HD-PVR Quality

[JimmyBalboa]

Originally Posted by mikejaner

I would suggest a few things, if you haven't checked them already. Make sure the HDPVR is recording at the highest bitrate in the Sage Detailed Settings. Second, make sure your Cable/Sat box is putting out the native resoution of the signal for whatever channel it's on. My verizon boxes put out 720P for some channels, and 1080i for others. My HDPVR never misses a beat and captures the same resoutions the cable box outputs. I have seen a few people complain about P video recordings being jittery etc.... but I have not seen that issue.

Thanks man, My Satellite receiver is set to 1080i... I will try adjusting to see if it make any difference.

Sage is set to the highest bit rate.

[Taddeusz]

Yea, I have my cable STB set the same way. It outputs the native resolution of the channel it's tuned to. That way there's no scaling going on until it gets output to my TV. The other advantage is that even though Sage may be set to 5.9MB the HD-PVR adjusts that based on the resolution. So a 480i recording is going to take up quite a bit less space than a 720p one, etc.

[davidjade]

Currently I am not able to use component out, just s-video but that is also what my ReplayTV was connected too (I have an older SD-only DirecTV box at the moment). But with the quality I am seeing for SD encoding I am not too hopeful about HD to be honest. The macroblocking is severe in high motion content.

I am also eager to understand why some think the HD-PVR is so outstanding while I see such poor quality (with high motion content). Perhaps there is something about my setup or settings that can be improved. Perhaps the HD-PVR is more tunned for higher resolutions and thus the macroblocks just look bigger in my SD content.

I'm not talking about comparing it to a direct TV-to-tuner connection sitting one foot away either. In my case I'm just comparing it to the on-the-fly mpeg2 recordings that my 5+ year old ReplayTV was doing at 1/2 the bitrate (and resulting file size) of the HD-PVR. I am watching both the HD-PVR's h.264 and the ReplayTV's mpeg2 through the same HD100 extender so I can compare them side-by-side. So for me I am comparing apples to apples, at least on the source re-compression front. The HD-PVR just looks noticibily worst to me. Perhaps this is just the inherant differences between h.264 and vbr mpeg2.

[Skirge01]

Could people please list what their setup consists of (box type, service provider, TV, etc.)? I'm curious if there's a pattern where Dish users think the picture is horrible and cable users do not or are 1080i plasma users happier than 1080p LCD users? We may find that certain types of setups are much more prone to poor picture quality.

My setup:
DirecTV HR21 HD DVR
Panasonic 50" 1080i plasma

Seated 7.5' away on the couch, I can barely notice a difference in some of the details missing. For example, at 6" away, I can clearly see that the white mortar between white bricks on a distant house is not as crisp via the HD-PVR. However, at 7.5', it's barely noticeable and definitely not distracting. Adjusting the picture via software returned some of the details, but not all. That said, the picture is EXTREMELY close to what I see on the HR21.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by davidjade

Currently I am not able to use component out, just s-video but that is also what my ReplayTV was connected too (I have an older SD-only DirecTV box at the moment). But with the quality I am seeing for SD encoding I am not too hopeful about HD to be honest. The macroblocking is severe in high motion content.

I am also eager to understand why some think the HD-PVR is so outstanding while I see such poor quality (with high motion content). Perhaps there is something about my setup or settings that can be improved. Perhaps the HD-PVR is more tunned for higher resolutions and thus the macroblocks just look bigger in my SD content.

I'm not talking about comparing it to a direct TV-to-tuner connection sitting one foot away either. In my case I'm just comparing it to the on-the-fly mpeg2 recordings that my 5+ year old ReplayTV was doing at 1/2 the bitrate (and resulting file size) of the HD-PVR. I am watching both the HD-PVR's h.264 and the ReplayTV's mpeg2 through the same HD100 extender so I can compare them side-by-side. So for me I am comparing apples to apples, at least on the source re-compression front. The HD-PVR just looks noticibily worst to me. Perhaps this is just the inherant differences between h.264 and vbr mpeg2.

I realize you say your ReplayTV is giving you higher quality but it probably also has higher quality components. Probably the quality you are seeing is due to your choice of input. Many of the recordings I am doing are 480i like you are getting through s-video but I am using the component input. My recordings are much better than the MPEG2 recordings I was getting from my PVR150 which were done via s-video. A lot less color banding as well as more accurate colors. The only time I really notice any kind of quality loss would be in high action scenes and only when I'm on my client computer sitting 3 feet away from the screen. I don't notice it on my regular TV at all.

