DVBViewer Recorder: Network encoder

[SyrA]

..but one "special" dvbviewer plugin (vp**g) does not work... and this plugin would be the only reason for me to run this dvbviewer setup in sage, because otherwise running dvb-s directly in sage is my prefered setup, because it's simplier do setup and i get EPG data directly via dvb-s.

I have the same problem, freechannels seems to work fine, encrypted doesnt decode. If i run dvbviewer on its own, everything works as supposed to.

[Whitey]

I've done a bit more testing over the weekend with recordings and Live TV. Recordings work fine but some will only playback using TSplayer supplied with DVBViewer, even WMP won't play them. Live TV is strange, when I select a channel it takes about 2 mins before anything appears on the screen but it's timeshifted back to when the channel was first selected (-2Mins) so I have to skip forward to catch back up with "live" tv. All the recordings and channels I have tried are mpeg2 and I use the nvidia decoder.

Whitey

[SyrA]

Do you think this is because DVBViewer is "hidden" that this plugin is not working? Have your tried to run DVBViewer in debug mode to see if we can get any clues about the reasons of the plugin failure.

You're right, i did some research and it seems plugins that decode is not working properly when AV disabled, or dvbviewer i hidden. To bad.

Can you release your other version for for som testing?

I think a way to solve this would be to: Start dvbviewer, tune the channel, start recording, then perhaps it would work to minimize the program.
If you would like to maintain the service function maybe you should look into the recording service that comes along with dvbviewer, there might be some potential in there.

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Whitey

Recordings work fine but some will only playback using TSplayer supplied with DVBViewer, even WMP won't play them.

You should then try VLC to play those recordings (because WMP may use some SageTV decoders). You can submit a bug report to SageTV and send them a sample recording (be sure that the recording can be played by VLC though).

Live TV is strange, when I select a channel it takes about 2 mins before anything appears on the screen but it's timeshifted back to when the channel was first selected (-2Mins) so I have to skip forward to catch back up with "live" tv.

This seems ok to me as you have this delay the first time you start DVBViewer. Do you see the SageTV "wait" animation during this 2min wait or not (or does the screen stays black with or without the playback controls)

This is important : if you are seeing the wait animation, then this is SageTV that is somehow confused (and this can be fixed by SageTV). If you are not seeing the wait animation, then the 2min delay is really the times it takes to DVBViewer to decrypt the stream.

Regards,
Stéphane.

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by SyrA

Can you release your other version for for som testing?

I will release version 1.3 later this week with the "standalone" recorder.

I think a way to solve this would be to: Start dvbviewer, tune the channel, start recording, then perhaps it would work to minimize the program.

Eventually, I must think about it, though I don't think it is possible (especially if you have to have AV enabled this will be a very bad solution)

If you would like to maintain the service function maybe you should look into the recording service that comes along with dvbviewer, there might be some potential in there.

The DVBViewer Recording service is actually a totally different application that doesn't use DVBViewer at all... So I don't think there is any API available to control it (DVBViewer Recorder mainly use channel and timers API)

Regards,
Stéphane.

[Whitey]

Originally Posted by StephaneM

You should then try VLC to play those recordings (because WMP may use some SageTV decoders). You can submit a bug report to SageTV and send them a sample recording (be sure that the recording can be played by VLC though).
This seems ok to me as you have this delay the first time you start DVBViewer. Do you see the SageTV "wait" animation during this 2min wait or not (or does the screen stays black with or without the playback controls)

This is important : if you are seeing the wait animation, then this is SageTV that is somehow confused (and this can be fixed by SageTV). If you are not seeing the wait animation, then the 2min delay is really the times it takes to DVBViewer to decrypt the stream.

Regards,
Stéphane.

Won't sage just claim this is a problem with DVBViewer rather than their software?

While waiting for a channel to appear there is no "wait" animation but the mini epg banner does stay on the screen until the video appears. DVBViewer only takes a few seconds on the first encrypted channel, after that it pretty quick at channel changing. If this was the problem why would the video be 2 mins behind "live" Tv?

