DTS dropout

[interloper]

I should probably start this by stating how happy I am overall with the performance of my HD Extender, it has far exceeded all my expectations.

One shortcoming that I am finding is DTS passthrough. My understanding was that, while the Extender does not decode DTS, it will pass it through (presumably untouched) to a DTS enabled audio system.

However, what I've been experiencing is fairly consistent audio drops when playing videos containing DTS audio streams through the Extender. My audio receiver shows that it is receiving the DTS stream, but roughly every half-minute or so, the sound drops for a split second. I don't notice any corresponding video anomalies.

I tried searching this out on the forum before posting about it, and while I've seen some other reports of similar behaviour (so I can safely say its not just me experiencing this), I haven't seen the issue really addressed.
What I'm hoping for are any suggestions as far as possible avenues of troubleshooting this, thoughts on what could cause it, possible bottlenecks particular to my own setup that could be causing or aggravating this, etc.

My server has a gigabit connection to an unmanaged gigabit switch, and the Extender is connected directly to the same switch, though (of course) with a 100Mbit connection. My server itself is not the most powerful system out there, AMD64 3000, 1GbRAM, XP Pro, but I'm not sure that this is relevant since the processing it does when feeding the extender is minimal. I've only tested this on DTS streams of 1.5 Mbps, if this matters. I should also point out that I am using the latest non-beta firmware and Sage server software.

Anyway, I just wanted to throw this out there and see if anyone has any ideas, thoughts, etc..

[talbot3]

I have the same problem with some DTS streams. My work around has been converting the DTS to AC3. It takes about 10 minutes on my X2 5000+. Check out this link http://www.networkedmediatank.com/wi...ert_DTS_to_AC3

[Motofreak75]

what type of media stream is in the files your trying to play ?

[Taddeusz]

I believe what moto is asking is what type of container you're using? I personally have a whole bunch of DVD's with DTS audio that I've converted to MKV's with H.264 video with the original DTS audio. They all play fine without any hiccups.

I assume you've updated your HD100 to the latest firmware? What version of SageTV are you running?

[Motofreak75]

No I was asking what type of video stream is being used.

H.264,VC1,AVC or mpeg2 etc....

There is a few known issues with AVC and VC1 with dts with the STX. I have no problems at all playing 1080P H.264 with DTS.

I have a few issues with certain movies, when the video bitrate goes above above 40mbits even as low as 20mbits with a AVC & VC1 encoded movies. I get audio dropout video lag or even using the RW or FF kill the stx with these types of files.

[Taddeusz]

40Mb seems like kind of an insane bitrate. Particularly when Blu-ray tops out at 30Mb. I've had no luck getting direct BD rips to play. As you say the bitrate is just too high for it to handle. I've had to transcode them to a much lower bitrate and end up with a file size around the 5-6GB range.

[Motofreak75]

Yeah its high but Irobot peaks at 45mbits But a few movies I have that are around 15-20mbits range (Batman begins) with DTS is so bad I cant watch it on the stx.

[interloper]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

I believe what moto is asking is what type of container you're using? I personally have a whole bunch of DVD's with DTS audio that I've converted to MKV's with H.264 video with the original DTS audio. They all play fine without any hiccups.

I assume you've updated your HD100 to the latest firmware? What version of SageTV are you running?

Yes, the HD100 and my sage server are both updated to their latest software/firmware (non-beta, though I have been considering trying the beta firmware/server software)

Originally Posted by Motofreak75

No I was asking what type of video stream is being used.

H.264,VC1,AVC or mpeg2 etc....

There is a few known issues with AVC and VC1 with dts with the STX. I have no problems at all playing 1080P H.264 with DTS.

I have a few issues with certain movies, when the video bitrate goes above above 40mbits even as low as 20mbits with a AVC & VC1 encoded movies. I get audio dropout video lag or even using the RW or FF kill the stx with these types of files.

Video stream in this case is H.264, container is mkv, 24fps. I have no problem playing similar recordings with Dolby Digital audio streams, the problem seems to only happen when using DTS. Considering that, its a relatively minor complaint, but it would be nice if it worked. As I mentioned, the streams I have trouble with have been 1.5Mbps, are the ones that worked for you the same? Not really sure how relevant that is, though I see someone else posted in another thread that the 1.5Mbps streams were the ones giving him problems.

[Motofreak75]

Thats a weird one, I have no issues with a few H.264 with DTS 1536 bitrate tracks and the only thing I can think of is that its either an error with the mkv file or the bit rate goes through the roof and either the stx or hard drive can't handle the load ?

[Taddeusz]

I think I only have one DVD conversion, Twister, that has a 1.5Mb DTS track. All the other DTS movies have a much lower audio bitrate. And honestly I haven't tried to play it yet. Just in the process of converting them.

[interloper]

Originally Posted by Motofreak75

Thats a weird one, I have no issues with a few H.264 with DTS 1536 bitrate tracks and the only thing I can think of is that its either an error with the mkv file or the bit rate goes through the roof and either the stx or hard drive can't handle the load ?

