HDHomeRun 68 channel remap limit / Native QAM tuning?

[Opus4]

I've passed the feedback on to SageTV -- I'll post back when I hear more.

- Andy

[taylork]

Seems a MediaPortal user has found a fix for this (for MediaPortal):
http://forum.team-mediaportal.com/1-...am-scan-41115/

Perhaps some of the more technically inclined among us (which I am unfortunately not) can use that to assist w/ a fix for SageTV....?

[Conejo]

Originally Posted by taylork

Seems a MediaPortal user has found a fix for this (for MediaPortal):
http://forum.team-mediaportal.com/1-...am-scan-41115/

Perhaps some of the more technically inclined among us (which I am unfortunately not) can use that to assist w/ a fix for SageTV....?

I thought of doing something like this when SiliconDust first started using the BDA drivers and creating remaps. Since the HDHR Setup program creates a remap (translation) pointer file of real PID to virtual, why are we limited to using numbers 2 - 69 when you're just passing a virtual token to start the streaming process?

I wanted to edit the Digital Channel.xml file to see what the real limitations were. My problem (now don't get started) is I don't have more than 13 clear-qam video channels. The second is that the SageTV/BDA format seams to use only the first x of the x-y-z channel matrix to tune.

The process noted in the link basically has you doing a discovery scan in the HDHR Setup application, saving the Digital Cable.xml then utilizing excel to hand assigning virtual channels beyond the 68 total channels cap.
Since SageTV doesn't use the 'Digital Cable.xml' file for virtual scan you'd have to hand-remap your virtual numbers into sage like you do already, but using an x-y or x-y-z channel scheme.

Maybe I'll do some experiments...

[Opus4]

I received some more info & it turns out that there is more to it than initially indicated to me, but it should be possible to get past the 68 channel limit.


Again: I haven't had time to try this and it turns out that I don't have more than 68 clear QAM channels to test with. I'm just passing this info along in case anyone wants to try this.


First, you'll need a new dll file to go with v6.4.4: DShowCapture.dll. Close SageTV, replace your existing DShowCapture.dll file, then restart SageTV.


Then, follow SiliconDust's instructions for configuring the cable source for SageTV, with a few changes:

You'll still need to do a cable scan using the HDHR software to create the .scn file needed by SageTV. You may also need to do some editing of the .scn file to add more than 68 channels, see further below.

When configuring the HDHR QAM source in SageTV, choose "Cable" instead of "Antenna".

I'm told that you should also do a scan in SageTV to turn the .scn file into the .frq file that SageTV needs for tuning.


Setting up more than 68 channels:

Since the HDHR software only adds 68 channels to the .scn file, it looks like you'll have to add the channels to the .scn file manually. To assign the major & minor channel numbers in the .scn file, I was told that: if a channel carries channel description packets, SageTV uses major minor to pick up a program. If there is no channel description information (a QAM channel often doesn't have it), or major minor are wrong, SageTV uses program (prog) that the hdhomerun_config.exe program gives out to select a program. If you have a program number, but do not know the major minor values, you can assign zero to the major number and set minor the same as the program value.

Example
The HDHR scan log may contain:

SCANNING: 675000000 (us-cable:104, us-irc:104)

LOCK: qam256 (ss=98 snq=95 seq=100)
PROGRAM: 1: 0.0
PROGRAM: 2: 0.0
PROGRAM: 4: 0.0
PROGRAM: 6: 0.0
PROGRAM: 7: 0.0 (encrypted)
PROGRAM: 8: 0.0 (encrypted)
PROGRAM: 9: 0.0 (encrypted)
PROGRAM: 10: 0.0 (encrypted)
PROGRAM: 11: 0.0 (encrypted)
PROGRAM: 12: 0.0 (encrypted)

This scan shows 4 clear QAM channels with physical channel 104 and program 1, 2, 4, & 6. You can assign 0 to major for them and add the following entries into *.scn or *.frq

CH:71 major:0 minor:1 prog:1 phy:104 frq:675000000  #:Name1
CH:72 major:0 minor:2 prog:2 phy:104 frq:675000000  #:Name2
CH:73 major:0 minor:4 prog:4 phy:104 frq:675000000  #:Name3
CH:74 major:0 minor:6 prog:6 phy:104 frq:675000000  #:Name4

Alternative (?) -- I wonder if you could enable different sets of channels in the HDHR software, and make copies of the resulting .scn files. Maybe the lines from one .scn file could be added to another & then tweaked to more easily add the additional channels?


