Why does the HD-PVR use H.264 rather than MPEG-2

[dvd_maniac]

So DVRMSToolbox can transcode the HD-PVR recorded video to Mpeg-2 as it is recording?

I'd keep your analog tuners (or switch to hybrids like the 2250). Let them do the mpeg encoding so you don't need CPU cycles for that.

I have 3 USB2's and a dual tuner PVR-500 for analog tuners. How can I use these to encode the HD-PVR files to Mpeg-2?

If I can record SD video using the HD-PVR's Component input using the highest bitrate setting and then transcode that to Mpeg-2 will I get a better quality than using my current analog tuners w/ s-vid?
If so, then I would at least want to replace the 3 USB2's that I have hooked up to my 3 STBs. I'll keep the PVR-500 analog just in case I run into conflicts.

I don't convert back to x264. Disk is too cheap.

I have over 1700 movies and over 8000 episodes on my server, Disk space is not THAT cheap...

[Sam]

Originally Posted by dvd_maniac

So DVRMSToolbox can transcode the HD-PVR recorded video to Mpeg-2 as it is recording?

I thought so, because I thought some people were using this in real time for its profile which converts to 320x240 mpg to front end commercial detection.

Playing with it since my last post, I can't get it to do that. I'm not sure yet if that is just a configuration thing. But it can easily do all sorts of post processing on the files, including pretty efficient transcode to mpeg2.

I have 3 USB2's and a dual tuner PVR-500 for analog tuners. How can I use these to encode the HD-PVR files to Mpeg-2?

You can't.

If I can record SD video using the HD-PVR's Component input using the highest bitrate setting and then transcode that to Mpeg-2 will I get a better quality than using my current analog tuners w/ s-vid?

For analog channels, I've always thought the most important factor was the quality of the tuner. But you're using the same tuner (in the STB) either way here since you feed s-vid to the analog tuners.

I haven't bothered to try this myself with the analog channels because others here on the forum have mentioned they don't think it is worth it for SD material.

If so, then I would at least want to replace the 3 USB2's that I have hooked up to my 3 STBs. I'll keep the PVR-500 analog just in case I run into conflicts.

If you had 3 HD-PVRs just for analog stuff plus at least another 1 or more for HD material, then you'll probably need to limit how many conversions you have going on at once. As long as you aren't recording 24/7, you should still be able to have the conversions queue up and get done.

It just won't be as real-time as my previous post suggested. I'm hoping I just have a configuration wrong, and the conversions don't have to wait until the recording is over.

I have over 1700 movies and over 8000 episodes on my server, Disk space is not THAT cheap...

So how much disk space to you have?

[wayner]

Originally Posted by dvd_maniac

I have over 1700 movies and over 8000 episodes on my server, Disk space is not THAT cheap...

By my calculation that is over 220 days of content. Never mind the cost, how do you have the time to watch all of that stuff?

[hemicuda]

at an mpeg2 average that's pushing 10TB. I have about 24 days worth of video media sitting on just over 1TB.

[Clift]

Playing with it since my last post, I can't get it to do that. I'm not sure yet if that is just a configuration thing. But it can easily do all sorts of post processing on the files, including pretty efficient transcode to mpeg2.

Sam,

Couldn't you use sgraphrecorder to do that? It would require a fast CPU to do it in real time, I imagine. What you could do is use the sgraphrecorder application as the "tuner" in Sage and build a graph to use the HD-PVR as the source.

I would be interested to know how that goes and how much cpu % it uses.

[dvd_maniac]

So how much disk space to you have?

I have 1x750 for my movies(All encoded into X264) Most of them are ok quality dvd rips encoded to X264/AAC mp4.
The average filesize for each movie is about 350MB. Most High Action, Sci-Fi or my family's personal favorites are bigger (around 800MB-1GB each).
1x1TB for my TV archive. 1hr shows cut down to about 41min are around 90MB and 1/2hr about 45MB.
Recording drive is 1TB drive and OS is 3x320GB raid-0

By my calculation that is over 220 days of content. Never mind the cost, how do you have the time to watch all of that stuff?

I started with Sage back in Jan 2004 because my wife used to buy almost every DVD right when it came out. Our living room looked like Best Buy's DVD section and it was very hard to find a movie when we wanted to watch it. Plus the kids would destroy or lose them. So I started encoding them and putting the originals away. As for the large TV selection? We like to watch seasons and usually wait until we are sure that it won't get cancelled.

ut you're using the same tuner (in the STB) either way here since you feed s-vid to the analog tuners.

