Just contemplating a start with SageTV

[DaveWC]

I'm in Winnipeg and I'm looking at building an HTPC and using Sage Media Extenders to get content to other TVs in my house. The HTPC will be connected to my main TV, a Panasonic TH-50PX600U. The other TVs are not HD and are used much less. I'm planning on connecting this system to Shaw Digital. Initially I'll just get the main HTPC working with the SageTV software and see how it fits. Then I'll move onto the extenders, when they're in stock.

Is there anything specific I need to ensure I get for this setup? I plan on using a couple of Hauppauge HVR-1800 tuners in the HTPC to enable me to watch & record from the Shaw box. Do I need any other equipment to control the tuners/shaw box? Like a USB-UIRT? Is that necessary for this setup? Anything else that will enable me to access the Shaw digital stations?

I also plan to put a couple of Hauppauge PVR-150 tuners in the box for the other two TVs. I'll probably need the wifi extender for the one TV and the wired extender for the other. I will be using a Radeon HD 3870 video card to connect the HTPC to my Panasonic TV.

Ideally I'd like to be able to connect the wired extender to my stereo receiver to play music. Everything I read about the Sage devices relates to video. Is it possible to do this with the extenders? The HD Media Extender seems to have audio outputs. Do the other extenders allow for this as well?

Thanks for any help you can give me.

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by DaveWC

I also plan to put a couple of Hauppauge PVR-150 tuners in the box for the other two TVs.

Just to be clear, you're not required to have a tuner for each TV. The only reason you'd need that is if you commonly have all your TVs turned on and watching different live TV channels simultaneously. But if you plan to use those other TVs only occasionally, and mostly for watching recorded content, then there's no need to add extra tuners just for them.

The best way to figure the number of tuners you need is to look at your recording schedule and find the timeslot with the most conflicts. Then add enough tuners to resolve those conflicts. Live TV, you'll probably discover, is something you won't be watching much of once you get used to Sage. (And in a pinch you can always do it the old-fashioned way, using the TV's own built-in tuner, without going through Sage.)

[DaveWC]

I had figured that out. It's quite frequent right now that all 3 TVs are in use at one time. I don't doubt that if there is a good library of recorded shows we won't necessarily be watching live TV as much so that's a good point. I assumed I'd need at least the two HVR-1800 tuners to allow me to watch a show while recording. I had also planned on a PVR-500 dual tuner rather then the two 150's to allow the other TVs to see live TV. In order for this not to be a big issue with the family it makes sense to accomodate everyone's needs. And if my wife has to be changing the source on the TV to switch to the TV's tuner sometimes & use the SageTV other times I'll hear about it. Ideally I'd like to use the SageTV interface as much as possible.

But is it possible to listen to rippped CDs on a stereo receiver with the media extenders? Everything I've read tells me I can listen to these files but through the TV. I assume I can connect the audio output of a media extender to a receiver and the video output to my TV right?

[GKusnick]

Originally Posted by DaveWC

I assume I can connect the audio output of a media extender to a receiver and the video output to my TV right?

Don't see why not. It's one more remote to fiddle with, but no reason I can think of why it wouldn't work.

[CyRex]

You may want to do some searching around the forums in regards to the WiFi media extender. I have not used them myself, so I cannot speak from experience, but I believe a number of people have had issues getting them working.

-Dan

[vividweb]

The wifi extender is hit or miss. I had it working, but just was not reliable enough to be worthwhile, so I ran a network cable to the room.

Also remember that if you want to watch any digital channels with shaw you will need a shaw box for each tuner, you should be able to get your standard package channels on any tuner, but your digital channels will have to come out of the Shaw box to the tuner. You will also need a USB-UIRT to control the shaw boxes and to receive your remote signals to control the HTPC.

Good Luck.

[Skiier__Dude]

Hi Dave,

I use the HD Media Extender and a headless HTPC to listen to tunes through two different stereos in the house. Sony makes a very inexpensive amp that you can get at FutureShop that has dual HDMI inputs and a single HDMI output with optical and coax audio inputs as well (cost was $299 including 5 cheap speakers and a subwoofer that I swapped out for better gear that I have). Consolidates both your audio and video from Sage and an optional Shaw STB and will switch between the audio and video sources.

While Sage isn't the best at sorting your tunes (Media Monkey, iTunes, WinAmp etc are better), the playback quality is excellent. Major drawback is the lack of dynamic playlists -- i.e. if you add new music, you have to manually play it, or manually create a new playlist.

