Hardware Acceleration in SageTV w/HD-PVR

[canadaneedsmusi]

Everyone,

Thanks for your help with my issues in other topics regarding the HD-PVR. But I'm having one larger issue still that I just can't seem to fix.

I have an HD-PVR setup to my StarChoice STB. I have a new HTPC, with AMD Phenom CPU, 4GB Ram, and Gigabyte 780G MB. So this means I have a Radeon 3200 GPU that has Avivo.

When I watch TV through the Arcsoft program it works well, no stuttering, even in HD. When I watch it in SageTV I've been able to eliminate the stuttering I originally had. I was able to do this using Overlay, Arcsoft Decorder, Directshow, and defaults for audio, etc (I've never had one issue with Audio, no matter when I use for it). The issue is that on HD channels while it doesnt have stuttering it doesnt look as good as it should in SageTV. Secondly, whenever there is any movement there is a "wave" left behind (I'm not sure of the correct term).

Also, my CPU usage is an indicator of an issue. When watching the HD-PVR in Arcsoft or SageTV my usage is between about 35%-45%. This seems way too high to me, especially with with the Radeon 3200. This is about the same CPU usage with both SD and HD.

Through my research (I've been doing a lot of it over the past week or so) I found that only certain decoders will take advantage of the Avivo hardware acceleration. So I thought "A-HA!". I have PowerDVD 7.3 which came with my Blu-Ray DVD drive. I install that, go into settings, video section, make sure that "Hardware acceleration with ATI/Avivo" is checked. Go into SageTV, Settings, Video, Set the decoder to CyberLink PowerDVD (PDVD7), make sure the 3d acceleration is checked in SageTV advanced settings, go to watch TV, inSage, and.... exact same thing as with Arcsoft. Basically the same picture and with the same CPU usage.

So any suggestions? I have used FSE in Sage, made no difference. There are a few questions I have...

1) I've seen mention throughout this forum regarding people picking DXVA options in Sage, like "SageTV MPEG V.D. uses DXVA - Yes", "DXVA MPEG Mode" and "DXVA D-Interlacing", however I have never seen these options... where are they located? (Maybe I'm blind?)
2) I hear people changing things in the "sage.properties" file/folder. Where is this? The files I've found won't open for me in Vista. So either I've found the wrong files, or I don't have the right program to open them, or its because of Vista.

So what do you think? Is there someway in ATI Catalyst to turn hardware acceleration on? I've looked and looked but havent found anything. Is there something else I'm missing?

My only other ideas right now is to try Windows Media Player Classic (the new one) as a decoder as apparently it does hardware acceleration. I'm also going to try a DXVA checker I ran across to see if it can pick up if anything is using hardware acceleration or not.

Very sorry that this is so long, but I wanted to present as much info as I could so that getting to the route of the problem is easier.

Thanks VERY much for your help in advance, I can't explain how helpful everythings been on this forum.

Dave.

[Jesse]

Hi,

I wonder if the Arcsoft decoder is able to do proper video acceleration with the ATI chip? I know that in the recent past there were some issues with Arcsoft TMT and the ATI 2xxx cards. You may want to try the Arcsoft forums or maybe AVS. Just a thought.

Jesse

[HawgGuy]

Dave, your experience is identical to mine. I've been playing back h.264 streams from my r5000-hd for a year now with success using Cyberlink & ArcSoft decoders. The Cyberlink decoders give HW Accel. and a bit smoother playback in my opinion. CPU usage is around 7% with Cyberlink and around 40% with the Arcsoft decoder.

In the brief time that I had my HD-PVR (before RMA) I noted that even though the Cyberlink decoders would work to playback the TS files, there was no HW acceleration. Perhaps there is some idiosyncrasy in the way the HD-PVR files are encoded which inhibits Cyberlink's HW Acceleration

[Jesse]

Hi Dave,

Since I an using nvidia cards in my clients I thought I would check cpu usage while using the HD PVR (see my sig for details on my clients).

My old P4 client was pretty jumpy during playback and the cpu stayed pegged at 100%. No surprise there.

My 4600+ X2 client is silky smooth but runs at 65%-75% cpu. I use this machine to play BD and HDDVD and I usually see about 25%-35% cpu while doing so. I use Arcsoft Total Media Theater for BD and HDDVD and at 25%-35% cpu it sure seems that HW acceleration is working.