I didn't really give much consideration to the problem being on my server end, because of the fact that it doesn't need to transcode anything for the stx. However, it makes sense that we also need to consider how much throughput the hard disk and the network can handle. I haven't searched specifically for this yet, but has there been any discussion of what would be considered appropriate as far as hard disk speeds, network configuration, etc, specifically as it relates to serving media to the Stx?

[Motofreak75]

try to enable to the debug logging on the server. You will see a bandwidth test done before playing every movie on the stx. If it doesn't pass, then the serrver will trans code the video.

Also look for any errors when playing the file. If not submit a bug report Support also suggested to add a line in the sage.properties file to help out, but so far this hasn't helped me.

media_server/readahead_optimized_file_extensions=mpg,mkv,ts

[classicspam]

Interesting, I finally was able to get 1080p movies working with re-running cables and upgrading to the latest beta version (6.4.4) and the only 1080p movie I had to test exhibited this very same problem (about every 30 secs. and everything). I am curious if you found any resolution to it. I am going to test more 1080p video streams in the future to try and figure out a pattern.

Current 1080p stream information:

General

Format : Matroska
File size : 12.3 GiB
Duration : 2h 48mn
Overal bit rate : 10.4 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2007-11-21 21:23:46
Writing application : mkvmerge v2.0.2 ('You're My Flame') built on Feb 21 2007 23:40:55
Writing library : libebml v0.7.7 + libmatroska v0.8.1
Cover : Yes / Yes / Yes

Video
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L5.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 8 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 2h 48mn
Bit rate : 8474 Kbps
Nominal bit rate : 8928 Kbps
Width : 1920 pixels
Height : 800 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.400
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.242
Title : x264 @ 8928kbps
Writing library : x264 core 56 svn-680
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:-4:-4 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=7 / brdo=1 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=2 / deadzone=21,11 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=3 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / mbaff=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=1 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / wpredb=1 / bime=1 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40(pre) / rc=2pass / bitrate=8928 / ratetol=1.0 / rceq='blurCplx^(1-qComp)' / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / ip_ratio=1.40 / pb_ratio=1.30 / aq=1:0.5:17.0
Language : English

Audio
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 2h 48mn
Bit rate : 1536 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Surround: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Resolution : 24 bits
Title : DTS 5.1 @ 1536kbps
Language : English

[interloper]

In my testing, I have done the following:

I updated to the latest beta firmware and server software, but this had no impact on my problem.

To try to rule out some possible physical bottlenecks, I upgraded my network cabling from Cat5 to Cat6 (already going through a gigabit switch), and swapped out my optical cable that connects the HD100 to my Denon 1804 AV receiver with a better quality one, but again there was no obvious positive effect. One physical bottleneck I have not been able to address is my server hard disk speed. It is running at SATA 1 speed, so possibly this is not enough to accomodate the higher bitrate file streaming.

To try to rule out DTS itself as an inherent problem with either the HD100 (passthrough) or my Denon receiver (decoding), I downloaded some DTS audio files at http://www.kellyindustries.com/sounds.html and tested streaming them through the HD100. These played flawlessly. I take it that this indicates that there may not be an inherent problem with DTS, but maybe something more to do with the mkv container. I really haven't done much testing or research beyond this, however a quick Google search of 'mkv dts dropout' comes back with several results regarding similar problems with other media players.

Originally Posted by classicspam

Interesting, I finally was able to get 1080p movies working with re-running cables and upgrading to the latest beta version (6.4.4) and the only 1080p movie I had to test exhibited this very same problem (about every 30 secs. and everything). I am curious if you found any resolution to it. I am going to test more 1080p video streams in the future to try and figure out a pattern.

Current 1080p stream information:

General

Format : Matroska
File size : 12.3 GiB
Duration : 2h 48mn
Overal bit rate : 10.4 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2007-11-21 21:23:46
Writing application : mkvmerge v2.0.2 ('You're My Flame') built on Feb 21 2007 23:40:55
Writing library : libebml v0.7.7 + libmatroska v0.8.1
Cover : Yes / Yes / Yes

Video
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L5.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 8 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 2h 48mn
Bit rate : 8474 Kbps
Nominal bit rate : 8928 Kbps
Width : 1920 pixels
Height : 800 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.400
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.242
Title : x264 @ 8928kbps
Writing library : x264 core 56 svn-680
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:-4:-4 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=7 / brdo=1 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=2 / deadzone=21,11 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=3 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / mbaff=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=1 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / wpredb=1 / bime=1 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40(pre) / rc=2pass / bitrate=8928 / ratetol=1.0 / rceq='blurCplx^(1-qComp)' / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / ip_ratio=1.40 / pb_ratio=1.30 / aq=1:0.5:17.0
Language : English

Audio
Format : DTS
Format/Info : Digital Theater Systems
Codec ID : A_DTS
Duration : 2h 48mn
Bit rate : 1536 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Surround: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Resolution : 24 bits
Title : DTS 5.1 @ 1536kbps
Language : English

[Taddeusz]

I suspect that it's the bitrate of the entire file not anything to do with the container. I have my own BD rips that I've done and recompressed at 1080 to about 5-6GB and they all play fine. Granted, none of them use DTS audio. But I have had problems playing higher bitrate movies in the past. Raw BD rips will not play on my HD100. I don't know if there is a bottleneck in the way the data is being sent because it's hitting my gigabit switch twice. Once coming from my storage source to the server and then from the server to my HD100.

