Getting Started Advice Needed

[profit]

I need some advice for my project. My goal is to have a home media server for photos, videos, music, and also PVR functionality.

I currently have two TV's but will be moving to four TV's in a new house. I have TW Cable digital service (not HD) with Showtime and pay $7 month for the box plus $8 month for DVR service. The cable company is telling me I need to rent a HD box to get all of the content (on demand / pay per view) and that a cable card would give me limited HD.

First question - what is the best way to get two to four TV's setup to be able to watch live or recorded content? My initial thought was to setup a home server with Raid 1 on XP or Vista with Sage software. I'm unsure of the tuner cards I would need to get HD. Any recommendations here? At a minimum I'd like to be able to watch 2 shows and record 2 simultaneously if possible.

Would I simply be able to get a SageTV HD Theater box per TV for TV 2, 3, and 4? I don't see how I can escape at least one HD set top box from Time Warner to get HD.

My other thought was to get a readynas.com device for the media storage. Could the theater box access the content directly from the readynas?

Finally the big decision is XP or Vista?

Any and all advice is welcome.

[Mitch G]

To record content that you get through your cable box(es), you will need the HD-PVR to capture those programs. To record OTA or clear QAM over cable HD programming you can use an HD Homerun. To record standard definition programming over cable, there are all sorts of tuner card options.

To deliver the recorded content, photos, videos, etc. to your TVs you can have one TV connected to your media server and the rest connected to HD200s, but I would suggest just putting the server in a closet somewhere and use HD200s for all of your TVs. It will save you tons of grief trying to get your video driver working nicely with your TV.

As far as XP or Vista is concerned, last year when I built my box, it was strongly suggested to go with XP. I did and it's been solid. But, Vista may have matured by now. Personally, though if I still had to make the choice, I would just go with tried and true XP.

Hope this helps,


Mitch

[profit]

Thanks! i think I am still missing a piece of the puzzle:

For the HD-PVR are you suggesting this device:
http://www.hauppauge.com/site/products/data_hdpvr.html

From the FAQ: HD PVR captures video streams in a compressed H.264 format. --> It looks like Sage will support this format so am I correct in assuming I could view the recorded content through sage? Also what would the HD-PVR plug into on the PC? Your suggestion of using HD200's for all of the TV's is a good one. So in this scenario would I have a closet with the following:

PC - what cards are in this or do you have any recommendations?
HD PVR connected to Cable box 1 HD
HD Home run connected to Cable box 2 HD

Then at each TV just a HD200 connected back to network switch?

I think the disconnect for me is how many cable boxes do I need and the location. Is it correct to assume that with the HD PVR and the HD Home run I could record up to 3 shows at once or record 2 and watch one live or recorded. The recordings would be 1 HD recording from HD PVR and the HD Home run would handle OTA or QAM channels in high def as available but everything else would be at a lower format.

Sorry if I am talking in circles...

[Mitch G]

I understand your confusion - I was there about a year ago.
And, you are a tiny bit confused still.
So, I'm going to try to confuse you more ....

Let's talk about a basic cable scenario first. You don't have any cable boxes in this picture. You basically connect a coax cable from the cable provider to a standard definition tuner card in your PC. I currently use ATI cards, but have also used Hauppage. Pretty much any tuner card with on-board encoding hardware is what you want. But, leave that discussion for a later time.

Then, like you said, you would have an HD200 at each TV that connects to your network on one side and to your TV/hometheater system on the other side.
Personally, I would suggest deploying a gigabit wired network if possible. But, again that's a different discussion/debate.

At this point you sit in your living room and use the HD200's interface to record and watch live or recorded standard def Cable.

NOW, most (if not all) cable operators make the local HD channels available in what is known as "Clear QAM." This means that you don't need any special hardware other than a QAM tuner to watch it. No cable boxes or cable cards are needed for this service and it's generally (supposed to be?) provided as part of basic cable service. In fact, if you have a TV with a QAM tuner, you might want to try plugging the cable directly to the TV without a cable box and scan for digital channels and see what you get. That said, I had to add some in-line amps to my system to get solid clear QAM signal and I've worked with friends and family who also had signal level problems with the clear QAM signal. So, if you try this experiment with one of your TVs, and you don't get any HD channels, it doesn't mean the cable operator doesn't provide them in the clear.

Assuming, you do have clear QAM channels, you can then use an HD Homerun (AKA HDHR) to tune and record those clear QAM channels. The HDHR sits on the network and your PC communicates with it over the network. So, the HDHR connects to the coax cable on one side and the ethernet network on the other. The PC talks to the HDHR to tell it to tune applicable channels and the PC receives the video stream from the HDHR to store it and deliver it to your HD200s as requested.
The HDHR CANNOT tune encrypted channels.