I am now wondering if HW acceleration is working at all in sage with H.264 or is it possible that H.264 is that much more demanding than BD or HDDVD?

Jesse

[canadaneedsmusi]

Thanks for your comments. I still havent found any kind of solution. I think what frustrates me the most is that in the Arcsoft program HD runs smoothly, and then in SageTV with the Arcsoft decoder it doesn't. But I don't want to watch TV in Arcsoft all the time! Anyway, I still havent gotten any Hardware Acceleration either.

I havent even been able to try a TS file in Cyberlink because when I do it says something about I'm using a "repeater", which apparently has something to do with running everything through a reciever which I am. So I can't try one of the HD files I recorded to see about Hardware acceleration either. Just ads to everything that's happening.

I read on Brent Evans blog about adding something to the Sage.properties file for the decoder you want to use. So I to try that, I got into the file I thought was the right file, opened it in notepad, added the part, buuuttt it wouldnt let me save it of course. It's called a "default file" in Vista, I mean the file type. So I don't really know what that means.

So today/tonight I have to figure out this Sage.Properties issue I'm having. I'll then try adding the line that is mentioned in Brent Evans blog. And I'll hope that it works.

That's the last thing I can think of trying and the last thing I've seen anywhere that people have done. If it doesn't work then I don't know what to do.

It's really dissapointing that I've been working on this every night for a week and I can't even watch the HD-PVR in SageTV, never record TV or watch DVDs; especially since I spent a lot of money on my HTPC in anticipation of the HD-PVR. If I can't get it to work soon I might just put it on the shelf or RMA it (I was getting some overheating but on its side it seems to be working), hooking back up my old tunner, and just using that in Sage or VMC (which worked RIGHT away from the beginning) until either the SageTV support is no longer beta, or someone figures something else out.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by canadaneedsmusi

I read on Brent Evans blog about adding something to the Sage.properties file for the decoder you want to use. So I to try that, I got into the file I thought was the right file, opened it in notepad, added the part, buuuttt it wouldnt let me save it of course. It's called a "default file" in Vista, I mean the file type. So I don't really know what that means.

So today/tonight I have to figure out this Sage.Properties issue I'm having. I'll then try adding the line that is mentioned in Brent Evans blog. And I'll hope that it works.

These comments make me think the following:

1. You are using VISTA.
2. You have your file extensions turned off in Explorer
3. You didn't exit Sage completely including the service when editing your properties.

The only reason I can think of that it wouldn't let you save is because SageTV was still running which could include the service mode application. Stop the service and close the SageTV GUI completely before editing the properties files. Since you say it is called a "default file" in Vista I think you have your extensions turned off in Explorer. So if that is true you don't want to edit "Sage.properties" that would actually be the file "Sage.properties.defaults". You want a file type of "Properties" and the file name would then be "Sage". The best way to ensure you get the right file however is to TURN ON file extensions in explorer so that you can see all the ".exe", ".dll", ... etc. then you can see if you have gotten Sage.properties or not. Note if you are using Service mode in SageTV then the edits would be to the "SageClient" and not to "Sage" properties file for the ArcSoft decoder entries. Also since you are apparently using Vista you might have UAC turned on. If so than you will want to edit the properties files in the Virtual Store directory (c:\Users\<username>\AppData\local\VirtualStore\program files\SageTV).

[canadaneedsmusi]

Thanks Bob!

I'm going to try everything you said tonight. Hopefully this is the silver bullet! You've given me hope!

Thanks again.

Dave.

[Jesse]

Hi,

I checked on my client and the 'video frame h264..." entry was already set for the Arcsoft decoder. I tried playing back an hddvr recording in TME and saw only 6%-10% cpu, while with sage this same recording required 65%-75% cpu.

I am definitely not getting DXVA.

Jesse

[canadaneedsmusi]

Jesse,

I think I have the exact same issue as you. I tried TME last night again, and I got anywhere from 8-13% while playing back the HD file. So I'm getting Hardware acceleration through that for sure. But no other time it seems.

