comcast encrypts everything

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by freewheeling

I don't really understand why our computers can't decrypt the digital signal for these encrypted channels. I mean, it's a computer. Isn't that what it does?

Cable companies will not license the techology to decrypt cable easily. They have very, very stringent requirements before they will give you the keys to allow you to decrypt cable.

There are options, but they are currently only the ATI OCUR. Ceton, Hauppauge and SiliconDust are supposed to be releasing devices as well but they seem to keep being delayed.

Further, part of the licensing for decrypting cable is that robust copy protection is provided/ensured after decryption. This means you need a PC app with strong DRM, which right now is only Windows 7 Media Center.

[limiter]

Comcast recently started encrypting all the local network HD channels except ABC. The SD channels are all available in the clear. I was told the only possibility of getting the HD channels back unencrypted is if the TV operators stop sending a SD feed to Comcast, but maybe they would just down-convert and send it as SD.

Despite encrypting the locals Comcast is still letting me see my other neighbor's PPV movies live. If they FF their movie it FF on my TV. Hilarious and sad all at the same time. Either they must assume not many people try to scan for clear QAM, or they just don't care about privacy.

[drewg]

Originally Posted by limiter

Despite encrypting the locals Comcast is still letting me see my other neighbor's PPV movies live. If they FF their movie it FF on my TV. Hilarious and sad all at the same time. Either they must assume not many people try to scan for clear QAM, or they just don't care about privacy.

When I first got a QAM tuner back in 2004, TWC in Raleigh NC had the same policy of not encrypting on-demand ppv. They also had some internal server monitoring channel which was a grainy b&w security feed of one of their machine rooms. And they didn't encrypt DiscoveryHD or TNT-HD. One day, all that went away, and now we only get the locals and about 10 shopping channels in the clear..

Drew

[freewheeling]

Originally Posted by stanger89

Cable companies will not license the techology to decrypt cable easily. They have very, very stringent requirements before they will give you the keys to allow you to decrypt cable.

Thanks. I was wondering about that. I guess encryption is way ahead of decryption. I should have known that.

[mrrrl]

I, like most of you that use Comcast as your signal provider have come to a fork in the road. I have been using SageTV for a little over five years. It been good for the most part. But now that at least in my area, Salt Lake City, Utah, starting in August Comcast will be encrypting most channels. I have three analog PVR-150 cards and four HDHomeRun boxes. Two of my PVR-150 are connected to STB boxes. The STB setup is not the best as I have to use the USB-UIRT and it only works so-so, plus it’s SD. The HDHomeRun’s are great and there HD. I also now have one HD200 and three HD100’s and one MVP. So as you can see I have been a fan of SageTV for awhile and have some money invested in this technology.
But it seems to be coming to an end next month. I have been trying to think of a way to keep my SageTV system going but am not having any luck. Sure I can just use the STB’s but its SD and the USB-UIRT are not that reliable. I don’t want to lose HD recording
It appears that cable cards are not an option unless I move over to Microsoft 7 Media Center, but its lack of good extenders is a concern. Go back to Tivo, but the only problem with this option is I can’t have it play on the five TV’s in the house, I have not seen any Tivo media extenders.
Anyone have any good solutions? Anyone live in the SLC area that is also in the same predicament that I am in? Am I missing something? I am sure I am not the only in this spot.

Thanks

* merged *

[Fuzzy]

a couple HD-PVR's plus the 2 HD STB's from the cable co would certainly be cheaper than a Tivo, especially considering the costs involved in the TiVo subscription, so I don't see how Tivo's an option. They'd also be about the same price as a cablecard tuner, so that also, not an option. I suggest you just get a couple HD-PVR's, set them up with some HD STB's from the cable co, and continue being happy with your HD extenders and all 5 tv's in the house sharing a good PVR system. Not much of a fork in the road, more like a bump (cost of the HD-PVR's), and a look down some scary dark alleys on either side. no need to go down those alleys...

[darcilicious]

Have to agree with Fuzzy. In my market, FiOS was never in the clear (except local HDs and SDs) so went straight away with one HD-PVR and one Hava Wireless HD and two HD STBs from Verizon.

[mrrrl]

Sorry, I don't see how a couple HD-PVR's are going to help, I don't need any more recording devices. I need a way to decrypt the comcast signals. I need to see if Comcast has any newer STB that can be controlled by USB.

[appelm]

Hd-pvr records component. No decryption necessary.

[darcilicious]

Originally Posted by mrrrl

Sorry, I don't see how a couple HD-PVR's are going to help, I don't need any more recording devices. I need a way to decrypt the comcast signals. I need to see if Comcast has any newer STB that can be controlled by USB.

and from earlier

Sure I can just use the STB’s but its SD and the USB-UIRT are not that reliable. I don’t want to lose HD recording

Get HD set-top boxes. Get HD-PVR boxes. Connect HD-PVR to STB via component; connect HD-PVR to SageTV computer via USB.

STBs decrypt all encrypted channels, SD and HD; HD-PVR records all channels via the STBs.

