIRC the jist was that you set up the two sources on different inputs (one to the real input, one to a temporary input), then close Sage, open the properties file, and remap the the linup on the temporary input to use the real input.

FWIW though, why don't you just run the OTA directly into the tuner on the 250?

[Cayars]

Yes, this can be handled by splitting the OTA signal and running one feed into the STB and one directly into the RF port on the PVR and setting up an EPG lineup on it. The only reason I can think of why he would even need it fed directly into the STB is if he manually controls the box outside of SageTV otherwise there is no reason to even have it plugged into the STB at all.

[jchiso]

Stanger, Cayars:

Thanks for the replies. As a point of clarification the problems to which I am referring arise out of using any of the "Advanced Program Guide"-type DirecTV set-top boxes. These devices accept input from satellite, cable and over-the-air NTSC and ATSC. The boxes convert these varying inputs to 480i on SVHS.

With the advanced program guide of such units cable and ota NTSC are identified as 02 - 68 (or whatever), DirecTV as 070 - 9XX and ATSC as XX-X. So entering "7" on the unit's remote gives a cable (depending on the user's setup) or NTSC channel 7, entering "7-1" tunes an OTA ATSC channel and entering "71" tunes a DirecTV channel.

I have used the "Narflex" solution whereby you assign a phantom input as svhs Input 6, but that eliminates the card's tuner (and composite input) as a source, so it's just a tradeoff of sources and EPGs, not adding increased functionality.

[Cayars]

jchiso, Do you still MANUALLY change the STB from a remote or do/would you want to completely control everything from inside of SageTV?

I see your problem now. The best work-around I see besides what you have already done is to configure the STB as Satellite only and run it into the S-Video. Connect your cable directly into RF input and (if your card has it) connect the OTA into a VCR (with internal tuner) and then into another port on the PVR like composite. You would have to setup an IR Blaster type device for the VCR (tuner).

This really is pushing it as far as setup goes and you would probably be best off adding a second PVR so you would have Sat on one and Cable/OTA on the second PVR.

[jchiso]

Calyars:
All my control is handled by Sage. The option you recommend would be quite cumbersome, excessive and incomplete, as it neglects handling of ATSC signals.

Sage has no problem with the "many-to-one" paradigm on the audio side, so I imagine the same could be handled on the video side. Sage takes a five-pronged approach to managing and tuning content on a per-source basis; EPG, Tuning Source, Video Input, Audio Input and Channel Changing.

For instance, you can set up a configuration in which you have:
1) basic cable on the PCI card's RF input with EPG based on your local cable feed and the implicit audio, video and channel changing via the tuner
2) satellite/premium cable/ota (NTSC or ATSC) from an external set-top box with video via the PCI card's svhs input with EPG based on your satellite or cable service's feed, audio via the card's audio in and channel changing via serial control or IR blaster
3)same as (2) above, but video via composite video input

The inconsistency here is that the above configuration works natively in Sage, despite the fact that multiple sources and EPG's share a common audio input. I'm trying to achieve a similar configuration while sharing a common video input (svhs).

[Edit: typo removed]

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by jchiso

Calyars:
All my control is handled by Sage. The option you recommend would be quite cumbersome, excessive and incomplete, as it neglects handling of ATSC signals.

First I don't see how using a dedicated input for each source is cumbersome. Your point about ATSC has some merit, but since you can't actually record HD, it's somewhat moot.

Sage has no problem with the "many-to-one" paradigm on the audio side, so I imagine the same could be handled on the video side.

The only reason it works on the audio side is because the 250's hardware/drivers are designed to use the same physical audio port for various sources. AFIAK, to Sage, even though the physical port is the same, they appear as different inputs to Sage.

[jchiso]

Originally Posted by stanger89

First I don't see how using a dedicated input for each source is cumbersome. Your point about ATSC has some merit, but since you can't actually record HD, it's somewhat moot.

I did not mean using dedicated inputs was cumbersome, I was referring to the proposal of adding a VCR (or other external tuner) and an additional HD-ready satellite stb. Also the compromise of using the (lesser) composite input.

As for the ATSC content, I was not referring to recording the datastream, just the 480i output.

[stanger89]

OK, here's a couple questions for you, what sources are you actually recieving with your multi-input STB.

Without any more boxes, you can:
Receive Sat via your STB
Receive analog cable via the tuner on the 250
Recieve your local channels (same content as OTA HD) via analog cable - thus tuner on 250
Recieve Analog OTA via the tuner on a second 250 if necessary.
Although not integrated with Sage, you could record the full ATSC bitstream with an OTA HD card.

The only thing you would need another box for would be digital cable, and even then, IMO it might be preferrable, since you could feed each to a separate tuner card, and record something from each simultanously.