Sage HD-100 vs. Apple TV

[TimmyToo]

I should mention this first. My first PVR software purchase was Beyond TV. I switched to SageTV 4 weeks later. I'm running SageTV with a HD Homerun, MVP, and HD-100 Extender. For me SageTV is the best choice. Mucho love!

My concerns come from wanting to bring my 6 year old girl and my mother into using a PVR and media library. The 6 year old would be able to figure out this stuff easier than my mother. Having used the media library in SageTV with folder images still isn't giving me what I want. Hence the Apple TV.

The recent price drop on the Apple TV to $229 peaked my interest. I like how the Apple TV interface works (coverflow) and appears to quickly browse the media library. Your dvd/cd covers are big and zip around the screen. I don't own an iPod, don't use iTunes (winamp), and won't buy or rent movies from Apple. I'm still thinking about trying it myself to see if it would work, especially since Costco has the 160GB model for $299.

Before I purchase the Apple TV I should try the Sage MC skin again. I also have Vista Premium/Ultimate and may give that a try, especillay with MyMovies. The problem is that all of them use the same grid layout of your media. In the case of my six year old we always end up watching Animaniacs since it is at the top. Playing with the coverflow display on iTunes I like how you can flick your wrist and find something new vs pressing down, down, down on a remote.

I don't have any DVD ripped and stuff I have on my server is Xvid and MKV. With three Q6600 machines I could rip my DVD's to mp4 or whatever format without much effort.

What I wish I had the skill to develop is an interface like the Kaleidescape system. That looks impressive.

Anyone has suggestions before I spend hours and $$$ taking a look at this stuff?

[Madcoder]

Hi,
I would say you should try out SageMC again, based on what you have said. Everything you mentioned doing in with the Apple you could do with Sage, but better, except maybe the wrist flicking thing (and even that you could do using a Wii remote and a little tweaking, etc.).
-You can use the lock down abilities to make only certain folders, etc. available or viewable to the 6 year old, besides the parental controls.
-You can use the new custom capable interface to move main menu objects around completely (or even remove items to simplify it) using just the remove (not coding or anything, it is couch friendly even at modifying).
-You are already using Sage, so no more money just some tweaking time (which some would venture to call enjoyable hobby time).
-In a few years you have an excuse to buy more hardware when discussing it with the wife (IF you belief or buy into this whole WAF thing...don't get me started).
-You are already using Sage, so if you move to something like that you will quickly be frustrated with the lack of functionality.
-You can not just play the DVDs from AppleTV from a collection like you can from Sage
-Use Sage, you don't want your child causing you to have all scratched up DVDs which WILL happen if you don't use a collection, but I know you realized that one already.
-If you DO try out MyMovies on VMC then do yourself a favor and USE DVD Profiler (separate program). The reason is that MyMovies can import it's data, which is more than MyMovies appears to retrieve anway. Second, Sage can also import its data to the video library, so you could move between Sage and VMC at your will without spending hours putting data back in. Pay the 30 dollars and get the registered version from Day 1 because it give you higher resolution cover pictures. If you have a large video collection, then go to eBay and buy a cuecat modified bar code reader for 10 bucks. It will GREATLY increase the speed that you can scan in your DVDs if you have a large collection. Even if you don't have a large collection, buy one anyway because it is cheap and you will find fun uses for it.

[mayamaniac]

Originally Posted by TimmyToo

Having used the media library in SageTV with folder images still isn't giving me what I want. Hence the Apple TV.

How is AppleTV different in the way it stores media? If anything, I think it gives you less options than SageTV.

The recent price drop on the Apple TV to $229 peaked my interest. I like how the Apple TV interface works (coverflow) and appears to quickly browse the media library. Your dvd/cd covers are big and zip around the screen.

I can make the DVD covers as big as I want in SageTV by lowering the rows and columns settings.

Playing with the coverflow display on iTunes I like how you can flick your wrist and find something new vs pressing down, down, down on a remote.

I use the Channel Up/down buttons, it scrolls a whole page at a time, no need to repeatedly pressing ups and downs. Although not as cool as coverflow, but it works as well.

What I wish I had the skill to develop is an interface like the Kaleidescape system. That looks impressive.

I don't disagree with you here, if I have the time and skill, I would definitely learn studio and redesign the SageTV interface to my liking. SageMC is pretty good, I just despise the fact the author refused to add mouse navigations to it. I understand it's designed for remote controls, but most placeshifter users don't use remotes, and it would be nice to have one interface on all clients.

