Reasons to switch to SageTV from MythTV?

[fuzzybee]

Hello, all. I'm a 4+ year MythTV veteran. Currently, I have a backend, a backend/frontend, and two additional frontends. These currently share 6 tuners - 2 PVR-250s, 1 HD HomeRun, 1 QAM digital tuner, and a cable box over FireWire.

My wife has been at home since our daughter was born two months ago, so she's used the MythTV system a lot more. She likes it OK, except for the Live TV mode - it can be a little bit confusing. As a result, I get a lot of grief, because she can't (won't?) figure out how to, for instance, tune to TLC. *sigh*

Because of the general voiced opinions of those "in the know" on the MythTV mailing list, I guess I'm lucky to have Live TV at all. Apparently, I'm ignorant for even wanting to channel surf. The issues that exist with it (browsing channels across tuners, for instance) don't appear to be on any of the developers' to-dos.

Would SageTV give me (or, more truthfully, my wife) a better Live TV user experience? What other advantages would it give me? What would I lose?

TIA for the responses.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by fuzzybee

The issues that exist with it (browsing channels across tuners, for instance) don't appear to be on any of the developers' to-dos.

Would SageTV give me (or, more truthfully, my wife) a better Live TV user experience? What other advantages would it give me? What would I lose?

TIA for the responses.

Welcome to the SageTV community. I've not used MythTV so I'm not familiar with the liveTV limitations. So if you want to hit channel-up it doesn't go to the next channel? Is that the problem or is it more than that?

If that is the issue then yes, SageTV handles that fine. I (or others here) can add more detail on how it works with SageTV once I know that is your issue for sure.

[fuzzybee]

A big problem is that if, for instance, I'm watching a channel on one of the analog tuners, I can't channel up/down to one of the digital tuners. I *can* go to the program guide (which, for some reason, isn't exactly sorted by channel number, but that may be a configuration error on my part) and cycle up/down through the channels to get to what I'm looking for, but there's no real channel-surfing, to speak.

[stanger89]

Well that's easy, Sage provides the user one cohesive, integrated guide with all data from all channels merged together. The user never has to know what tuner a channel is on, you just pick the channel and it tunes it.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by fuzzybee

A big problem is that if, for instance, I'm watching a channel on one of the analog tuners, I can't channel up/down to one of the digital tuners. I *can* go to the program guide (which, for some reason, isn't exactly sorted by channel number, but that may be a configuration error on my part) and cycle up/down through the channels to get to what I'm looking for, but there's no real channel-surfing, to speak.

I see. Well let me explain my setup in general terms and then how it works with liveTV for me in SageTV.

I have a Hauppauge PVR USB2 (analog), Hauppauge PVR500 (analog), SiliconDust HDHR (digital QAM) and HD-PVR (analog sort of). For my HD-PVR channels the HD-PVR is connected to my HD cable box and channel changing for that device happens via a USBUIRT - hopefully firewire eventually once I set that up.

The TV Guide in SageTV is all one guide that includes your channels from all tuners digital or non-digital.

In SageTV to start LiveTV I can select LiveTV from the menu or use my remote button that is linked to LiveTV to start it up. I have mine set to start on a certain channel every time, but you can set it to start on the last watched channel as well. You can also start liveTV from the TV Guide if you want. Channels are in order of the channel number and all channels can be customized to your own channel number if you want so that way you can rearrange or renumber channels if you desire.

Once in liveTV it picks the first available tuner for that channel based on a priority list in your setup. You can use channel up or down to surf channels. There is a delay when switching channels, but not more than a few seconds or so for me - sometimes a little longer when switching between HD-PVR channels since I'm using the IR blaster and it takes time for it to send the channel change to the cable box.

Hope that helps. Note: I use the Windows version of SageTV, but it's my understanding that the Linux version works the same.

[stuckless]

SageTV Advantages (over MythTV in my Oppinion)
* Integrated EPG provider

* Extenders (HD and MVP)
This was a real selling feature for me. I didn't want to put pc clients in all the viewing areas. Allow you to use a central server and use thin extender clients to bringing the content to your TV

* Support, for me, has been great... from both Sage itself and the forums.

* I find the sage menus to be more intuitive than MythTV

SageTV disadvantages (over MythTV)
* Wiz.bin - Sage does have a database, but it's proprietary, and it prone to corruption. backup often.

* Licensing Hell. As with any commercial product, there are going to be licenses. Sage, like other multiplatform vendors, have decided that each platform requires a different license and the license is non transferrable. ie, if you decide you later want to run on windows, but you have bought the linux version, then you'll have to buy the windows version, even though you have a license. Sage also has client and server licenses.

* Myth has better support for external gaming, such as Mame, etc.

* Lack of out of the box support for external Movie and TV metadata (ie IMDB, TV.COM, etc)

[fuzzybee]

Thanks for the responses, everyone.

If I have a Linux server, can I use Windows boxes to play back? Does Sage support multiple servers?

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by fuzzybee

If I have a Linux server, can I use Windows boxes to play back?