I am an ExpressVu user. The one major advantage with ExpressVu is the timeshifting feature. I get channel lineups all the way from Victoria to St.Johns so there is rarely a conflict in my recording schedule as the show is likely to start several times over an evening. That way, I am able to use a single PVR-150 tuner and it has worked well for about 3 or more years.

I found that the USB-UIRT is much more reliable than the Hauppauge IR Blaster. It caused me nothing but trouble and the USB-UIRT has been very good.

Final advice is to take a look at the Harmony 880 or 890 remote. Lets you consolidate all your remotes into a single device and even control your HTPC. Single button push starts TV, Stereo, DVD, etc... and controls Sage. Increases the WAF and decreases the calls to tech support ;-)

[DaveWC]

Thanks for the tip on the Sony receiver. I'll be looking for something like that shortly. I built the HTPC and it's working great. I backed off of Vista and started over with XP and it's much easier to work with. I'm waiting for a Sage HD extender so for now I'm just running my main TV off of the HTPC. I got a USB-UIRT and it's working great. I plan to use a Harmony 550 with it when that arrives. So far it's all working fine. The only issues I'm confronting are decisions regarding which video & audio drivers to use within Sage. There doesn't seem to be any definitive answer as to which settings work best. I assume that's because everyone has different equipment. I also can't seem to get any sound out of the DVI-HDMI cable from my ATI card. The only sound I can get is from my mobo. It's weird. I disable the mobo sound, enable the ATI and nothing. It's not a big issue at this point.

[MeInMaui]

I don't know of any video cards with HDMI out that include the audio connection. From recent news, it sounds like Asus is (or soon will be) making a sound card that can add it in.

Aloha,
Mike

[DaveWC]

I thought most newer ATI cards did that. I know the 3870 is suppposed to...

HDMI Video and Audio

The ATI Radeon™ HD 3800 Series GPU further enhances the HD entertainment experience by making it easy to make the connection to a big- screen or home theater system. With built-in 5.1 surround audio (AC3) pass-through capabilities, the new GPUs and graphics cards support a single HDMI connection direct to a compatible TV or receiver. This single cable carries both the HD video and 5.1 surround audio for a clean, high definition connection. Some graphics cards will have an HDMI connector built in, while others will use a special ATI Radeon DVI-I to HDMI adapter. These options mean greater choice and flexibility for consumers when connecting to PC monitors or home theaters for maximum enjoyment of full HD 1080p content.

[MeInMaui]

Originally Posted by DaveWC

I thought most newer ATI cards did that. I know the 3870 is suppposed to...

Thanks for the info.

If you also have audio on your motherboard or another sound card, make sure you set the correct sound playback device in Control Panel >> Sounds and Multimedia.

Aloha,
Mike

[DaveWC]

Go figure. There's an adaptor in the video card box that converts DVI to HDMI. You need this to get audio from your ATI card. The manual that comes with the card is useless, says nothing specific about any part of this model #. I had a DVI - HDMI cable so I'd used that but no sound. Use the adaptor & an HDMI cable and the sound works fine. I still prefer the sound from my 5.1 receiver but it's nice to be able to use the TV speakers.

[OldPCGUY]

I do nothing with Media Extenders but I have been challenged with my NEW HTPC, SAGE TV Windows XP support and remotes.

In my application I do not use a Settop and so I have to map the digital channels I find to the known EPG channels that get downloaded through SAGE.

System Overview
------------------------------
Custom Built PC For Dual use ( A: AV Source, B: Workstation PC)
Antec Solo Quiet Case with Antac Phantom Power Supply
AMD 5800 2.8 Ghz Dual Proceesor
ASUS M2N-E Mother Board
4 Gig RAM
Samsung DVD RW Drive
2 X 500 Gig Maxtor SATA II Hard Drives (very noisy)
ATI TV Wonder 650 PCI Capture Card QAM/VSB/ & analog tuner
Hauppauge WintV 1800 QAM/VSB and analog tuner
ATI 3850 High End Graphics with DUAL DVI out.
Windows XP sp2
Sage TV 6.3
PowerDVD7
At least 7 different audio decoders
ATI Remote
Streamzap Remote
Sony Commander Remote
VIZIO 42 Inch 1080P LCD with dual HDMI inputs
YAMAHA 550 Receiver with 5.1 Digital Input

Things I have discovered
1. ATI 650 Card only supports QAM with Windows Vista. No plans to support XP. I did not find this out till too late and could not return the card. But ATI remote works with SAGE and Windows XP

2. Hauppaugge Card supports QAM tunning in XP and also works with Sage. No support for Hauppauge remote in XP.

3.Closed Caption support is a real challenge. I had analog working then digital and now analog does not work anymore. Just be aware that there is no support from Hauppauge or Sage on CC. They both just state we don't support CC even though the CC data is encoded by Hauppauge encoder and Sage has some options to support it.