Are you saying that the HD-PVR records the analog stations from the STB using s-vid and not Component output?

[paulbeers]

Originally Posted by dvd_maniac

Are you saying that the HD-PVR records the analog stations from the STB using s-vid and not Component output?

No you can record SD via component. Some say it does a better job than any of the MPEG2 encoder cards out there. I personally only use mine for recording HD and my PVR500 for SD as I don't want to tie up my (only) HDPVR on SD content.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by dvd_maniac

Are you saying that the HD-PVR records the analog stations from the STB using s-vid and not Component output?

No, I'm simply saying the analog signal is being tuned by the STB whether you use the HD-PVR or your USB2 with s-vid feed. Therefore you are not using an analog tuner on a card/stick, which may (or may not) be inferior to the analog tuner in the STB.

For example, I have a PVR-500 where the signal tuned by the card is nowhere close to the recording I get using the STB s-vid output feeding the s-vid input on the PVR-500. My 500 does a fine job encoding; it just didn't do as well tuning.

But I recently got my hands on a PVR-2250, and its analog tuners seem every bit as good as using the STB s-vid output feeding my PVR-500. So for $150 for the 2250, I can handle two analog sources with STB rental fees. Plus for those channels available in clear QAM, it can just capture those streams directly. Although I also have a HDHR for that too.

I prefer to minimize the number of STBs rented and HD-PVRs required.

1hr shows cut down to about 41min are around 90MB and 1/2hr about 45MB.

Which method are you using to convert to X264, and what is your typical time to transcode a 41 minute episode?

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Sam

No, I'm simply saying the analog signal is being tuned by the STB whether you use the HD-PVR or your USB2 with s-vid feed. Therefore you are not using an analog tuner on a card/stick, which may (or may not) be inferior to the analog tuner in the STB.

For example, I have a PVR-500 where the signal tuned by the card is nowhere close to the recording I get using the STB s-vid output feeding the s-vid input on the PVR-500. My 500 does a fine job encoding; it just didn't do as well tuning.

I don't know that the quality of the tuner would be at fault here as there would be a number of factors, not the least of which is the noise that there would be over analog cable that would not be present on a digital signal coming from your STB via s-vid. There are a lot more places where noise could be introduced in the signal when it is coming in analog form from the cable co all the way to your PVR-500 as opposed to digital (and noise free) from the cable co to your STB. The only place that noise could be introduced would be from the D/A converter and then your short s-video cable run. Some times you can even induce noise in the signal by running appliances like microwaves, hair dryers, etc.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by wayner

There are a lot more places where noise could be introduced in the signal when it is coming in analog form from the cable co all the way to your PVR-500 as opposed to digital (and noise free) from the cable co to your STB.

This is with low numbered analog channels, which as far as I can tell, even the STB tunes via analog not digital. They sure don't show up as clear QAM by my HDHR anyway.

Switching the exact same cable lead from my PVR-500 to my STB then s-vid to the 500, the signal is much worse on my 500's tuner. Moving that same cable to my 2250 configured to use the analog tuner, and the signal is good again. I mention using the same cable lead to eliminate differences from poor connectors, splitter outputs, etc.

I don't think the STB is getting those low number channels digitally in my market. Is there a way the Moto 6200 can tell me for sure?

[wayner]

Sorry I have SA boxes, not Moto and Rogers cable transmits all channels digitally - the low ones (<75 or so) are also available analog of course.

[dvd_maniac]

But I recently got my hands on a PVR-2250, and its analog tuners seem every bit as good as using the STB s-vid output feeding my PVR-500. So for $150 for the 2250, I can handle two analog sources with STB rental fees. Plus for those channels available in clear QAM, it can just capture those streams directly. Although I also have a HDHR for that too.

Is this card capable of actually recording 4 programs?
The website says Dual analog 'AND' Dual QAM...

Which method are you using to convert to X264, and what is your typical time to transcode a 41 minute episode?

I use Staxrip, which can be found at www.doom9.org.
I use 512x384, constant quality at 27, b-frames at 16 and ref frames of 8. AAC LC audio at 40Kbps in the *.mp4 container. A 41 minute video typically takes about 14-18 minutes.

