HD-PVR recordings break up after rewind or fast forward

[ryttingm]

Well I tried out Catalyst 8.7 tonight on my ati 3450 and the ff/rw artifacts are gone. I can now playback HD-PVR files without issue on my server. Woot!

-Mike

[otakucode]

The new Catalyst drivers FINALLY fixed this problem for me as well!

[ben_95sl1]

ryttingm and otakucode, would really appreciate it if you could provide exactly what settings you are successfully using in sagetv (h.264 decoders in properties file, vmr9, fse, xp/vista, sagetv ver, VGA/DVI/Comp out)?

If you are using the arcsoft decoders, are you using hardware accel? I upgraded to 8.7 with no changes: still get some minor stutters with hw accel off, and get unbearable artifacting/macroblocking issues with hw accel on. This happens in sagetv, does not happen with arcsoft player.

FYI: I fixed the ffwd/rew problem before 8.7; it all went away when I specified the arcsoft decoder for audio.

thanks for any feedback,
Ben

[Chriscic]

Ben,
To be clear, did you get things working properly in Sage with Catalyst 8.6?

I'm running the AGP card and therefore can't get 8.7 yet (until VisionTek updates their driver package since ATI doesn't support AGP).

I also noticed you mentioned that you weren't getting the issue at all in the Total Media Extreme app. I am getting the issue there. Were you running 8.6 before 8.7, or some older version of the drivers?

Thanks,
-Chris

[ben_95sl1]

Here summary of what I have discovered up to now:

-My recordings at 720p have stutter type flashing defect in them, doesn't matter what pc or software I use, it's repetitive. This caused endless troubleshooting issues. Switched to 1080i, and the recordings themselves seem to be fixed, or atleast better.

-Playback in VMR9 with no HW accel on both my PCs is stuttery: but switching to overlay is perfect on my more powerful client pc (amd 5000+ X2 overclocked), and better, but not acceptable on my weaker server (amd 3800+ X2 EE)....cpu usage is high but not 100%.

-HW accel enabled on my client PC with my nvidia 7900gs stutters ONLY in sage as far as I can tell.

-HW accel enabled on my server with ati hd3450 and catalyst 8.7 (and 8.6 and 8.5) is still garbled, again, ONLY in sagetv.

-For above, I am using the arcsoft decoders...I have stuck with them because powerdvd has given me even more problems.

In conclusion, the best I can do now is use overlay and no hw accel, and it's still not acceptable on my server: any help appreciated. As far as I'm concerned, there is something up with sage and how it is interacting with hw accel. I have not tried the newer betas (past 6.4.6), but I doubt I'm lucky enough to have that fixed.

[GollyJer]

-My recordings at 720p have stutter type flashing defect in them, doesn't matter what pc or software I use, it's repetitive. This caused endless troubleshooting issues. Switched to 1080i, and the recordings themselves seem to be fixed, or atleast better.

This is a known issue with the HD-PVR firmware and "parallel" recordings 480p, 720p. The best solution is to set your STB to output 480i for 4x3 and 1080i for 16x9. You've already figured this out but I thought I'd post the reason in case you didn't know.

-Playback in VMR9 with no HW accel on both my PCs is stuttery: but switching to overlay is perfect on my more powerful client pc (amd 5000+ X2 overclocked), and better, but not acceptable on my weaker server (amd 3800+ X2 EE)....cpu usage is high but not 100%.

I've had better luck setting SageTV to use the Arcsoft Demuxer in addition to the Arcsoft audio and video decoders. To enable a 3rd party demuxer you have to add a registry key. For Arcsoft, paste the following into a empty text file and then change the extension to .reg and double click the file.

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Frey Technologies\Common\DirectShow]
"CustomDemuxGuid"="{D5F9370B-E232-464F-BE29-A885B1249190}"

to remove, follow the same procedure but use this text.

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Frey Technologies\Common\DirectShow]
"CustomDemuxGuid"=-

-HW accel enabled on my client PC with my nvidia 7900gs stutters ONLY in sage as far as I can tell.

-HW accel enabled on my server with ati hd3450 and catalyst 8.7 (and 8.6 and 8.5) is still garbled, again, ONLY in sagetv.

If you're using Vista this is probably a video renderer issue.

-For above, I am using the arcsoft decoders...I have stuck with them because powerdvd has given me even more problems.

Windows seems to have issues with PowerDVD's audio decoder. Even if I set it to a higher filter merit Windows will build the playback graph using PDVD's video renderer and Arcsofts audio decoder. The problem is only magnified in Sage from what I can tell.
Sticking to Arcsoft seems to work the best (not to mention it comes free with the HD-PVR).

-Jeremy

[Taddeusz]

Wow! Using this technique I was able to get the Cyberlink H.264 decoder to work without stuttering! Instead of using the Arcsoft splitter I used Haali Media Spliter (AR). That seemed to do the trick quite nicely! Now when I set the merits to prefer the Cyberlink decoders everything plays smoothly.