4. Getting QAM and Analog tuners to work in integrated EPG Sage screen was tough to figure out.
A) First Auto Find all QAM Channels with no program guide.
B) Write down all the channels you find (ex:110-3-2) and put them in an excel spread sheet
C) Create a MAP in excel ie 110-3-2 is NBC HD
D) Now Delete QAM Source
E) Add QAM source again with digital program guide
F) Assign Channel Frequecies you found to correct digital channels
G) Turn Off all other Channels
H) Add analog source with Standard Cable Guide

This procedure prevents Digital Channel frequencies from being assigned to analog channels (ie 110-3-1 to Channel 3)

5) Purchased the Sony AX1400 Commander remote to have a unified remote for DVD, Yamaha, Vizio, PC. The remote was able to learn all the remotes except StreamZAP which I specifically purchased for Sage TV and Windows XP. I think StreamZAP is using a new 56Khz frequency. So I had to learn the ATI remote. USBIRT would have been a better option with Sony Commander.

6) Had to debug a Hard Drive Noise problem. I noticed the video playback blinking every 3 seconds and could see the hard drive light blinking every 3 seconds. With the SOLO case HDD suspension system you can install the Hard Drives up side down or right side up. I had to orrient the hard drive such that the exposed electronic side was poiting away from the Hauppauge 1800 Card. This fixed the problem. The Maxtor Drives are too noisy. Buy Seagate, WD, or Fujitsu.

7) Still trying to decide from 9 different audio decoders that show up in Sage. A few of them don't work at all and some delete the center channel (voice only) audio. I have a working 5.1 solution now by just selecting default. Motherboard has 2 audio decoders, DVD rom Drive installed 2 more, ATI Graphics Card had 2 more, and both ATI and Hauppauge had one each and Sage has a default AC3.

8) ALL HDMI cables work! Order from online source. I used New Egg for a 25 foot DVI to HDMI cable for $40. It works fine. There are cheaper sources out there if you look.

9) ATI 3850 Card sends Audio with Video to the TV over the HDMI caable and I can hear sound when I use TV sound. Unfortunately, the TV does not have a digital out for my Yamaha receiver input. I had to buy another 25 foot cable to route the digitial audio out from PC(ASUS M2N-E Digital Out) to the Yamaha. This works fine.

10) DVD play on PC with SAGE TV can get hung when using FF. I have seen this happen alot and I have to kill Sage and restart it to make it work.
This is a Sage Bug and needs to be fixed so I will post a bug report to them.

11) Some good news is that my 25 foot USB cable works. I just chainned a couple USB cables together to hook up the ATI IR receiver to the PC.

12) Sage TV cannot be relocated to the VIZIO as an extended desktop. This is a big drawback since my PC Monitor and TV have different Aspect ratios.

The last few things I am working on
A) Get CC to work on all channels
B) Get DVD Playback FF to work properly without hanging SAGE
C) Post A Channel Map for my digital channels so that no one else has to do what I had to do.

[gveres]

Originally Posted by MeInMaui

I don't know of any video cards with HDMI out that include the audio connection. From recent news, it sounds like Asus is (or soon will be) making a sound card that can add it in.

Aloha,
Mike

Check out:
http://www.pcstats.com:80/articlevie...articleID=2253

Greg

[gveres]

Originally Posted by DaveWC

I had figured that out. It's quite frequent right now that all 3 TVs are in use at one time. I don't doubt that if there is a good library of recorded shows we won't necessarily be watching live TV as much so that's a good point.

As a data point, I have had a PVR (BTV, soon to be SageTV) for about 4 years now and we never (well almost never) watch live TV anymore. it is a waste of time. Record it and watch it later without the commercials. You can get through a 60 minute show in 42 minutes. Enjoy the extra 18 minutes you get back.

Greg