Ok, so last night I decided I would re-install SageTV and do the HWClear and re-install the HD-PVR drivers, etc. So I did all of that, everything went fine. Video showed up in Arcsoft as usual, no problem there. I figured out how to change the sage properties (thanks everyone!) I added the h.264 line. I went through the process of configuring Sage... and then... live TV = no signal! Haha, holy crap, just one thing after another, lol.

Anyway, what used to happen when Video was choppy etc in Sage is that it would say "no signal" for maybe 15-30 seconds, but then begin to load the live tv and be good from then on even through changing channels, etc. But now it goes to "no signal" and never loads.

I've done a little research but havent found any that screams at me "a-ha!". I'm thinking maybe another fresh install of both? Possibly? I'm not so sure. And like I said it does work fine in Arcsoft, so there is a signal.

Anyway, the quest continues! On to day 11 of owner ship, and day 9 of actually working to set it up.

Also, because Sage isn't working I'm recording some Euro 2008 today in Arcsoft, but since I'm at working all day I have to run the recording all day. It's only SD but it will be interesting to see if it's still going strong at the end of the day.

Dave.

[Jesse]

Hi Dave,

I found some interesting stuff in the HDPVR thread in the General Discussion area. Go here and start at post #933 by Swagger200: http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...=32027&page=47

He seems to be getting DXVA just fine. I am going to uninstall the nvidia decoders and then try completely uninstalling and reinstalling sage on my client. I am then going to make sure it is using the Arcsoft decoders by unregistering the sage decoders. I will report back with my results.

Jesse

[Jesse]

Hi,

I removed the nvidia decoders and uninstalled sage from my client. I reinstalled 6.4 and unregistered the sage decoder. It seemed to make no difference, as I could still select the sage decoder and get playback of standard and hdpvr recordings. Anyway, it all made no difference. I still get no DXVA when using the Arcsoft decoders to play back hdpvr recordings with sage.

Any help appreciated.

Jesse

[BobPhoenix]

I'm only getting 2-10% on my Quad core during playback of a HD video on Sage with the ArcSoft decoders. I'm including my properties file to look at. Also only recorded TV no Live. But basically I have all my normal settings and just added the two properties:

videoframe/aac_audio_decoder_filter=ArcSoft Audio Decoder
videoframe/h264_video_decoder_filter=ArcSoft Video Decoder

Basically I have:
Video Renderer: VMR9
MPEG2 Video Decoder Filter: NVIDIA Video Decoder
MPEG4 playback: DirectShow
DScaler Deinterlacing Filter: Disabled
Audio Render: Default
MPEG2 Audio Decoder Filter: AC3Filter
Audio Playback Delay: 0
FSE: Yes
3D Acceleration: Yes

I also have a eVGA 8600GTS using the 169.21 drivers but I am including a graphic from nTune showing parameters for this too.

[CanadianEh]

Originally Posted by BobPhoenix

I'm only getting 2-10% on my Quad core during playback of a HD video on Sage with the ArcSoft decoders. I'm including my properties file to look at. Also only recorded TV no Live. But basically I have all my normal settings and just added the two properties:

videoframe/aac_audio_decoder_filter=ArcSoft Audio Decoder
videoframe/h264_video_decoder_filter=ArcSoft Video Decoder

Basically I have:
Video Renderer: VMR9
MPEG2 Video Decoder Filter: NVIDIA Video Decoder
MPEG4 playback: DirectShow
DScaler Deinterlacing Filter: Disabled
Audio Render: Default
MPEG2 Audio Decoder Filter: AC3Filter
Audio Playback Delay: 0
FSE: Yes
3D Acceleration: Yes

I also have a eVGA 8600GTS using the 169.21 drivers but I am including a graphic from nTune showing parameters for this too.

Your above settings fixed my frame-dropping video on my laptop!!!! I think it was directly related to this line, because the rest of my config was identical:

videoframe/aac_audio_decoder_filter=ArcSoft Audio Decoder

I had the above line in my sageclient.properties file, but the value was blank. Placing the value in resolved it all. I'm psyched! Now I can go rebuild my actual client machine

Thanks man!


EDIT:

For anyone interested, I'm seeing about 50% CPU usage on my laptop which is Core2Duo @ 1.6Ghz with 2GB RAM and a GeForce 7900GS graphics card.