Thanks

Whitey

[krikkit]

Originally Posted by Whitey

Live TV is strange, when I select a channel it takes about 2 mins before anything appears on the screen

i also have some encrypted channels (cryptoworks) and they need a few seconds to start playing, only a few seconds longer than natively in sage...

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Whitey

Won't sage just claim this is a problem with DVBViewer rather than their software?

No. If the recording is not corrupted in any ways, SageTV will always be concerned that you can play the recording and will try to fix the issue.

While waiting for a channel to appear there is no "wait" animation but the mini epg banner does stay on the screen until the video appears.

So it seems to me that SageTV just wait for the recording to be available (I may be wrong, as this is what I see on my setup). You can enable debug logging is SageTV to see why it takes 2 min for the video to playback.

With LiveTV, SageTV will ask the network recorder to make the recording and will periodically check the file size of the recording. It is the network encoder that reports the recording file size. DVBViewer Recorder will report file size > 0 only when the recording is beyond 204800 bytes (200 KB). As soon as the recording is more than 200 KB, then SageTV should begin to play the file.

DVBViewer only takes a few seconds on the first encrypted channel, after that it pretty quick at channel changing. If this was the problem why would the video be 2 mins behind "live" Tv?

There may be an issue with the reported recording file size by the OS...

Regards,
Stéphane.

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by SyrA

You're right, i did some research and it seems plugins that decode is not working properly when AV disabled, or dvbviewer i hidden. To bad.

I just published version 1.3 that let you enable audio and video. I also added the standalone recorder that you can use instead of the service (though audio/video enabled works with the service too).

Now a few words about audio/video enabled. When enabled DVBViewer will always use a tuner (the tuner used for the first recording made through the recorder).

As a consequence:

* Channel change is faster (as DVBViewer doesn't destroy all hardware resources used)
* Memory usage is higher (20 MB during my tests)
* Some channel change will not work (especially one tuner using a CAM when you switch from one channel to another channel on the same transponder => this is because DVBViewer will actually tune two channels the one in the DVBViewer UI and another one and some CAM cannot decrypt two channels at the same time).
* The benefits (if any) of enabling audio/video only concern one tuner (the tuner used by the first recording).

So I recommend not enabling audio/video unless you have to.

Regards,
Stéphane.

[SyrA]

* Some channel change will not work (especially one tuner using a CAM when you switch from one channel to another channel on the same transponder => this is because DVBViewer will actually tune two channels the one in the DVBViewer UI and another one and some CAM cannot decrypt two channels at the same time).
* The benefits (if any) of enabling audio/video only concern one tuner (the tuner used by the first recording).

So, you're right as usual. No benifits

When recording for the first time, the recording starts, and everything works fine.
When canceling the recording everything works fine. (The channel in dvbviewer stays tuned, and recording is ended)
When issueing a second recording (on the same mux) the recording starts on the same tuner, the previous channel is still tuned. (dvbviewer using it ability to record two channels on samme mux). The decoding doesnt take place on the second recording.

Workaround would be to initiate channel tuning before issuing the record command. Or shutdown dvbviewer after the first (every) recording, wich would result in the same function.
The A/V can be disabled once the channel has been tuned. That doesnt affect the recording, or the decrypting...

I know that this kind of implementation isnt something to be proud of as a programmer , but it would enable me to use dvbviewer as a tuner solution to complement the tuners in my sagetv installation.

This issue is clearly something that the programmers of dvbviewer has implemented to prevent exactly the feature we are trying to achive here.

One thing that is very positive about your program is that it seems to be very stable. You have managed to create a very stable bridge to dvbviewer. The recording and the smi support is very nice to have.