Encrypted channels are any that require a cable box to tune - SD or HD. So, channels like HBO, Showtime, or ESPN-HD or DiscoveryHD or even some fancier SD channels in my market that are not provided as part of basic, analog cable service, need a cable box (or cable card) to watch them on your TV. Sage can't record these channels directly since it doesn't have the cable box decryption stuff or cablecard support for that matter. Therefore, one can use the HD-PVR. The HD-PVR has component cables connected to your cable box on one side and USB on the other connected to your PC. This plus some IR repeater stuff lets you tell your cable box to tune a channel so that the HD-PVR can grab the video and Sage can record it. I don't use an HD-PVR, so that's where my knowledge ends.

So, in your picture above, if you have two cable boxes you want to record from, then you need two HD-PVRs. The HDHR is not required if you are not going to try to record clear QAM (or over the air HD).


Mitch

[profit]

With an HD PVR why would I need SAGE or the Sage HD Theater?

I have clear QAM however I was going to get an HD cable box to hook up to each TV. The HD PVR uses USB which I believe has a 17.5' limitation. Does anyone use USB signal extenders to allow for the PC to be in a different area of the house away from the HD PVR?

Thanks for all your help so far Mitch. This stuff is somewhat confusing.

[vexhold]

Here, maybe this diagram will help you understand. (sorry its not the best quality as I dont have Visio here at the moment)




This example is if you had 4 rooms that will be possibly watched (at the same time)

You could get by with less if less will be watched at the same time.

The HD cable boxes will all be located at the server.

The signal from the STB's will be captured by the HD-PVR then sent to the Server via USB.

Sage will then use this capture as one of its sources.

The HD Theater at each TV will be connected via ethernet on your home network.

These boxes will tell the server "Hey! I want to watch CSI on channel 4"

The server will then choose one of the Sources depending on who is using it and which is available.

You can also press pause on one TV, go to another and continue watching from there.

Hope this clears up the confusion even a tad.

[Mitch G]

vexhold's picture is very good.
The only notation I would add is that the "computer" is in the basement in a corner or a closet somewhere and that the "router" can actually just be (should be perhaps?) a gig-e switch.

And, unless you want to watch HD programs on channels OTHER than the one clear QAM channels, you don't need HD cable boxes. So, you can replace vexhold's "cable-stb + hd-pvr" boxes with HDHR boxes. And I would assert you may only need 1 or 2 HDHRs since each one has 2 tuners.

Mitch

[profit]

Vexhold and Mitch thanks so much for answering all of my questions. The graphic is great and clarifies my potential setup.

Vexhold / Mitch with your proposed setup I don't believe I even need cable cards or tuners in the PC. I can simply hook up the hd-pvr via USB to the Media Server. I guess I wouldn't need any tuner cards in PC even with the the HD Homerun that works via ethernet.

If my PC has a DVD drive can I just load the rented DVD into the media server and then view that dvd on a designated screen of my choosing? So I wouldn't need to have a DVD player per room.

So how is audio handled? Do I need a receiver per room or can I add something like a http://www.us.onkyo.com/model.cfm?m=...s=Receiver&p=i to handle multiple rooms. My guess is that the receiver is used to extend one sound source to specific speakers or zones and that if I have multiple sound sources then I need a receiver and speakers for that zone.

TIA,

Aaron

[vexhold]

You are correct.

The HD-PVR and the HDHR are both external Tuners so there is no need for an internal tuner on the PC.

As far as the DVD playback. The answer is yes (BUT) the HD Theater can't handle encrypted disks. You would need to use something like AnyDVD to take the encryption off first. Or (if its a disk you own) just save it to the hard drive and view it any time from Sage.

AnyDVD is a one time purchase and is around 60-80 bucks i think. You install it once and upgrade it occasionally as new encryptions come out. Once installed, you do nothing else. It runs in the background and when you put a disk in it automatically decrypts it and is ready for use.

Audio- Each HD Theater has its own audio out. Just like a seperate componate at each TV. So, you would have to use either the TV itself for audio, or have a receiver at that location for more grander audio.

[Mitch G]

If you are going to get all your programming via clear QAM and cable box, then you are correct. If your goal was to get standard def analog cable (i.e. without using a cable box), then you'll need some standard def tuners in your PC. (I just want to make sure you understand that the HDHR only does clear QAM or OTA high def and can't tune standard def channels.)