Anything with a lower bitrate plays fine. My latest rip shows a bitrate of 6421Kbps with MediaInfo.

At least on my end it may also be a problem with Vista networking? My media shares are on my main Vista machine. Here pretty soon I'm going to build a NAS for myself using FreeNAS as the OS. Get the media share off my main machine.

[interloper]

I think I have found a resolution, of sorts, to this issue. I found these instructions in the forum for another media extender device, where people were complaining of the same symptoms of DTS drop with mkv files that I had been experiencing. Specifically, the problems were with DTS drop when playing mkv's muxed with MkVMerge.

There are 3 tools involved in this fix, each of which can readily be found via Google, if you don't already have them:
MKVExtract GUI
Delaycut
MKVMerge GUI

Step 1 - Use MKVExtract to open the mkv file. Extract the DTS stream.
Step 2 - Use Delaycut to open the DTS stream file that you extracted in step 1. Simply run the "Process" command.
Step 3 - Remux with MKVMerge, replacing the original DTS stream with the "fixed" stream you created in step 2.

This process has fixed every file that I have had problems with.

[jameswhite82]

Originally Posted by interloper

I think I have found a resolution, of sorts, to this issue. I found these instructions in the forum for another media extender device, where people were complaining of the same symptoms of DTS drop with mkv files that I had been experiencing. Specifically, the problems were with DTS drop when playing mkv's muxed with MkVMerge.

There are 3 tools involved in this fix, each of which can readily be found via Google, if you don't already have them:
MKVExtract GUI
Delaycut
MKVMerge GUI

Step 1 - Use MKVExtract to open the mkv file. Extract the DTS stream.
Step 2 - Use Delaycut to open the DTS stream file that you extracted in step 1. Simply run the "Process" command.
Step 3 - Remux with MKVMerge, replacing the original DTS stream with the "fixed" stream you created in step 2.

This process has fixed every file that I have had problems with.

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! :The fix worked for me. I almost switched back to Windows MCE because of this issue. It was not just DTS for me, some DD as well. I would have hated to have to unplug my two magical HD100s and put the noisy MCE PCs back.

I was having and issue in the bedroom where I have a Bose 321 system connected via SPDIF. All DTS files and some DD mkv files had audio drop problems. The audio would drop every 3 minutes or so for a moment. This was a major problem because the Bose receiver takes about 3 seconds to adjust back to the audio when it dropped. This was majorly annoying! The girlfriend was not impressed with the new system to say the least.

The second problem I was having is the living room. I have an Onkyo SR-605. It was hooked up via HDMI for both audio and video. It is an almost brand new receiver. It would not play mkv DTS audio files at all. The video was playing fine and audio was just silent. I changed the audio to run over SPDIF and left the video on HDMI. Problem fixed. I think my receiver may not be recognizing the track as DTS for some reason. I have tried all audio modes, Neo6, direct, etc. It works now, but I don't think I am getting full DTS. Not really sure and since it is working for audio now, I am not going to worry about it.

Now, if I could just figure out how to fix the problem with playlists not importing for my music and figure out how to fix the thumbnail slow load issue for my video files that was introduced on the new version of SageTV. I have tried every fix listed on this board for the playlist import and SageMC does not allow me to see the option that fixes it for the default skin. Once I fix these two issues I will buy myself a Hauppage HD-PVR and go full functionality with TV as well.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by jameswhite82

Now, if I could just figure out how to fix the problem with playlists not importing for my music and figure out how to fix the thumbnail slow load issue for my video files that was introduced on the new version of SageTV. I have tried every fix listed on this board for the playlist import and SageMC does not allow me to see the option that fixes it for the default skin. Once I fix these two issues I will buy myself a Hauppage HD-PVR and go full functionality with TV as well.

For the slow thumbnails load the default STV (SageTV3.xml) and go to Setup - Detailed Setup - Customize-Inactivity Timeout and OSD Autohide and change the value for User Input Timeout before loading thumbnails to 1 ms. You can only do this in the default STV-not in SageMC. Then go into the Sageclients.properties file and change the ui/default_video_icon=
to something that doesn't exist. Example from my properties file:
ui/default_dvd_icon=nothing.png
ui/default_music_icon=nothing.png
ui/default_picture_icon=nothing.png
ui/default_video_icon=nothing.png

This should improve the situation. Can't help with the playlist thing. I create the playlists in Sage.

Gerry