HD Component capture with H.264 Encode

[Addict]

Originally Posted by gplasky

SageCast HDx264

Or just SageCast HD

It's not a TV Broadcast It's a SageCast HD!

Gerry

This is the winner, IMO! In fact, "SageCast" would be a great name for a series of products...

SageCast HD Recorder (the product we've just been teased with)
SageCast HD Player (the current HD extender)
SageCast Media Center (the hardware equivalent of our current server software? Hmmmmm...!)

I like the name because it's memorable. The STX HD-100 (or whatever it is) is great for a model number, but not a brandable and marketable name.

[Jesse]

Originally Posted by heffe2001

BUT, if this is the same hardware as the Hauppauge HD encoder, it's supposed to be out in a couple months, with a pricetag of around 250ish according to people who've seen it at CES...

I think it most likely is. My less <1 year was in response to this:

How long between a leak for SageTV HD Media Extender and a shipped product? ... and that was for something we have all built with off the self parts.

SageTV HD Encoder 2010

Besides, 2 mos. is less than one year.

Narflex: This is not even a little bit funny. What we need here is your best no bull estimate on this thing. If you don't have any hard dates that is ok, just give us what you know and state that it is an estimate.

Jesse

[garyellis]

I would love to call it "Now For Sale"


Gary Ellis

[jrog]

Originally Posted by MrD

I am not sure why anyone would use it for HD-DVD or Blueray for that matter. They don't do hi-res on analog outputs.

Actually, that is not true. Most all HD-DVD and Blu-ray Players output 1080i on the component video ports from HD-DVD and Blu-ray discs. They will not upconvert DVDs though on those ports. Kinda a$$backward if you ask me.

The XBOX 360, can actually put out 1080p through the component video port, although most TVs can't handle that signal. I haven't verified that this is still true with the HDMI capable XBOX using component cables. On one of my TVs, it in effect creates two images of the screen squeezed into the same screen each getting half the width.

I could see a scenario where one would want to "backup" a blu-ray movie and this would be like playing the DVD into their VCR and recording it. I think the best use of this would be recording kids videos, which ultimately get so scratched they are junk.

[Taddeusz]

Not sure about the $250 price of the Hauppauge unit but this would totally rock! This would allow me to get Cox to switch out my 2 SD STB's for HD models and be able to record the HD channels, and in HD! Being able to record the digital audio stream would also be so awesome! One thing I wish I could do with my STB's now.

[bialio]

Originally Posted by jrog

Actually, that is not true. Most all HD-DVD and Blu-ray Players output 1080i on the component video ports from HD-DVD and Blu-ray discs.

I think that on Analog outputs HD-DVD and BD down res the image to 960x540 and back up to 1920x1080 - so the image is "softer" than it would be on an HDCP protected digital output. They do this so that you can't get the full quality from an analog capture.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by bialio

I think that on Analog outputs HD-DVD and BD down res the image to 960x540 and back up to 1920x1080 - so the image is "softer" than it would be on an HDCP protected digital output. They do this so that you can't get the full quality from an analog capture.

The primary purpose of this card is to act as a tuner for HD Cable and DBS STB's, not to copy HD-DVD and BR media. There are better approaches to solving that problem.

[jdamore]

Originally Posted by bialio

I think that on Analog outputs HD-DVD and BD down res the image to 960x540 and back up to 1920x1080 - so the image is "softer" than it would be on an HDCP protected digital output. They do this so that you can't get the full quality from an analog capture.

Do any of the STBs provided from cable companies do this down converting before outputting to component?

[bialio]

There's no reason to think that they do.

[bialio]

Originally Posted by mikesm

The primary purpose of this card is to act as a tuner for HD Cable and DBS STB's, not to copy HD-DVD and BR media. There are better approaches to solving that problem.

Totally agree. I was just pointing out that the 1080i that you get from an HDM player isn't necesarilly the 1080 content on the disc. It's been mangled.

[ybrew]

I'll take 4 (or 2 dual input models).

When do I call Directv to switch out my SD receivers for HD models?