The only odd thing I noticed is that when the resolution changes mid stream it trips up the decoder a bit. Doing a quick FF corrects it.

The video looks MUCH better compared to the output from Arcsoft.

[Shield]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

Wow! Using this technique I was able to get the Cyberlink H.264 decoder to work without stuttering! Instead of using the Arcsoft splitter I used Haali Media Spliter (AR). That seemed to do the trick quite nicely! Now when I set the merits to prefer the Cyberlink decoders everything plays smoothly.

The only odd thing I noticed is that when the resolution changes mid stream it trips up the decoder a bit. Doing a quick FF corrects it.

The video looks MUCH better compared to the output from Arcsoft.

You mean just by applying that registry change you are now about to use the Cyberlink decoders? I wonder if this will allow me to use the Divx H.264 beta and/or CoreAvc with better results?

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by Shield

You mean just by applying that registry change you are now about to use the Cyberlink decoders? I wonder if this will allow me to use the Divx H.264 beta and/or CoreAvc with better results?

I knew the Cyberlink H.264 decoder worked properly with Haali. My MKV files play through Haali in Sage. I used DSFMgr to get the CLSID for the Haali Media Splitter (AR) filter. Used the same process to install the custom demuxer. Changed my filter merits around to prefer Cyberlink rather than Arcsoft as it was set before. Rebooted. Voila! HD-PVR recordings are playing back without major issues using the Cyberlink H.264 decoder.

I notice the video tends to stutter a little bit in the begging but settles down quite quickly. Then there's the resolution change thing. Not a huge deal. I'm just happy that I figured out how to get Cyberlink to work well enough with the HD-PVR recordings.

Now all I need is 5.1 surround from my HD-PVR.

[Shield]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

I knew the Cyberlink H.264 decoder worked properly with Haali. My MKV files play through Haali in Sage. I used DSFMgr to get the CLSID for the Haali Media Splitter (AR) filter. Used the same process to install the custom demuxer. Changed my filter merits around to prefer Cyberlink rather than Arcsoft as it was set before. Rebooted. Voila! HD-PVR recordings are playing back without major issues using the Cyberlink H.264 decoder.

I notice the video tends to stutter a little bit in the begging but settles down quite quickly. Then there's the resolution change thing. Not a huge deal. I'm just happy that I figured out how to get Cyberlink to work well enough with the HD-PVR recordings.

Now all I need is 5.1 surround from my HD-PVR.

It's that whole "settles down" thing that I have a problem with. I like to record HD baseball games and I ff about 20 seconds between each pitch to get through the games quickly. So right now my frustration is I'm watching a lot of slightly stuttering video due to all the FF'ing. This sucks. On normal HD shows it's no big deal as I'm not ff'ing all the time.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by Shield

It's that whole "settles down" thing that I have a problem with. I like to record HD baseball games and I ff about 20 seconds between each pitch to get through the games quickly. So right now my frustration is I'm watching a lot of slightly stuttering video due to all the FF'ing. This sucks. On normal HD shows it's no big deal as I'm not ff'ing all the time.

With the limited amount that I played around with it this morning before I had to leave to work the only "settling down" I noticed was at the very beginning of playback. And at least for my computer it took approximately maybe 3-5 seconds for playback to become completely smooth.

The resolution change is a different issue. It probably throws the Cyberlink decoder off a bit when it happens. All I did was hit FF once and it started playing smoothly. Although I bet I could have hit REW and had the same affect.

I'll play around with it some more when I get home from work. Didn't have any time to mess around with it last night as I had a date. Not going to geek out when I have a beautiful woman I can be messing around with instead.

[Shield]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

With the limited amount that I played around with it this morning before I had to leave to work the only "settling down" I noticed was at the very beginning of playback. And at least for my computer it took approximately maybe 3-5 seconds for playback to become completely smooth.

The resolution change is a different issue. It probably throws the Cyberlink decoder off a bit when it happens. All I did was hit FF once and it started playing smoothly. Although I bet I could have hit REW and had the same affect.

I'll play around with it some more when I get home from work. Didn't have any time to mess around with it last night as I had a date. Not going to geek out when I have a beautiful woman I can be messing around with instead.

Messing around with a beautiful woman is always more rewarding. However afterwards I do like my TV and sandwiches.

[GollyJer]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

Wow! Using this technique I was able to get the Cyberlink H.264 decoder to work without stuttering! Instead of using the Arcsoft splitter I used Haali Media Spliter (AR). That seemed to do the trick quite nicely! Now when I set the merits to prefer the Cyberlink decoders everything plays smoothly.

The only odd thing I noticed is that when the resolution changes mid stream it trips up the decoder a bit. Doing a quick FF corrects it.

The video looks MUCH better compared to the output from Arcsoft.