Anyone has suggestions before I spend hours and $$$ taking a look at this stuff?

If you like tinkering with gadgets, get a modded xbox and you can do this instead.

[sandor]

What i would like to see is a version of SageTV *for* AppleTV. Think about it, great media management (videos, music and pictures) through AppleTV, and (what i think) is the best PVR system in SageTV.

I doubt Apple will ever have their own PVR system, but i love the other abilities of the AppleTV...

imagine an extra "SageTV" menu item in here:




maybe something similar to the Skype AppleTV plugin??

http://share.skype.com/sites/devzone..._released.html

and a video of it in action:
http://www.brandon-holland.com/videos.html


after some more searching... apparently Myth has a plugin for AppleTV:
http://code.google.com/p/frontpython/

[dgeezer]

Originally Posted by TimmyToo

My concerns come from wanting to bring my 6 year old girl and my mother into using a PVR and media library. The 6 year old would be able to figure out this stuff easier than my mother.

My daughter is 9 now, and really likes the sagetv interface. I had been using GBpvr for the last several years. The HD100 is what got me to look at Sage again. (got one on order) I tried out the trial version and the family was hooked. Even my wife is starting to use SageTV on her own now with the SageMC interface.

I really think that given a little time both your mother and daughter will learn the Sage Interface. Your Mom may actually be more comfortable with a more list and text based system. Part of my families problem with GBpvr was that I kept trying out "enhancements and upgrades" while what they both needed was a simple, dependable and predictable interface.

[electron]

All we need is for someone to design a skin which works (and looks ) as nice as the AppleTV software. The AppleTV software (GUI) really is smooth and efficient, but the SageTV backend is better than anything out there, including AppleTV imho.

[mikejaner]

Originally Posted by electron

All we need is for someone to design a skin which works (and looks ) as nice as the AppleTV software. The AppleTV software (GUI) really is smooth and efficient, but the SageTV backend is better than anything out there, including AppleTV imho.

I think what Sandor meant, is to keep the benifits of AppleTV (Movie, TV rentals, and iTunes functionality), with the ability to bring up SageTV and view your recordings, guide, and livetv. I would love to see that happen. For only $30 more you can have what would be today's ultimate solution.

[Mitch G]

I would say the only feature missing from the HD100 is a vudu or itunes "HD" download service. It would make the HD100 the killer app, imo.

Unfortunately, the only way this would work is if Sage could establish a licensing relationship with vudu or Apple. I think vudu would be a hard sell since I think a big part of their business case is selling the hardware. And, unfortunately, Apple isn't big on cross-platform products. Although, one could argue the contrary by pointing at iTunes.

I guess a compromise would be to establish a relationship with Netflix that lets the HD100 provide access to their WatchNow service and then hope that Netflix starts providing "HD" downloads.

I hope Sage has already thought about this and is pursuing it diligently.


Mitch

[waynedunham]

You mean like this?

SageMC Netflix plugin

[dflachbart]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

SageMC is pretty good, I just despise the fact the author refused to add mouse navigations to it. I understand it's designed for remote controls, but most placeshifter users don't use remotes, and it would be nice to have one interface on all clients.

Hi mayamaniac,

I don't want to hijack this thread (so if you want to respond then please in the SageMC thread), but nowadays you can almost do anything with the mouse that you can do with the keyboard, many controls are just 'hidden' instead of offering icons dedicated for mouse usage. And if you really want full and feature rich mouse control then there's also Mike's excellent Toolbar to look at. I don't think there are many complaints about SageMC being mouse 'unfriendly' any more, a lot of users use it with a mouse.

Dirk

[Brent]

Originally Posted by flachbar

And if you really want full and feature rich mouse control then there's also Mike's excellent Toolbar to look at. I don't think there are many complaints about SageMC being mouse 'unfriendly' any more, a lot of users use it with a mouse.

And now some even use it with a touchscreen!

SageMC Mouse Control Toolbar
SageMC Touchscreen Controls

[Brent]

Originally Posted by waynedunham

You mean like this?
SageMC Netflix plugin

Unfortunately, the SageMC Netflix plugin as good as it is -doesn't allow the watch-now functionality on a HD extender or SD extender.

