QAM implementation and confusion

[Pretzelboy]

I've been using Sage for quite some time but, up until now, it was a simple USB-UIRT controlled satellite box to a single tuner.

I switched back to cable a couple weeks ago and I tried to get QAM set up but things didn't go well. I've never had to deal with QAM before so this is entirely new territory to me. I've read multiple threads here and the sections of the manual relating to QAM. Here are the basics of what I have and what I experienced:

Cable company service has 40+ clear QAM channels
I also have a Motorola STB decoder for the encrypted channels

The computer I'm using now has two tuner cards:

Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1600 (Tuner 1)
Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1800 (Tuner 2)

Originally I set up with the Tuner 1 being an S-Video capture card for the Motorola STB using my cable company's digital lineup for the guide.

Tuner 2 was set up with one connection for analog cable capture and one for QAM capture. I used the cable company's standard lineup for both as all the QAM on the system comes from this lineup specifically. There are approximately 70 analog channels and 40ish QAM channels.

When I set everything up I was tuning the STB correctly with UIRT but problems arose when trying to tune QAM channels. I had originally set up the QAM with an association between the QAM channel number and the actual guide channel.

Whenever a QAM channel was attempted the UIRT would send out the digital channel number. So, if I wanted to record the QAM equivalent of the local ABC affiliate (analog channel 4) and that channel was selected I would get a correct QAM tuning visually on the screen but I would also get the UIRT sending 82 0 5 off the IR and attempting to change the STB using the QAM channel number of 82-0-5.

I then discovered that any QAM channel selected would tune the QAM but then also simultaneously send out the QAM channel number through UIRT to the Motorola STB.

I've looked at Sage documentation and there only seems to be documentation regarding QAM remapping on page 158 and it is such a short comment and has no meaning to me. I'm completely new to QAM and that section doesn't actually tell someone not familiar with the deep workings of QAM how it pertains to real-life setup. It makes reference to the ch:index field but does that mean I'm supposed to go into that file and manually change it or use traditional remapping methods?

Also, what have I done wrong that the USB-UIRT thinks it should fire off channel changes for something not even related to the tuner that its been assigned to use? Should I be using the "zone" approach (I still don't get the implementation of the zone system) to the UIRT to isolate the STB channel changes to that tuner alone?

I ended up killing my attempt at QAM and went to one analog cable tuning and one S-Video capture on the cards until I could get a handle on this.

Can anyone tell me the error of my ways?

[mikejaner]

I went through the same thing you did a couple of weeks ago, and it took me an entire weekend and alot less hair to figure out what needed to be configured and how. I switched from a dual PVR 150's and HDHomeruns tuning ATSC to QAM.

First off, your major problem is probably that you selected the exact same channel lineup as what your Analog Tuners are using. If so, you need to take that config out. Keep the Analog tuners, and their lineup separate of what you will use as a lineup for the QAM tuner/s.
In my case I have Verizon Fios. The lineup I am using for my analog tuners is called Verizon Fios Digital (Herndon). There is also a basic version of the lineup called Verizon Fios Basic (Herndon). If you don't have two versions of the same lineup, try using an over the air lineup from your area. In my case the QAM channels that are in the clear are the same on both services, I selected that lineup. After you add the tuner and select that service, let it scan for availible channels. When it is done, it should put the green dot next to the ones it found in the clear.
Here is the next big part:
If the channel names are the same as the channels in your analog lineup, you have to disable the channels on the analog lineup. For example, my analog lineup has the HD version of the local stations listed in the 800's, like Fox who's station ID is WTTGDT. I have to disable WTTGDT on 801, which is the HD output on my cablebox, which I wouldn't record in SD anyways. After you do this and save the tuner settings, Done With Channel Setup, then Finish Source Setup, Then you should be able to tune to the QAM channel. It will probably be listed in your guide on the channel number the Tuner found it on, like 80-1. In my experience, leave it that way. Let me know if that helps.
The key to testing this successfully, is to disable one channel on the analog lineup which matches the station id of one found on the QAM tuner, and save the settings, then see if it worked by going to the guide and selecting the QAM station. If that works, do it with all of the others, cause you know it works.

