Newbie questions about hardware

[marcw]

I am preparing to build my own PVR already owing a Tivo. I don’t want to go the Linux route, just too complicated. I was all set to build a powerhouse box. That would be a Shuttle SB65G2, P4 2.8 512 PC2700 and 200G HD with DVD writer. The Shuttle has no onboard video so I was going to do and ATI graphics card and the PVR 250 or 350.

From reading the posts here it doesn’t seem that I need such a powerful system.

I want to use this box in my TV room as en entertainment PC. MP3’s and PVR are the two main items. I have a 65” HDTV ready TV and I will be getting digital cable (with HD tuner) to go with it.

The whole Sage concept seems interesting. One server and other clients. I am not sure that I need multiple tuners although it may be nice.

A few questions:

How will an ATI card with High res output Svideo or DVI work with the PVR cards. I read that I will need to have two separate ouputs. I want the TV to be able to display as a computer display. Can everything go through he ATI card

Thx,
Marc

[salsbst]

You don't want to use a 350 with an HDTV. Everything can and should go through the VGA card via a component adapter dongle or a transcoder.

[marcw]

Ok, so now I am a bit more confused.

As far as HDTV goes only a few stations offer it (HBO is one). Is the board you have in your configuration a replacement for the PVR350 or in addition to (does it have a hardware decoder?).

To keep things simple if I just stick with digital cable and use a 250 or 350 board and a ATI or NVidia graphics card will that do the trick for me?

For multiple tuners cards I am assuming I have to split the cable. Do the cards know their configuration, for example:

PVR card 1 takes an input from the cable box.
PVR card 2 takes an input directly from the cable (less channels)

Does each PVR card have an output to the TV (i.e. separate connection) or is it through one of the cards.

Or (I was not clear from your last post) can I send everything through the graphics card. If so how do I do this, is it extra hardware (PCI card) or an external device that will hurt the quality.

I think I am getting way ahead of myself who really only wants Tivo functionality on a PC in 3 rooms that can be networked and shared as well as access to all my MP3 files anywhere I have a media PC.

Thx,
Marc

[salsbst]

Originally posted by marcw
Ok, so now I am a bit more confused.

As far as HDTV goes only a few stations offer it (HBO is one).

Just because you may not be receiving an HD signal doesn't mean that you don't want to get the best out of your TV. If your TV can accept component inputs (and I think most HDTV's can) then you should use those to feed it, rather than S-video.

Is the board you have in your configuration a replacement for the PVR350 or in addition to (does it have a hardware decoder?).

I have two 250s in my sage server. I have no capture cards in my den's HTPC. I don't have any hardware decoders.

To keep things simple if I just stick with digital cable and use a 250 or 350 board and a ATI or NVidia graphics card will that do the trick for me?

Yes, go with at least one 250 (or the USB version or possible the new ATI E-Home Wonder) and a Radeon with the component adapter.

For multiple tuners cards I am assuming I have to split the cable. Do the cards know their configuration, for example:

PVR card 1 takes an input from the cable box.
PVR card 2 takes an input directly from the cable (less channels)

Yes, this works seemlessly and intelligently... it combines all of your channels into one guide for you to browse, etc.

Does each PVR card have an output to the TV (i.e. separate connection) or is it through one of the cards.

Or (I was not clear from your last post) can I send everything through the graphics card. If so how do I do this, is it extra hardware (PCI card) or an external device that will hurt the quality.

Everything through the graphics card for an HDTV. It would be your use of svideo rather than component that would hurt the signal -- that is why to avoid a 350, not to mention that it doesn't play well with most 250s.

[marcw]

As far as HDTV goes only a few stations offer it (HBO is one).

Just because you may not be receiving an HD signal doesn't mean that you don't want to get the best out of your TV. If your TV can accept component inputs (and I think most HDTV's can) then you should use those to feed it, rather than S-video.
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So if I want to do this then I need an interface card before the PVR250 like the one in your example or do I use an ATI. I see ATI has the adapter for output but what about HD input. Is the HD input issue just the connectors/format. I tend to record everything on low resolution on my Tivo and it looks great
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quote:

Is the board you have in your configuration a replacement for the PVR350 or in addition to (does it have a hardware decoder?).

I have two 250s in my sage server. I have no capture cards in my den's HTPC. I don't have any hardware decoders.
----------------------------------------------------
Again here, are the PVR 250¡¦s taking their input from the HD card you have in the HTPC.
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quote:

To keep things simple if I just stick with digital cable and use a 250 or 350 board and a ATI or NVidia graphics card will that do the trick for me?

Yes, go with at least one 250 (or the USB version or possible the new ATI E-Home Wonder) and a Radeon with the component adapter.
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If I understand you to get my feet wet I may want to do something like a micro PC (I may use a shuttle) a PVR 250 and an ATI card. This would assume I do not get a HD set top box from the cable company, just digital cable. I realize the Shuttle XPC gives me no expansion ability beyond the 1 AGP and 1 PCI slot. My vision is to have a nice sleek box with my TV and home theatre system that will act as my PVR and MP3 center. I should be able to use the TV as a computer screen for internet access if desired. (Party Poker on 65¡¨s). A front end program like myHTPC may be a good interface.
From a connection perspective I understand the connections to be DIGITAL CABLE BOX output ----„³ PVR250/350--„³Graphics card--„³ TV input
--------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:

For multiple tuners cards I am assuming I have to split the cable. Do the cards know their configuration, for example:

PVR card 1 takes an input from the cable box.
PVR card 2 takes an input directly from the cable (less channels)

Yes, this works seemlessly and intelligently... it combines all of your channels into one guide for you to browse, etc.
quote:

Does each PVR card have an output to the TV (i.e. separate connection) or is it through one of the cards.