And as you said some of it may be the differences between the type of compression. But it's more likely your choice of input or the quality of the output from your STB.

[Taddeusz]

My setup is as follows:

Cox Cable SA 4240HD to HD-PVR via component
client with a Radeon 3870 using Cyberlink PDVD8 decoder on a 20" Dell Ultrasharp 2007WFP
HD100 with a 32" Sharp SD tube TV (yea, I know, I want an HDTV so bad it hurts)

[paulbeers]

Image quality is outstanding:

Dish Network VIP211 @ 1080i output using component to HDPVR. Playback on HD100's only.

I am definately seeing full HD. Even my wife thinks it looks beautiful. I only capture HD channels with it as I use my 311's (SD receivers) to capture SD only channels (or when the HD-PVR is already in use and I want to record something else).

[JimmyBalboa]

I have a DISH VIP 622 Receiver, Switching to DirectTV monday because of Sages serial control support.

TV is LG 42" 1080p LCD 60 Hz - HDMI

A/V Receiver is Onkyo TX-SR875 and everything hooked up to it is HDMI.

Server is a Shuttle HTPC Quad Core 2.2 Ghz Intel
GeForce 8800 w/HDMI Out
Vista Ultimate x64
4 GB RAM

I don't have a Sage TV HD extender yet, but that's only because they are out of stock. I am new to the SageTV scene. I started looking for alternatives after MS decided to leave DirectTV support out of the latest Media Center update.

I guess I need an HD Extender pretty bad.

[sleonard]

I am getting some good recordings some not so good.

The last episode of Generation Kill on HBO (1080i) had noticable macroblocking esp. in fast motion scenes. That same unit recorded another 1080i show the next day that was outstanding quality.

Yesterday it recorded Mythbusters in 1080i that looked great on my server using Arcsoft + SW decoding but stuttered badly on the HD100 (connected via composite to a SDTV). The next recording played great in both places.

I've been unable to narrow down the issue to a particular HD-PVR, playback method, channel, time of day, heat or anything else. I'm going to have to start keeping a detailed log of every variable that might have an effect but this ain't gonna be easy.

S

[wayner]

Originally Posted by Skirge01

Could people please list what their setup consists of (box type, service provider, TV, etc.)? I'm curious if there's a pattern where Dish users think the picture is horrible and cable users do not or are 1080i plasma users happier than 1080p LCD users? We may find that certain types of setups are much more prone to poor picture quality.

My setup:
DirecTV HR21 HD DVR
Panasonic 50" 1080i plasma

Seated 7.5' away on

I think you should add video card if you are using a PC rather than an extender and connection to TV (HDMI, component, etc.)

[davidjade]

Well, for now I am stuck with what I have (I am way-late to the HD party):

Hughes E2 svideo to HD-PVR
HD100 svideo to Panasonic 32" SD crt

Until I do more upgrades, I won't be able to compare component in/out, hdmi, HD, etc...

[mistergq]

I have Verizon FiOS.
HD 100
Samsung 46 inch LCD.

Picture quality is excellent.

[mikejaner]

Verizon FIOS: 1xHD DVR, 2x HD Tuners
103 Inch Projector and Screen: Connected to SageTV Server/Client with Radeon 3450 HDMI
51 Inch Hitiachi Rear Projection: Connected to HD100
42 Inch LG LCD Panel: Connected to HD100

Just to test things related to this thread, I hooked up my Verizon HD DVR to my Hitachi Rear Pro and compared the signal to playback of my HD100/HDPVR combo with about a five second delay. I switched back and forth for both low motion, and high motion scenes during an HD program on Discovery. Just as I stated before, the visual quality is excellent. Any artifacts seen during high motion are present on both the Verizon DVR, and the HD100/HDPVR , with a very slight increase in the artifacts in the HDPVR capture. This slight increase translates to a noticeable difference in macroblocking, only if you are close to the screen. At normal viewing distance it is not noticable. To my wife, she just thought I was skipping back a few seconds, hehe.

[JimmyBalboa]

Just an FYI here to possibly help someone.

When I use Direct Show for decoding Mpeg4 the quality vastly improves over using Sage for Mpeg4 decoding.

720p seems to look better than 1080i for picture quality on my setup, but all in all it is still lacking in my opinion.

Hopefully the new firmware/drivers for the HD PVR will improve things. "When they are released."

[Eckwell]

HA! what new firmware and drivers for the HD PVR... seems like a long time since they said they would be out soon.

[jerryt]

Hauppauge is offering a new Beta to people who are beta tester the driver. Still problems with the 5.1 audio chip and sync issues.