Interesting. I agree the Cyberlink decoders give the best picture out there, but when I tried using their demuxer & decoders Sage didn't like it at all. I tried Haali without success as well, but maybe I didn't try Haali + Cyberlink Decoders.

Can you do me a favor and post the DShowGraphFilters= line from your playback log?

Thanks,
Jeremy

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by GollyJer

Interesting. I agree the Cyberlink decoders give the best picture out there, but when I tried using their demuxer & decoders Sage didn't like it at all. I tried Haali without success as well, but maybe I didn't try Haali + Cyberlink Decoders.

Can you do me a favor and post the DShowGraphFilters= line from your playback log?

Thanks,
Jeremy

Here is the CLSID is used for the Haali Media Splitter (AR), {564FD788-86C9-4444-971E-CC4A243DA150}. The other Haali Media Splitter filter did not work but the "(AR)" one did. Here are the pertinent lines from my log this morning:

Fri 8/22 6:19:04.302 DShowGraphFilters=AudRend,VidRend,Line21 Decoder,CyberLink Audio Decoder (PDVD8),CyberLink H.264/AVC Decoder (PDVD8),Custom Demultiplexer,\\htpc\video 2 (e)\StarTrekDeepSpaceNine-RulesofAcquisition-5987608-0.ts,
Fri 8/22 6:19:04.302 VideoFrame.timeSelected2(Thu 8/21 1:00:00.035, true) currFile=MediaFile[id=6093438 A[5987608,5987599,"Star Trek: Deep Space Nine",11163@0821.01:00,60] host=htpc encodedBy=Hauppauge HD PVR Capture Device Best-H.264 format=MPEG2-TS 0:00:00 20000 kbps [#0 Video[H.264 1920x1088 interlaced]#1 Audio[AAC 48000 Hz 2 channels  MAIN idx=1 id=1100]] \\htpc\video 2 (e)\StarTrekDeepSpaceNine-RulesofAcquisition-5987608-0.ts, Seg0[Thu 8/21 1:00:00.035-Thu 8/21 2:00:00.025]] realDur=3595795

[Shield]

Taddeusz,
I'm curious about your setup. Right now my H.264 HD PVR files playback fine, but on HD baseball games I fast forward quite a bit, like between every pitch. I have my ff time set to about 20 seconds. Anyway, I get some micro stuttering often when jumping ahead like this - it would be really smooth if I didn't advance all the time.

Can you test something like this with your setup? I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks,
Shawn

[jprine01]

I have a 4850 with new drivers same problem as you guys. VMR9/Overlay etc all plays and looks really good (uses 5%cpu!!) I guess I need to disable HW Accel... Thats kind of disapointing because before I got HW accel working it didnt play so smooth or look nearly as good. I couldn't get the powerdvd working, but I did get the hali splitter working with arcsoft decoders on a different pc. Doesn't play as smooth as the computer that had hw accel working though.

[Taddeusz]

Ok, I'll try that when I get home.

BTW, this is my client system that is listed in my signature. I have 3D turned on, VMR9 enabled and FSE disabled. I've never had any HD playback problems with that system using those settings.

[Shield]

Well so far this seems to have helped quite a bit. Enabling Cyberlink 8 to playback the H.264 files and turning on hardware acceleration within the Cyberlink player I'm getting like 2-5% cpu utilization and (according to the wife) my HD PVR files are playing back fine, even with fast forwarding and rewinding.

So we'll see how it goes tonight when I'm watching the Boston game in HD.

Thanks for everyone's help. I wonder what the deal is with Sage's MPEG Demux.

[ben_95sl1]

I didn't get much success with this, but the arcsoft demux setting made my audio stop in mpeg2 so I decided to avoid messing with that just now.

Anyway, I STILL had issues with recordings themselves having stutters at 1080i (which I thought was fixed, because I though that was 720p only!). So in desparation, I removed my usb drive from the case and put it in the pc, connected to IDE instead: hoping that PERHAPS recording to USB drive with two pvr cards while commercial skipping the mpeg2 could cause a slight enough issue on the USB lines/bus that the transfer form the HD-PVR somehow causes a problem in the recording (everything else on usb is ultra low bandwith items) Well, have not seen it occur yet, but have not spent enough time to confirm so still unknown.

Good luck to all!
Ben

[ben_95sl1]

Now back to 720p and so far so good: with 1080i, there was some weird deinterlacing type problem which occurs where bright things flash as they move across the screen. Don't know what it is, but doesn't occur in 720p.

Right now, it works just like I would have expected months ago. The settings that are working for me:

-Overlay only
-No Hardware Accel
-Arcsoft Video and Audio Decoders
-Removed other high bandwidth devices from USB (put harddrive in with pc, now connected via ide)
-720p recording only

I tried VMR9 again and it's a stuttery mess. Hardware accel occasionally crashed the ati driver, so I'll save that for later.

Ben