If more problems are encountered, I can pass things along to SageTV about this issue, or you could file a bug report & perhaps work directly with the SageTV developer.

- Andy

[Conejo]

So far, I've downloaded 6.4.4 and replaced the DShowCapture.dll file.

Now I'm looking at the virtual scan files (.scn) created by the HDHR Setup application...

# Generated by HDHomeRun Setup
CH:1 major:80 minor:1 prog:2 phy:2 frq:1 #:KCBADT
CH:2 major:80 minor:2 prog:3 phy:3 frq:1 #:KIONDT
CH:3 major:80 minor:3 prog:1 phy:4 frq:1 #:KGODT
CH:4 major:80 minor:4 prog:2 phy:5 frq:1 #:KQEDDT
...
CH:65 major:87 minor:2 prog:45 phy:66 frq:1 #:PARTY
CH:66 major:87 minor:3 prog:46 phy:67 frq:1 #:SHWTUN
CH:67 major:87 minor:4 prog:47 phy:68 frq:1 #:OPRA
CH:68 major:87 minor:5 prog:48 phy:69 frq:1 #:RETROA

This output is still utilizing the REMAP configuration, since it's using the renumbered PHY (2-69) and a FRQ of '1'.
I'm assuming that the new SageTV 6.4.4 setup will need the actual PHY and FRQ so it can pass that tuning information directly to the HDHR helper app.

[Conejo]

Additional::: SiliconDust has released 'HDHomeRun Windows Software - 20080628beta1' that includes the following Application Support
ATSC/QAM
ATSC/Remap
BeyondTV
Custom
SageTV
TotalMedia

[off topic] For some reason the Forum webpage won't let me use any icons, it's like the scripts are broken [/off topic]

[Conejo]

I've posted a question on the SiliconDust forum to see if the HDHR interface need to have its 'mode' reset from REMAP to NATIVE or FILTER.

I'm assuming we'll be required to provide SageTV unremapped FRQ & PGM info in the .scn files AND have the HDHR interface set to FILTER.

[taylork]

Originally Posted by Opus4

... snip...

First, you'll need a new dll file to go with v6.4.4: DShowCapture.dll. Close SageTV, replace your existing DShowCapture.dll file, then restart SageTV.


Then, follow SiliconDust's instructions for configuring the cable source for SageTV, with a few changes:

You'll still need to do a cable scan using the HDHR software to create the .scn file needed by SageTV. You may also need to do some editing of the .scn file to add more than 68 channels, see further below.

When configuring the HDHR QAM source in SageTV, choose "Cable" instead of "Antenna".

I'm told that you should also do a scan in SageTV to turn the .scn file into the .frq file that SageTV needs for tuning.


Setting up more than 68 channels:

Since the HDHR software only adds 68 channels to the .scn file, it looks like you'll have to add the channels to the .scn file manually. To assign the major & minor channel numbers in the .scn file, I was told that: if a channel carries channel description packets, SageTV uses major minor to pick up a program. If there is no channel description information (a QAM channel often doesn't have it), or major minor are wrong, SageTV uses program (prog) that the hdhomerun_config.exe program gives out to select a program. If you have a program number, but do not know the major minor values, you can assign zero to the major number and set minor the same as the program value.

Example
The HDHR scan log may contain:

SCANNING: 675000000 (us-cable:104, us-irc:104)

LOCK: qam256 (ss=98 snq=95 seq=100)
PROGRAM: 1: 0.0
PROGRAM: 2: 0.0
PROGRAM: 4: 0.0
PROGRAM: 6: 0.0
PROGRAM: 7: 0.0 (encrypted)
PROGRAM: 8: 0.0 (encrypted)
PROGRAM: 9: 0.0 (encrypted)
PROGRAM: 10: 0.0 (encrypted)
PROGRAM: 11: 0.0 (encrypted)
PROGRAM: 12: 0.0 (encrypted)

This scan shows 4 clear QAM channels with physical channel 104 and program 1, 2, 4, & 6. You can assign 0 to major for them and add the following entries into *.scn or *.frq

CH:71 major:0 minor:1 prog:1 phy:104 frq:675000000  #:Name1
CH:72 major:0 minor:2 prog:2 phy:104 frq:675000000  #:Name2
CH:73 major:0 minor:4 prog:4 phy:104 frq:675000000  #:Name3
CH:74 major:0 minor:6 prog:6 phy:104 frq:675000000  #:Name4

- Andy

Ok, some progress... I think.