As far as audio is concerned, since you are currently focused on the video stuff, I would suggest not worrying about audio right now. Get your sage working - just run video and audio directly to the TV for now. Once you got that all figured out, then you can start up a whole 'nother research project regarding your audio. The HD200s you invest in now will integrate fine with any audio system you end up deploying. So, no worries there. Besides it'll give you more time to save up for a solid home theater system (or systems).

Mitch

[profit]

Got it -

-hdhr requires internal cable card on server
-HD PVR does not and use in conjunction with cable box
-Worry about audio later

Thanks so much. Now to spend some money

[MattHelm]

Originally Posted by profit

-hdhr requires internal cable card on server

Nope, HDHR can only receive "Clear QAM" (digital TV on cable) or ATSC (digital TV from antenna). Most cable companies have 6 to 9 "network" HD channels in "Clear QAM". No cable card needed or usable.

My dad gets 6 where he is: ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, CW and PBS.
I get 9 here: ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, CW and PBS and 3 more local only channels.
(Check your locals here: http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/channels )

What he should have said, was the HDHR can't record ANALOG TV. It can record SD TV just fine, but it has to transmitted digital. (I have about 10 of these, but I've never set them up, or record them)

It's just that 2 HDHR's (4 receivers) are as cheap as 1 HD-PVR, and if you watch much network TV, that will cover a lot of your shows, then you might get by with only 2 cable boxes/HD-PVR's and be able to record what you need to.

So, if you watch some analog cable shows, some HD network shows and some HD pay channels, you might be better off getting a dual analog receiver, a HDHR (dual digital receiver) and 2 or ?? HD cable box/HD-PVR's. You wouldn't all be able to watch 4 different pay channels at the same time, but I've had HBO before, and they run the same shows over and over, and SageTV is great at handling conflicts!!!

Now if all you want is the pay channels, you should only get cable box/HD-PVR's.

(BTW, for the dual analog tuner, I'd suggest the Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250, which can do both analog and digital tuning.)

Yes, all this is confusing, but you can make a super system very easy with SageTV. Hope you enjoy it as much as I have.

[Polypro]

Also, depending on what your after and your picky'ness for quality...capturing your cable box signals via S-Video can look pretty good. It won't be HD but it also doesn't come with the teething pains the HD-PVR seems to have. Just an FYI.

P

[shadeblue.com]

Originally Posted by vexhold

Here, maybe this diagram will help you understand.

Hi vexhold,

Your diagram inspired me to create what I hope is a useful tool to help describe whole-home distributed SageTV systems for newcomers. Here is my attempt at a deployment and equipment diagram.

Posted in the forums download section:
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/down...do=file&id=278

Thanks,
shadeBlue

[Mitch G]

Originally Posted by shadeblue.com

Hi vexhold,

You diagram inspired me to create what I hope is a useful tool to help describe whole-home distributed SageTV systems for newcomers. Here is my attempt at a deployment and equipment diagram.

Posted in the forums download section:
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/down...do=file&id=278

Thanks,
shadeBlue

Great diagram! That should be stickified somewhere.

[Polypro]

The talent on this board continues to amaze me, nice job.

P

[shadeblue.com]

Originally Posted by profit

Finally the big decision is XP or Vista?

I think that you will find that most people (who are running SageTV under a Window-base OS) are running it under XP.

I think SageTV itself works fine under Vista, but the headache comes with all the driver compatibility issues.

I first installed on Vista about 6 months ago and quickly ran into driver issues with my Hauppauge cards. I abandoned Vista and went XP. So with all the latest driver releases it may work fine on Vista now, but if you want the road most followed and the least potential headaches, go XP.

If you are just setting up a system to give SageTV a trial run, then definitely go XP. I would not want your experience to be tainted with OS and driver compatibility problems.

Thanks,
SB

[vexhold]

Fabulous Diagram Blue.

Puts mine to shame, but then again I was at work and only had mspaint to work with lol.

Sticky that thing.

[Underdog]

Sorry, about crashing the thread, but this is along the lines of what I am currently attempting...!

Can the HD Homerun provide OTA Digital Signals to the Sage Media Server then to the Sage HD Theater and finally to an HD Ready television. I have an older Sony XBR 36" Tube that does a great job just need to get OTA Digtal signals to it.

After reading the thread, it seems you can solve the problem with the HD Homerun and adding it to the network for the Sage Media Server or by adding a tuner card to the Sage Media Server itself..? Is this correct...?

We have been using Sage TV for about a year with the HD100 Sage Theater - works great....

Thanks,

Underdog

[vexhold]

Yeah, that would basically meet your needs.

HDHR feeds server ---> Server feeds HD Theater ---> HD Theater outputs to Old TV via the best quality input the TV has.