[StephaneM]

[QUOTE=SyrA;264997]When issueing a second recording (on the same mux) the recording starts on the same tuner, the previous channel is still tuned. (dvbviewer using it ability to record two channels on samme mux). The decoding doesnt take place on the second recording.[QUOTE]I would be curious to know how this is handled when using DVBViewer as the main PVR Software (with software CAM that is). Obviously you'll have the same issue, especially with multiple tuners.

Workaround would be to initiate channel tuning before issuing the record command.

I'll make some tests. Though I doubt it will resolve all issues (whatever workaround I can come up with, it will not work with multiple tuners anyway).

This issue is clearly something that the programmers of dvbviewer has implemented to prevent exactly the feature we are trying to achive here.

I'm not sure. The issue is that DVBViewer doesn't (want to) support anything other than hardware CAM.

Regards,
Stéphane.

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by SyrA

The A/V can be disabled once the channel has been tuned. That doesnt affect the recording, or the decrypting...

Indeed, but still doesn't resolve the channel change on same transponder. Can you check that if you use the "CloseGraph" menu entry (Menu "View" -> "CloseGraph") in DVBViewer right after SageTV begin the playback it doesn't mess with the recording (that is decrypting stops as soon as you stop the graph).

If decrypting still works, then I will be able to stop the graph right after the recording has started. This will fix the issue for channels on the same transponder and will make the whole thing works even with multiple tuners.

However if decrypting stop working (as I suspect), then I will only be able to stop the graph when the recording stop. This will fix the issue for channels on the same transponders, however for multi tuner setup, this will not work (as only one graph can exist).

Regards,
Stéphane.

[Mark SS]

Don't know if this is relevant or not but one of the things I tested with DVBViewer (standalone, not via your plugin) was multiple recordings with NDSCam. Having just got NDSCam working I wanted to see if it was possible to use for my ultimate goal of having multiple tuners, all using NDSCam to decrypt.

I selected an encrypted channel and hit the record button, then selected another encrypted channel on the same transponder (as I only have 1 tuner for DVB-S at the moment) and hit record again. Both channels were successfully recorded and decrypted.

Is the mechanism I used to record different to the way your plugin does it?

[Whitey]

Done some further testing and I have noticed that a live tv buffer file has to reach 48MB before sage will start playback. This is what is causing my delay I think. Is this something you're aware of and something I could change? Am I the only person getting this problem?

Another thing I have noticed is that on some channels I don't get sound even though I get sound on the channel in DVBViewer.


Whitey

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Mark SS

I selected an encrypted channel and hit the record button, then selected another encrypted channel on the same transponder and hit record again. Both channels were successfully recorded and decrypted. Is the mechanism I used to record different to the way your plugin does it?

Yes, with version 1.2 my network recorder ask DVBViewer to make the recording without constructing the playback graph.

However the playback graph seems to be required for soft cam plugins to work. The only thing I don't know is why they need the playback graph and how long they need it (I assume they need the graph to get the PID list when the recording start but no longer need it after).

With version 1.3, the network recorder will ask DVBViewer to make the recording and allows the playback graph to be created. However when the recording stop I don't request graph destruction.

What you have done directly with DVBViewer is:

* Start a recording with a playback graph (channel is displayed in DVBViewer)
* Switch to another channel on another transponder: the previous recording still going on, the playback graph being switched to the new channel (normally the gaph is not destroyed)
* Start the recording of the new tuned channel

So you have to make this test with version 1.3 of the network recorder :

* Configure the recorder to enable audio/video
* Start the standalone recorder
* Start SageTV in windowed mode
* Start a recording in SageTV
* Switch to DVBViewer and choose to close the graph (View -> CloseGraph)
* In DVBViewer the channel should not be displayed anymore.
* Make sure that in SageTV the channel continue to be recorder and played back normally beyond the point where you choose to close the graph.
* Stop the recording in SageTV
* Start another recording in SageTV on a different channel (same transponder as the previous channel)
* Verify that the recording start normally

If this test is successful, I'll be able to issue a new version of the recorder that will do the exact same thing, and it will work as it should with one or multiple tuners.