Unfortunately I'm an idiot, so maybe I'm just spinning my wheels...

Did a Dos-window scan of one of my tuners which generated a log file of all of the various channels/frequencies/etc.

Then edited my .scn file in the SageTV directly for that particular tuner and manually added ALL of the QAM channel info, as Andy shows above (~130, give or take... leaving out the music channels). Yeah, it took way too long.

Started Sage, went in to edit the video sources, went into the tuner I'm testing, did a channel scan and it found all those that I added (so it says).

Still not sure how to map/remap this so it actually works. Trying to view any channel in the lineup crashes the application (did I mention that I'm an idiot?).

Waiting for the Sage developer to respond to my progress.

[Conejo]

I did something similar, Taylork. I created a database and dumped 74 channels of data into it and mapped the correct PHY to the FRQ.

So, here's what SageTV created for the .frq from the .scn file

[...]
#format:
#SCHEME:UNKNOW (0)
CH:1 major:0 minor:2 prog:0 phy:28 frq:249000000 mod:0 inv:0 #:KCBADT
CH:2 major:0 minor:3 prog:0 phy:28 frq:249000000 mod:0 inv:0 #:KIONDT
CH:3 major:0 minor:1 prog:0 phy:29 frq:255000000 mod:0 inv:0 #:KGODT
CH:4 major:0 minor:2 prog:0 phy:29 frq:255000000 mod:0 inv:0 #:KQEDDT
[...]
CH:67 major:0 minor:47 prog:0 phy:89 frq:615000000 mod:0 inv:0 #:OPRA
CH:68 major:0 minor:48 prog:0 phy:89 frq:615000000 mod:0 inv:0 #:RETROA
CH:69 major:0 minor:49 prog:0 phy:89 frq:615000000 mod:0 inv:0 #:RCKESP
CH:70 major:0 minor:50 prog:0 phy:89 frq:615000000 mod:0 inv:0 #:RCKESP
CH:71 major:0 minor:1 prog:0 phy:90 frq:621000000 mod:0 inv:0 #:KSBWDT
CH:72 major:0 minor:2 prog:0 phy:90 frq:621000000 mod:0 inv:0 #:KSBWDT2

When I attempted to tune in an HD channel I instead got one of the music stations. A good sign, but not a great sign. When I monitor the HDHR Config (GUI) to see what's being tuned it shows 615000000 Program 5 for every channel change on the HDHR tuner.

I'm wondering if someone forgot to remove a hard code in the new DShowCapture.dll ?

[Opus4]

Thanks for the testing & feedback. We will need to talk to SiliconDust again & I'll post an update when I have more info, but it might be a day or more.

- Andy

[Conejo]

I just noticed that SageTV 6.4.4 with the replacement DshowCapture.dll is throwing an error file:

[Conejo]

Additional:
I should have mentioned that I ran the previous tests using 6.4.4 as an update to 6.3.x rather than a clean install. Should have done a CLEAN INSTALL for testing purposes. My bad.

Test #1 :: [Uninstalled SageTV; Installed 6.4.4 (.dll not replaced yet)]
I ran Sage through the setup wizard, HDHR tuner install, selected 'Cable' told it not to automatically scan. Selected 'Disable All Channels' and selected 'Scan for Available Channels': detected 13 channels... showing remap #s... from where? No .scn files present. OK, it used the Digital Cable.xml and created a .frq with the remap numbers. (This was using the original dShowCapture.dll shipped with 6.4.4) No errors.