[jrog]

Originally Posted by mikejaner

I think what Sandor meant, is to keep the benifits of AppleTV (Movie, TV rentals, and iTunes functionality), with the ability to bring up SageTV and view your recordings, guide, and livetv. I would love to see that happen. For only $30 more you can have what would be today's ultimate solution.

My solution to this, is that I have both AppleTVs and HD-100s attached to both of my HDTVs in the house. I only have the light cable package and QAM tuning with HDHomerun, and I buy shows on iTunes that I can't get on the networks... I came to the realization that AppleTV works wonderfully with my already managed iTunes library, and SageTV can't be touched as a replacement to Tivo and DVRs in general. I tried using SageMC with my video library, and there was no way to tell what was purchased content, or not, and of course, purchased content will not play on Sage.

I'm all for consolidation, but neither AppleTV nor Sage can completely replace the other in my house, and as a result I have the best of both worlds.

[sandor]

Originally Posted by mikejaner

I think what Sandor meant, is to keep the benifits of AppleTV (Movie, TV rentals, and iTunes functionality), with the ability to bring up SageTV and view your recordings, guide, and livetv. I would love to see that happen. For only $30 more you can have what would be today's ultimate solution.

Exactly! and ALAC support for my music is still much better on AppleTV/Front Row than in Sage. But i could never ever give up Sage's DVR functionality - i am fully addicted.

[mayamaniac]

Originally Posted by flachbar

Hi mayamaniac,

I don't want to hijack this thread (so if you want to respond then please in the SageMC thread), but nowadays you can almost do anything with the mouse that you can do with the keyboard, many controls are just 'hidden' instead of offering icons dedicated for mouse usage. And if you really want full and feature rich mouse control then there's also Mike's excellent Toolbar to look at. I don't think there are many complaints about SageMC being mouse 'unfriendly' any more, a lot of users use it with a mouse.

Dirk

All I need is the BACK button. If that is enabled by default, then I might give SageMC a go again. But been using default STV for so long and seeing its improvement over the years, its hard for me to switch. And not having to deal with setting up themes or compatibility problems every time there's a new release of SageTV is a plus.

Originally Posted by mikejaner

I think what Sandor meant, is to keep the benifits of AppleTV (Movie, TV rentals, and iTunes functionality), with the ability to bring up SageTV and view your recordings, guide, and livetv. I would love to see that happen. For only $30 more you can have what would be today's ultimate solution.

How? I don't see how this can happen with the desgined limitations of both devices. There's no way to do this with existing hardware.

[Tinpanharry]

Originally Posted by sandor

What i would like to see is a version of SageTV *for* AppleTV. Think about it, great media management (videos, music and pictures) through AppleTV, and (what i think) is the best PVR system in SageTV.

I doubt Apple will ever have their own PVR system, but i love the other abilities of the AppleTV...

imagine an extra "SageTV" menu item in here:




maybe something similar to the Skype AppleTV plugin??

http://share.skype.com/sites/devzone..._released.html

and a video of it in action:
http://www.brandon-holland.com/videos.html


after some more searching... apparently Myth has a plugin for AppleTV:
http://code.google.com/p/frontpython/

I agree. The goals would be the benefits of both.

[Tinpanharry]

Originally Posted by mikejaner

I think what Sandor meant, is to keep the benifits of AppleTV (Movie, TV rentals, and iTunes functionality), with the ability to bring up SageTV and view your recordings, guide, and livetv. I would love to see that happen. For only $30 more you can have what would be today's ultimate solution.

Given the additional features that have been added to AppleTV with Plugins and hacks(Web browser, internet radio, flickr, all movie formats), adding the ability to watch live or recorded TV would be great!

And since we have a MAC version of SageTV, it shouldn't be like starting from scratch, right?

[Tinpanharry]

Originally Posted by mayamaniac

All I need is the BACK button. If that is enabled by default, then I might give SageMC a go again. But been using default STV for so long and seeing its improvement over the years, its hard for me to switch. And not having to deal with setting up themes or compatibility problems every time there's a new release of SageTV is a plus.


How? I don't see how this can happen with the desgined limitations of both devices. There's no way to do this with existing hardware.

Could Sage Mac be modified to run as a client to the Sage server? Then the user could watch live tv or recorded TV, or movies, or purchase movies, or browse the web, or listen to FM radio, or internet radio, etc.