[lobosrul]

Originally Posted by bialio

I think that on Analog outputs HD-DVD and BD down res the image to 960x540 and back up to 1920x1080 - so the image is "softer" than it would be on an HDCP protected digital output. They do this so that you can't get the full quality from an analog capture.

I believe thats called the Information Constraint Token (ICT). So far it has not been used. So yes, players output via component at full 1080i/p (depending on the model). Now with something like this (sweet, sweet, awesome) hauppauge card on the market, I would expect to see it soon.

960x540 is still 1.5 times sharper than 720x480.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_Constraint_Token

[stanger89]

Originally Posted by bialio

I think that on Analog outputs HD-DVD and BD down res the image to 960x540 and back up to 1920x1080 - so the image is "softer" than it would be on an HDCP protected digital output. They do this so that you can't get the full quality from an analog capture.

Only if ICT (Image Constraint Token) is set, which so far it hasn't been.

[mikejaner]

Totally agree. I was just pointing out that the 1080i that you get from an HDM player isn't necesarilly the 1080 content on the disc. It's been mangled.

Mangled is misleading, see below...

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...&postcount=158

[briands]

Originally Posted by Narflex

I've got a question for you all....so *if* there *was* a USB device that could capture HD at 1080i and encode it into H.264 that worked with SageTV....what do you think a good name for it would be?

In purely theoretical terms would this device likely capture a digital audio stream ???

[bialio]

By mangled, I mean that you don't get the full resolution - it's been softened. 1/2 of the pixels are removed (scaled to half it size) - and then that 1/2 size image is scaled back up to 1080. I think mangled describes it well.

There is no doubt that 1080i can carry 1080p24 source without loosing anything. But on the component outputs of HDM players you are seeing only half of the pixels.

btl.

edit : you can see the effect for yourself - just take a digital photo that is less than your computer screen resolution, scale it down to 1/2 it's original size, and then scale it back up to original size.

[FMAX]

Originally Posted by autoboy

2nd vote for HD magic stick. Please no more names like the FuDRM HD SRX-2000 manumatic type R.

HD Magic Stick ok, how about -" Sage HD-Hit Stick "

Or better yet "Sage HD-USB Encoder"

Even Better "Sage - The thing you plug int the rectangular ports and hooks up to Outputs from your cable box to stream HDTV into your computer running SageTV, the best DVR software on the market, so that you can watch HDTV on multiple TV's with HD 100 Media extenders, STICK!"

I like the last one simple and self descriptive!

Since we're dreaming about this stuff, Put a IR blaster built into it with a mono jack similar to WinTV products (maybe a little longer).

It should be ready for Christmas Right!

[lobosrul]

Originally Posted by bialio

By mangled, I mean that you don't get the full resolution - it's been softened. 1/2 of the pixels are removed (scaled to half it size) - and then that 1/2 size image is scaled back up to 1080. I think mangled describes it well.

Actually, three fourths of the pixels are removed if ICT is implemented (it has NOT been yet). 960x540 =~ .5 megapixels, and 1920x1080 =~ 2 megapixels.



A bit more info on this device: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=974452

[bialio]

You are quite correct. 1/2 the resolution is 1/4 the pixels.

edit - just to keep the thread from going too far off topic - ICT is not implemented yet, so capturing full res HDM should be possible with this device. The real question is how much image quality are we loosing with the compression.

[jrog]

Originally Posted by lobosrul

if ICT is implemented (it has NOT been yet). 960x540 =~ .5 megapixels, and 1920x1080 =~ 2 megapixels.

The wikipedia entry indicates that Hollywood has agreed to not implement this until 2012, and it only exists in High Definition discs, not in Cable Boxes or Satellite Provider boxes. For the purpose of SageTV, I don't think this is something that will need to be worried about for many years, and as such is a welcomed product in the lineup. There may be a situation where certain channels could implement the ICT, such as HBO, where you wouldn't be able to record at full 1080i, but I see that as being highly unlikely.

Getting back to product topic, what codec are we talking here? H.264 Main, Simple, Advanced? Possibly a DSP solution that we can tweak the settings to our liking?