Test #2 :: [This test had no .scn files, has replaced version of dShowCapture.dll]
Removed tuner from Sage; Exited; replaced with new .dll; Deleted 'Digital Cable.xml'; Renamed previously generated .frq file to ~pre-dll.frq
I Ran Sage and installed the the HDHR Tuner, selected 'Cable', told it not to automatically scan, 'Disable All Channels' then selected 'Scan for Available Channels': and... crash, because there's no .scn file.
Error, see pid2432

Test #3 :: [Included manually created .scn virtual scan file containing 72 QAM channels]
This time, 'Scan for Available Channels' found the .scn and created a .frq file from my 72 channel list. Attempting to use VIEW crashed the session.
Error, see pid2420

[taylork]

Originally Posted by Conejo

Additional:
...snip...

Test #3 :: [Included manually created .scn virtual scan file containing 72 QAM channels]
This time, 'Scan for Available Channels' found the .scn and created a .frq file from my 72 channel list. Attempting to use VIEW crashed the session.
Error, see pid2420

This is as far as I've gotten as well.

After if finds the channels, "View" kills SageTV right then and there. Then I restarted it and re-ran the scan, then before pressing "View", I backed out to the Guide and attempted to view live tv... but it can't find a source.

I think I've pretty much reached the end of my usefulness in getting this figured out on my end. (Manually creating my .scn file from my manual scan was quite the endeavor.) But if anyone has any thoughts/ideas, feel free to pass them along. But other than that, I'll wait to see if the Sage/SiliconDust folks can't get this hammered out.

[Opus4]

You can download a dll update for v6.4.4 at the same place as before: DShowCapture.dll

This should fix the error file issue, but like I said above, we need to talk to SiliconDust some more before trying any more QAM tests with the HDHR.

- Andy

[LehighBri]

I recently downloaded the latest HDHomeRun beta firmware and noticed the following in the changelog:

Software release 20080709beta1
* Detect and track virtual channel numbers.
* Detect msnp.ax PID filter bug (Vista).
* Update channel editor to support native QAM applications.
* Updated support for SageTV channel files.
* Add support for future SageTV native QAM support.
* Add support for future BeyondTV native QAM support.
* Set minimum signal-present threshold to 45%.
* DVB-T related fixes.

Does anyone have any idea what the item in bold could be or mean? Hopefully this is a sign of tighter/easier integration in the future!

* merged *

[carlgar]

see the http:showthread.php?p=288581&postcount=1 thread. It gets interesting around post #10.

Edit: the above link is to this thread. The previous merged post was a different thread at time of post.

[Conejo]

Originally Posted by carlgar

see the http:showthread.php?p=288581&postcount=1 thread. It gets interesting around post #10.

OK, clicking that made me dizzy and disoriented.

On to the topic at hand:
I downloaded the beta1 and then beta2 to see if it worked with our test 6.4.4 and dShowCapture.dll test and... it didn't work. Tho I must say that SiliconDust is doing a lot of work on their side as selecting the PVR Applications in the HDHR application has an effect on how SageTV works (or doesn't) with the tuner files.

The HDHR can now produce .scn 'virtual scan' files for use with SageTV that utilize the 68 remap translation file OR direct QAM tuning by frequency and program without the limit. With this, SageTV should be close to releasing an updated dShowCapture.dll soon. I hope. Pretty please?

[taylork]

Originally Posted by Conejo

OK, clicking that made me dizzy and disoriented.

On to the topic at hand:
I downloaded the beta1 and then beta2 to see if it worked with our test 6.4.4 and dShowCapture.dll test and... it didn't work. Tho I must say that SiliconDust is doing a lot of work on their side as selecting the PVR Applications in the HDHR application has an effect on how SageTV works (or doesn't) with the tuner files.

The HDHR can now produce .scn 'virtual scan' files for use with SageTV that utilize the 68 remap translation file OR direct QAM tuning by frequency and program without the limit. With this, SageTV should be close to releasing an updated dShowCapture.dll soon. I hope. Pretty please?

Just an update for folks who are awaiting proper QAM/HDHR/SageTV integration... I received an email update on Tuesday (July 8th) from one of the Sage folks stating that: "We are working with Silicondust. not done yet."

So, it appears that our issue is being addressed as we speak. Hopefully a solution is soon-coming (and my fingers are crossed for an easier setup process as well -- we can dream, can't we?!).

[tmiranda]

I saw a post from Jafa (developer) over on the SiloconDust forums. He said they are making good progress.

[davefred99]

I wonder if 68 channel limit is working, http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34098