Any type of client can connect to any type of server, provided they are using the same version.

Does Sage support multiple servers?

While you can run multiple servers, and clients can choose which server to connect to, the servers do not talk to each other & share EPG/recording info.

A full server can be used as a network encoder, if you absolutley need to have additional tuners in another PC, but that will then act as a network encoder & client for the main server; you won't end up with 2 servers to connect to in this case.

- Andy

[othy]

Originally Posted by stuckless;290730[B

SageTV disadvantages (over MythTV)[/B]

* Licensing Hell. As with any commercial product, there are going to be licenses. Sage, like other multiplatform vendors, have decided that each platform requires a different license and the license is non transferrable. ie, if you decide you later want to run on windows, but you have bought the linux version, then you'll have to buy the windows version, even though you have a license. Sage also has client and server licenses.

In my experience, "licensing hell" may be a bit strong. Yes, it's a commercial product so you do have to deal with licenses--which is an obvious disadvantage vs. a free solution--but I don't think the licensing processes or policies cause hell for many users. Definitely be sure to clarify your licensing needs before you jump in. And on that note, Sage does offer a trial period. Not as long as some would like, but definitely a good idea and worth the time/effort before purchasing all of the licenses.

WAF has been great in my case. We came to Sage from Tivo. The only issues for my wife during the transition was her frustration at my desire to keep tweaking things.

YMMV

Tim

[bastafidli]

I think the #1 and ONLY inconvenience for me was the inability to try the Linux version and or transfer Windows license between Linux/Windows.

[stuckless]

In my experience, "licensing hell" may be a bit strong.

Maybe, but I've seen a fair number of people on the forum that don't understand the licensing model. ie, can you use windows licensed clients on linux servers, etc, etc. It all leads to a confusing licensing policy, and I mention it strongly here, because if anyone is going to go from open source to Sage, then they really need to understand what they are getting into. And anytime you are used to flexibility of open sourced software, any restrictions, will seem like hell

And on that note, Sage does offer a trial period.

Again, part of the the license hell, is that sage only does this for Windows users. I'm a licensed user, but the fact that I could not evaluate the linux version before I invested, did put me off a little. I think that allowing a trial license for linux is especially valuable, since there may be hardware issues outide of Sage's control and determining that before you invest is important.

[stewart710]

Plus the trial period is way too short. I've been trying to get my full version of Sagetv to work correctly for years. I don't know how you'd do it in a few weeks. Maybe if you are only screwing around with SD, but HD is a tweaking project.

[tmiranda]

Originally Posted by stewart710

Plus the trial period is way too short. I've been trying to get my full version of Sagetv to work correctly for years. I don't know how you'd do it in a few weeks. Maybe if you are only screwing around with SD, but HD is a tweaking project.

I've also been tweaking Sage for a while. I wish their trial period was 24 months.

[Norm258]

I jumped from MythTV to Sage not that long ago and I'm quite happy I did. A few things put me off of Myth and that was simply the poor support for the HD-PVR in a stable release.

Sage is just more stable and cleaner looking. I love the online features - makes watching internet video on demand easy and useable. The guide is straight-forward and you can manage PIP or background - with the HD-PVR, it is full 720p video coming in and on Mythtv it pretty much killed my system to try and serve that up.

Much too many reasons why it just works better. Not to say there aren't a few quirks that I have found - latest version, for example, with the Placeshifter (the only client available on linux) fast forward/rewind causes you to jump randomly through the video and not in the direction you want it to.

My 2 cents.

Norm

[boojiboy]

Hmmm... All very interesting. I've just recently set up my MythTV box. I've yet to tweak the screen so it still displays oddly. I like the ability to do anything on it but I miss the slickness of Tivo. The fact that SageTV is written in Java is also interesting.

[Peggysis]

Originally Posted by Opus4

Any type of client can connect to any type of server, provided they are using the same version.

While you can run multiple servers, and clients can choose which server to connect to, the servers do not talk to each other & share EPG/recording info.

A full server can be used as a network encoder, if you absolutley need to have additional tuners in another PC, but that will then act as a network encoder & client for the main server; you won't end up with 2 servers to connect to in this case.

- Andy

That reminds me! I recently upgraded my Windows SageTV server to version 6.5, while my Linux SageTV server and my Windows SageTV Client are still running 6.4. I was pleasantly surprised to find that I could not only access the videos on my Linux box from the Windows server, but also play recorded TV shows from the Linux box over the network. Previously, I had to wait for a video to be copied over.

I don't remember seeing the network option before (from the Media Library menu). I'm not sure if this is a new 6.5 feature, or due to better network speed, since I also upgraded my wireless network to 11n. Either way, I can now watch everything from either the bedroom (Windows server) or the living room (Windows Client, can connect to either server).

Love it! Thank you SageTV!

-Judy

Network upgrade info:
TRENDnet TEW-633GRGB wireless N router ($85)
ENCORE ENLWI-N PCI 2.3 Wireless Adapter ($20 on sale!)
>100Mbps wireless (priceless!)