[Taddeusz]

I think what he is trying to say is that he would prefer to have the original signal rather than going through a process that by it's nature introduces a loss in quality.

[freewheeling]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

I think what he is trying to say is that he would prefer to have the original signal rather than going through a process that by it's nature introduces a loss in quality.

The HD-PVR has component in, and component out. It would be nice if it had HDMI. Maybe that'll be their next product. I don't see any significant degradation in quality between running the signal through the HD-PVR and to the TV versus directly from the STB to the TV. As for the USB-UIRT changing the channels it seems pretty reliable as long as the box is well located. It's clunky, though, compared to using the STB remote directly. I understand some STBs have a firewire connection that you can use to change channels, etc.. Firewire, not USB. The USB connector on the STB is only there for maintenance.

The HD-PVR also has an IR-Blaster, but it didn't work nearly as well as the USB-UIRT.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by freewheeling

The HD-PVR has component in, and component out. It would be nice if it had HDMI. Maybe that'll be their next product. I don't see any significant degradation in quality between running the signal through the HD-PVR and to the TV versus directly from the STB to the TV. As for the USB-UIRT changing the channels it seems pretty reliable as long as the box is well located. It's clunky, though, compared to using the STB remote directly. I understand some STBs have a firewire connection that you can use to change channels, etc.. Firewire, not USB. The USB connector on the STB is only there for maintenance.

The HD-PVR also has an IR-Blaster, but it didn't work nearly as well as the USB-UIRT.

Even running through HDMI would be less than perfect. The original lossily compressed stream, usually MPEG2 is still being decompressed to be sent over HDMI and recompressed into another lossy format. Sure, if you keep the bitrate high enough you'll mitigate some of the affects of this process but there will still be some loss of quality. It is quite preferable to keep the original digital stream intact rather than sending it through a further lossy process as in the HDPVR or through a product that uses HDMI.

Really, the whole thing is just as absurd as having to burn all your WMA music to CD and then turn around and recompress it into MP3 or AAC. No matter how high of bitrate you recompress with the result is never any better than your original source and most likely worse due to the doubling of lossy compression.

The HDPVR actually makes this process worse by forcing the video through a digital to analog and then analog to digital conversion. I personally use an HDPVR. While the result is acceptable I would really prefer the ability to record the original source rather than mangle it through the HDPVR.

[Fuzzy]

R-5000

[Taddeusz]

At least for me it's not really an option. I'm on Cox Cable here in OKC and they have pretty much everything except most of the locals flagged. From what I understand about R5000 I would get no more than I would get over the FireWire ports already on my STB. Dish is not really an option as the package we'd need would cost more than what we're currently paying for just the cable tv service. So my only real options are an HDPVR or Media Center and CableCard.

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by freewheeling

The HD-PVR has component in, and component out. It would be nice if it had HDMI. Maybe that'll be their next product.

Why would HDMI be better? And further, even if it were theoretically better, it would be all but useless due to HDCP. HDCP is designed ground up to be unrecordable.

I don't see any significant degradation in quality between running the signal through the HD-PVR and to the TV versus directly from the STB to the TV.

Me either, I can't see any difference (but size) between an HD PVR recording and an R5000 one (raw bitstream from Dish).

As for the USB-UIRT changing the channels it seems pretty reliable as long as the box is well located. It's clunky, though, compared to using the STB remote directly.

What do you mean, Sage to me works just like using an STB.

Originally Posted by Fuzzy

R-5000

You're rather lucky if you can find/get/get-provisioned a box that it works with on a Cable system.

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

At least for me it's not really an option. I'm on Cox Cable here in OKC and they have pretty much everything except most of the locals flagged. From what I understand about R5000 I would get no more than I would get over the FireWire ports already on my STB.

No, the R5000 gives you anything you subscribe to. It pulls the bitstream from right after the decrypter. There are no copy protection issues with it, it's oblivious to them.

But like I said, getting it working on cable is a trick.

[freewheeling]

Never heard of the R5000. Looks automagic. I really can't tell the difference between what the HDPVR captures and what goes directly to my TV via HDMI from the cable box. Well, maybe a little but not really noticeable. In fact, I usually can't tell the difference between 480i and 1080p. I guess my lack of visual acuity is how God compensates for the fact that I have perfect pitch, and can't stand to listen to anything that's even infinitesimally off key.

[Fuzzy]

The R5000 really is great, but it really doesn't make sense now with the HD-PVR's available. It came out before the HD-PVR, so for a while, it was the only way to go. (also, the only reason I specifically used dish network). It's expensive, and was buggy for quite some time (later software version have steadied that out quite a bit). But it DOES give you great quality, with VERY small file sizes. (Dish network runs most channels at about 5Mbps H.264). To maintain the same quality without introducing artifacts, the HD-PVR would have to run FAR higher (10+Mbps). The only reason I brought it up, is it DOES do everything Tadd was asking for (record the direct digital compressed stream from the broadcaster).