[Jesse]

Bob,

Thanks for the help and info. I found that the prop. for the aac audio decoder was blank. Unfortuneately adding the value "ArcSoft Audio Decoder" did not help with playback. I am still not getting DXVA when playing back hdpvr recordings.

For giggles I tried playing an hdpvr recording on my old P4 based client with ArcSoft TME. I was not surprised to see smooth playback and 70%-75% cpu. This was with a P4 3.0 and a 7600GT. Obviously the ArcSoft player has no trouble providing DXVA. I dont know whether to be bummed or excited by this...

I noticed that you are using xp and I am beginning to wonder if this has something to do with vista. Maybe sage cannot get DXVA working in vista with the ArcSoft decoder. It just seems odd that the ArcSoft player can do it but sage can't.

Since switching to vista I have not needed to use FSE on either of my clients. I am thinking of giving it a try, but how will I get the task manager up to check cpu usage with FSE being used?

I guess my next move will be to compare your props file to mine line by line and see if anything jumps out.

Any suggestions would be very welcome.

Thanks.

Jesse

[Jesse]

Hi,

I tried the hdpvr recording on my P4 client using WMP and I got the same smooth playback that I got from TME. What is it about my setup that will not let sage do this?

Jesse

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Jesse

Since switching to vista I have not needed to use FSE on either of my clients. I am thinking of giving it a try, but how will I get the task manager up to check cpu usage with FSE being used?

I got my reading by RDP'ing into it from another computer and bring up TaskManager. I hope it works for Vista because I was GOING to switch but now I might just leave it WinXP MCE until someone with Vista and is getting DXVA working speaks up!

[Jesse]

Hi Bob,

I tried FSE on my old P4 client and it still skipped so there was really no need for me to try and open Task Manager. Thanks for the tip though.

The latest nVidia drivers on my main client made no difference either.

I don't know enough about all this to do more than guess, but vista and DX10 vs DX9 does have me wondering.

I am going to try the new 6.4.4 beta tonight. I am going to do a clean install (as opposed to on top of the existing install) and test with no add-ons or plug-ins. If it does not work I will enable logging and file a bug report.

Jesse

[Jesse]

Update to anyone interested.

My bug report to sage was finally answered. Their response was that the ArcSoft decoders do not support DXVA in vista using the VMR9 renderer. I wonder if this would be a problem if sage supported EVR?

FWIW, it does not appear to support DXVA in vista with overlay either. At least not on either of my machines.

I rolled back to XP on my old P4 based client and got smooth playback of HDPVR recordings (50%-60% cpu) using overlay. Even with XP I could not get DXVA with VMR9 and the ArcSoft decoders. Anyone have a guess as to why ArcSoft will only provide DXVA with overlay or EVR?

Further Update: I have tried again with VMR9/FSE along with the ArcSoft decoders and I now seem to be getting DXVA. The key thing seems to be that if sage releases FSE for any reason then the ArcSoft decoders will not provide DXVA until a complete shutdown and restart of sage.

Jesse

[davin]

Jesse, in your most recent update is that on the vista based client or on the XP one? I've got a ticket filed with Sage on this issue and it's very frustrating. I've had a HDPVR for 2 weeks and it is unusable in sage. It seems like the problem is in the encoder not deinterlacing the 1080i content correctly. Scrolling bars on ESPN/CNBC are jerky and feathered and the rest of the picture looks fuzzy and has motion artifacts. Playback in WMP or in Graphedit with the EVR renderer looks perfect (and uses HW accel with my HD3450).

[Jesse]

Hello Davin,

The last update was in regard to my XP machine. As long as sage holds on to FSE then I get very good (not quite perfect) play back of HDPVR recordings. I occasionally get a blip here or there, but considering the age and specs of the machine I am satisfied.

The vista based client is still doing all H.264 decoding in software. Well, it was until last night when sage suddenly started crashing whenever I tried to play back anything recorded with the HDPVR. Some searching leads me to believe that the problem is with the full version of Total Media Theater I have installed to play BD's and HDDVD's.

I think what it gets down to, in my case at least, is that ArcSoft will only support DXVA in vista with the EVR renderer. In XP it will support DXVA with the VMR9 renderer. Sage offers no support for EVR at this time, so it is either software decoding (if you have the horsepower) or go back to XP. It is beginning to look like the two vista licenses I bought were money wasted.

Jesse