If this test is not successful : that is recording stops after you close the graph. I'll issue a new version of the recorder that will work but only with one tuner (using a soft cam).


Regards,
Stéphane.

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Whitey

Done some further testing and I have noticed that a live tv buffer file has to reach 48MB before sage will start playback. This is what is causing my delay I think. Is this something you're aware of and something I could change?

No, for me as soon as the recording is more than 200 KB, SageTV begin playback

Please, verify what is happening in SageTV by enabling debug mode. In the SageTV logs you should clearly see SageTV asking the recording file size to the network recorder.

So you'll be able to check if my plugin correctly report the file size when it should (that is if you see in explorer the recording having 200KB, my plugin should report this size to SageTV, if not and it only report the size after it reachs 48 MB then there is a problem).

Have you by any chance changed the smart buffer feature of DVBViewer (go into DVBViewer options, then click on Recorder, check use smart buffer, and put the slider to 2MB).

Another thing I have noticed is that on some channels I don't get sound even though I get sound on the channel in DVBViewer.

With LiveTV or with a completed recordings? Have you tried to change the audio stream during playback in SageTV? Sometimes some broadcast include empty audio streams (SageTV also have some issues with audio stream selection)

Regards,
Stéphane.

[Mark SS]

Got the new version and configured with three encrypted channels on the same transponder. In taskmanager I can see DVBViewer and the recorder service are running but DVBViewer is hidden, can't switch to it. Tuned a channel in sage and get nothing, DVBViewer remains hidden, the recording file is created but remains zero bytes, nothing appears in the DVBViewer log.

Tried starting DVBViewer first, then restarting the recorder service, same happens as previously. I'll give it another try tomorrow with FTA channels first to see if the network encoder is working at all. Any other suggestions?

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Mark SS

I can see DVBViewer and the recorder service are running but DVBViewer is hidden, can't switch to it.../...Any other suggestions?

Use the StandAlone recorder (not the service). You'll find the Standalone recorder in Start Menu -> DVBViewer.

Before launching the Standalone recorder, first configure your recorder (with the DVBViewer Recorder Config utility) to not disable audio / video in DVBViewer (uncheck the 'disable audio / video checkbox"), click on the "Exit" button and start the Standalone recorder.

The Standalone recorder replace the service for testing purpose (so as DVBViewer is not hidden)

[Mark SS]

Sorry Stephane, didn't spot that.

Tried again with the standalone but same results. Nothing in the log and no picture, file size at zero. Just in case, I disable the windows firewall as that had prompted for access (which I granted). Also tried FTA channels and that didn't work either.

On the off chance I tried changing the network encoder IP address in sage.properties to 127.0.0.1 (rather than machine IP). After doing that Sage returned an error message, something like "cannot tune channel on available encoders".

[StephaneM]

Originally Posted by Mark SS

Tried again with the standalone but same results. Nothing in the log and no picture, file size at zero.

* Shut down SageTV.
* Shut down the Standalone recorder.
* Open the DVBViewer Recorder config utility
* Check the "run DVBViewer in debug mode"
* Uncheck the "disable Audio/Video in DVBViewer"
* Edit your recorder by clicking on the "Edit" button
* Change the IP Address of your recorder to 127.0.0.1 (if you change it only in SageTV it is not enough and both SageTV and recorder must be restarted)
* Save your changes : click on "Ok" in the Edit Recorder Window, then click on "Exit" in DVBViewer Recorder Config utiliy
* Start Standalone recorder
* Start SageTV

Now if you tune something into SageTV, you should see the channel being tuned in DVBViewer. If not then maybe it's because of the way you setup your channels in SageTV: if the SageTV channel number (that SageTV use to tune the channel) is not one of those available in the lineup in DVBViewer Recorder config utility => nothing will happen; the recorder will reject the tuning request (though SageTV creates the recording file. Normally my recorder delete the file created by SageTV so as DVBViewer can start the recording.)

Regards,
Stéphane.