The quality is really good on my 36" SDTV but has some artifacts on any of my HDTVs. But I started this when HHD's were not so cheap. My newer, favorite shows are almost twice as big and take about 22 minutes to encode. Still rather quick.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by dvd_maniac

Is this card capable of actually recording 4 programs? The website says Dual analog 'AND' Dual QAM...

No; up to two at once. It has two hybrid tuners. Either can run analog or digital independent of the other, but each tuner can only tune one thing at a time.

Note also that there is a single coax input with an internal splitter. So you can't for example to both OTA on one tuner and analog cable on the other. However, for cable users, it appears to be a really slick card.

Since I also have a HDHR, I have not yet configured the 2250's digital tuners in Sage. But then it isn't officially supported yet either (the 2200 is).

My newer, favorite shows are almost twice as big and take about 22 minutes to encode. Still rather quick.

That is the same ballpark as my *.ts to *.mpg encodes. What settings do you use in Staxrip for your favorites? And for action movies/sports?

[dvd_maniac]

So how does Sage use the 4 tuners. How would Sage know which tuner is being used so it doesn't try to use Tuner and QAM on same tuner?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by dvd_maniac

So how does Sage use the 4 tuners. How would Sage know which tuner is being used so it doesn't try to use Tuner and QAM on same tuner?

I haven't setup the digital tuner yet, so can only go off what I read in other forum threads about the 2250. Evidently Sage has the intelligence for this (the program never ceases to amaze me). You actually add the tuner 4 times, twice as an analog, and twice as a digital tuner. But it knows the analog and digital are paired and that it can only use one of them at a time. In the parallel recording schedule view, I guess it combines the associated analog and digital tuners.

So with a single cable connection to the 2250, it can record any combination of two channels, and dynamically switch them between analog and digital. Pretty slick.

Since I also have a HDHR, I am waiting for official 2250 support before bothering with the digital tuners though. Even as just a dual analog tuner, it blows the quality of my PVR-500 away.

[dvd_maniac]

@Sam
I downloaded some test clips from the HD-PVR and also installed DVRMSToolbox. Could you give me some instructions on how to use it to convert from .ts to .mpg?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by dvd_maniac

I downloaded some test clips from the HD-PVR and also installed DVRMSToolbox. Could you give me some instructions on how to use it to convert from .ts to .mpg?

What I did is use the "Convert a file for commercial scanning" as a template, but change the output from 320x240 at 500KB to 720x480 at 6300KB.

Do to that, follow these steps:

• Start DVRMSToolboxSettings
• Highlight "convert a file for commercial scanning"
• Click "New Profile From"
• Give it a name and description like "Convert ts to mpeg"
• Highlight "Convert DVR-MS with an explicit graph"
• Click Configure
• On next dialog box, click "Configure Filters"

This will start bringing up a series of dialogs with various settings. The ones I changed were:

Video Encoder:

• Set standard combo boxto MPEG-2 DVD
• Set average bit rate slider to 6350 mbps
• Set VBR peak bitrate, or disable VBR

Video Scaling: Set output size to 720x480

After all the dialogs have been presented, you will be back at the main Configure window for the profile. Click OK to return to the profile, then Save to close the profile window.

You can now manually test the conversion against a HD-PVR file using DVRMSToolboxGUI. Simply launch that from the Start menu, double click the Input File and Output File text boxes to select the files, set the process priority and select your new profile name from the list then click Run.

If you want to auto convert recordings, there are more setup steps involved but the above should let you try some sample conversions. I set the output to 720x480 @ 6.3Mbps because I ultimately wanted to burn to DVD after editing out the commercials with Video Redo. You may want to output a higher resolution if you want to keep in HD, or a lower resolution if targeting commercial detection.

When I first installed DVRMSToolbox, it could process a *.ts concurrent with the live recording. Now mine doesn't, and I haven't determined why -- I'm not sure if the timing of that was when I upgraded to 1.2.1.4 or now.

If you do the above, try it against a file which has been recording at least 5 minutes but is not complete yet, and see what happens.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by dvd_maniac

When I try to configure filters I get the following error

Sorry, I don't know what that would be. It sounds like some component is not installed or at the right version level.

I'd suggest asking on the DVRMSToolbox forums at http://babgvant.com/forums/

[dvd_maniac]

When I get to the step to configure filters I get the following error:

http://www.parow.us/DVRMSerror.jpg

[dvd_maniac]

What version do you use Sam?