Or (I was not clear from your last post) can I send everything through the graphics card. If so how do I do this, is it extra hardware (PCI card) or an external device that will hurt the quality.

Everything through the graphics card for an HDTV. It would be your use of svideo rather than component that would hurt the signal -- that is why to avoid a 350, not to mention that it doesn't play well with most 250s.
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Looking at the 250 vs 350, the 250 is only a hardware encoder, software decoder. Will playing back recorded shows eat up my processing power or will the Graphics card take card of the decoding with it¡¦s own onboard hardware. I am trying to figure out what would be the best cost graphics card to buy.

I like your idea of the server PVR server approach. I could in theory have a server out of site in a full size chassis with a small HTPC for playback and MP3¡¦s with all my other equipment. For just playback a Shuttle or equivalent would work fine.

Thx,
Marc

[salsbst]

NO! I don't know where you're getting the idea that there is an "interface" card between the video signal input and the 250s. The 250's are taking their inputs from analog cable and a digital cable box via s-video. There is no HD card!

signal -> 250 (encoded to MPEG2 here) -> hard disk -> CPU (begins to be decoded here) -> Radeon (some decoding can be done here) -> ATI Component Adapter -> component cables -> HDTV.

Yes software decoding requires some CPU but the difference between s-video (which is the best you can get out a 350) and component (which you can get out of a Radeon with the component adapter) is night and day. That is why you, as the owner of an HDTV, should not use a 350.

[salsbst]

OOh that last post was #666 for me... maybe I should replace those smileys with devils.

[stanger89]

Originally posted by marcw
As far as HDTV goes only a few stations offer it (HBO is one).

You can't record HD from cable, it's just not possible right now. But don't let that stop you getting an HD cable box, you can still watch that on your tv live, but be aware that you won't be able to watch HD and record something else from the same box.

Again here, are the PVR 250¡¦s taking their input from the HD card you have in the HTPC.

Not sure what you're getting at here.

To keep things simple if I just stick with digital cable and use a 250 or 350 board and a ATI or NVidia graphics card will that do the trick for me?

Yup, that's all you need.

If I understand you to get my feet wet I may want to do something like a micro PC (I may use a shuttle) a PVR 250 and an ATI card. This would assume I do not get a HD set top box from the cable company, just digital cable. I realize the Shuttle XPC gives me no expansion ability beyond the 1 AGP and 1 PCI slot. My vision is to have a nice sleek box with my TV and home theatre system that will act as my PVR and MP3 center. I should be able to use the TV as a computer screen for internet access if desired. (Party Poker on 65¡¨s). A front end program like myHTPC may be a good interface.

I would avoid a micro PC for the reasons you listed. I'd look at something like the Antec Overture or Ahanix D.Vine cases for your purpose. I've got a D.Vine 4 that almost perfectly matches my other components.

From a connection perspective I understand the connections to be DIGITAL CABLE BOX output ----„³ PVR250/350--„³Graphics card--„³ TV input

Correct

--------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:

For multiple tuners cards I am assuming I have to split the cable. Do the cards know their configuration, for example:

PVR card 1 takes an input from the cable box.
PVR card 2 takes an input directly from the cable (less channels)

Correct again

Yes, this works seemlessly and intelligently... it combines all of your channels into one guide for you to browse, etc.
quote:

Does each PVR card have an output to the TV (i.e. separate connection) or is it through one of the cards.

Or (I was not clear from your last post) can I send everything through the graphics card. If so how do I do this, is it extra hardware (PCI card) or an external device that will hurt the quality.

Everything will go out the video card.

--------------------------------------------------
Looking at the 250 vs 350, the 250 is only a hardware encoder, software decoder. Will playing back recorded shows eat up my processing power or will the Graphics card take card of the decoding with it¡¦s own onboard hardware. I am trying to figure out what would be the best cost graphics card to buy.

Yes it will require some power but it's really nothing for modern hardware, and yes the video card can help, I see about 20% CPU usage on my 2.4GHz P4.

I like your idea of the server PVR server approach. I could in theory have a server out of site in a full size chassis with a small HTPC for playback and MP3¡¦s with all my other equipment. For just playback a Shuttle or equivalent would work fine.

Thx,
Marc

I wouldn't go for a client server setup right away, just set up a nice SageTV box to start with, keep things simple.

From what you describe you will want 2 250s and a nice video card. I'd say get a GeforceFX 5700 if you have DVI, VGA, or RGBHV inputs on your TV or a Radeon 9600 Pro if you only have YPbPr inputs.

What model TV do you have?

[marcw]

I have to check the exact model # for sure when I get home but I believe it is the Pioneer SD-643HD5 64 HD-TV Projection TV.

Inputs/Outputs:

3 Progressive Scan Inputs-Sub 15 Inputs, 2 Component Inputs
2 S- Video Inputs, (1 front)
Antenna x 2
3 Composite Inputs, (1 front)
1 AV Monitor Output
Pioneer "SR" System control out

[stanger89]

With a 15pin D-Sub almost any video card should do, in that case I'd go for a Geforce FX 5700.

What you might want to do is try a card you already have, 640x480 should work out of the box.