[Pretzelboy]

Thank you for your post. I have a few issues which diverge from your setup and hopefully you might be able to point me in the right direction.

I presently need to use the 1600 for one analog tuner and the 1800 for QAM and S-video capture from my Motorola STB.

The 1800's S-video capture would need to have my cable company's digital line-up since it's the only one capable of getting all of the channels.

That would leave the QAM tuner and the 1600's analog tuner sharing an analog line-up. From what you say above that will cause problems but I don't seem to have any choice since the 1600's tuner is incapable of tuning all of the digital tier's channels.

My other issue, based on what you wrote, is that my guide doesn't actually have any QAM data at all. I would have to remap every one of my QAM channels to some form of guide data. That was why I was asking the remapping questions. When I scan I just get the 80-1 type of information with no channel ID with the exception of one channel. I'd have to remap all of these channels into the analog section of the lineup. This is where I'm getting completely over my head. If I remap then things are going to go horribly wrong with the tuning of the other device on the lineup and I have no choice but to share that lineup with one other device it would appear.

I did manage to get the USB-UIRT from sending the QAM channel number out the IR by using zone settings.

[Pretzelboy]

Well, after a bit of mucking around I finally have all three tuners operational: analog, QAM, S-Video capture.

Everything seems to be working well enough that I don't think I'll mess with anything more. I had to share a guide, as noted above, which created its own issues. I looked at the lineup and made note of all of the guide's channel names. I then manually added all of the QAM channels using the guide's channel names. It properly assigned guide data to all of the added channels. As expected, the analog channels disappeared from the guide and replaced them in the lineup with the QAM channel-numbered/Guide name-assigned entry.

I assigned merit giving QAM the first shot, the analog tuner the second shot and the STB the last. I tested by progressively tying up each tuner until I was recording on all three. I did discover if I was recording with the STB and QAM and then selected another QAM channel it would default backwards to its analog equivalent. So, that means its working exactly as it should be. It's just that my guide looks like a trainwreck because the analogs are now missing in favor of the QAM but recordable anyway. I generally don't record by guide anyhow. I generally will work off a text search so this will work just fine.

Thanks, Mike, for at least putting me in the right direction.

[mikejaner]

Glad you got it working. I hope I didn't lead you in the wrong direction, as there are many variables, and I did a brain dump as best I could. I couldn't remember if I had to ultimately do the channel remapping.

[Pretzelboy]

No, you did just fine. I did end up adding a third line-up this morning. I had run into some issues with the shared lineup. I used the line-up from a nearby town that has the same cable operator. Their channel numbering was completely different so I had to remap them completely but it looks like it's good now. I sure wish there was an easier way to get through all of this using QAM. What a pain.

Thanks for all your help.

[CollinR]

Does it still try to output IR for channel changes?

That may not effect you but anyone who has 3 cable boxes with 3 HVR18/600s will definately not like it. Or really just a PVR500 and an HVR1800.

[Pretzelboy]

No, I mentioned in my second post that setting a zone in the IR file seemed to have resolved that issue.

[CollinR]

And I took that to mean you limited it to outputting on a zone you don't use.

If you gave it zone 1 or 2 it may be firing it out the back, if you don't have emitters connected you won't know.

I would have thought you to select use tuner for channel changing rather then external device.

[Pretzelboy]

That's the part I don't get. I did select the tuner for channel changing and that's when it decided to use the IR which was completely unrelated. I decided to give it a try and constrain it to a zone and it stopped. I have one emmiter with the UIRT and then a port for a second if I wish to use a second zone. I have to explanation why that halted it.

[CollinR]

You need to submit that to support, it should not be trying to use an external tuning device when configured for internal. I'll bet they'll want a copy of your sagetv.properties file.