Vista Media Center Plugin

[davieboy]

Hi guys has anyone in sage considered making a plugin for the tv server that would integrate into vista media center? I would see this as being a huge plus for people with home server and would be a massive kick in the ass to microsoft

[PGPfan]

Can you elaborate any on this? We already have a version of Sage for 'home server' that is kick'in MS a$$.

-PGPfan

[davieboy]

I know u already have a version of the tv server that installs directly onto the home server. What I am suggesting is a TV Client plugin for that server that integrates into vista media center. If it had an mcml interface it would look really nice and would basically replace the microsoft tv section. I know there is a registry key that removes the standard TV section from the vista media center menu. Doing this would also make using the mce remote a lot easier too. Media center handles everything else well. With a mcml version of my movies coming soon it would really make a fine system. I also think that sage would sell a lot more licenses this way. We all know how slow microsoft is to react to the market. It should be definitely on the list for sage as far as I am concerned. Microsoft have the lovely interface and remote....sage have the brilliant tv server. Its a no brainer for microsoft customers.

[Ken C]

Originally Posted by davieboy

I know u already have a version of the tv server that installs directly onto the home server. What I am suggesting is a TV Client plugin for that server that integrates into vista media center. If it had an mcml interface it would look really nice and would basically replace the microsoft tv section. I know there is a registry key that removes the standard TV section from the vista media center menu. Doing this would also make using the mce remote a lot easier too. Media center handles everything else well. With a mcml version of my movies coming soon it would really make a fine system. I also think that sage would sell a lot more licenses this way. We all know how slow microsoft is to react to the market. It should be definitely on the list for sage as far as I am concerned. Microsoft have the lovely interface and remote....sage have the brilliant tv server. Its a no brainer for microsoft customers.

Maybe you should direct this to Microsoft ? Sounds like something they should be interested in.

[davieboy]

Originally Posted by Ken C

Maybe you should direct this to Microsoft ? Sounds like something they should be interested in.

U think microsoft are going to develop a plugin thats directly in competition against their own product?? The reason I suggested for sage to develop a plugin is simple. Its a way for them to expand their product in the marketplace where microsoft have failed. I am reading on other forums about how great the sage product is but its GUI is lacking and support for other stuff like dvds aint great. Sage are obviously primarily interested in making money by selling licences. I just see this as a way to bring their product to a wider market.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by davieboy

U think microsoft are going to develop a plugin thats directly in competition against their own product?? The reason I suggested for sage to develop a plugin is simple. Its a way for them to expand their product in the marketplace where microsoft have failed. I am reading on other forums about how great the sage product is but its GUI is lacking and support for other stuff like dvds aint great. Sage are obviously primarily interested in making money by selling licences. I just see this as a way to bring their product to a wider market.

This would be hard to do except maybe as a sage client only. The client could be integrated into vmc, but still talk to the sage server...

Functionality wise, I don't see what you get with this approach, and with sagemc, you have a pretty nice looking ui as opposed to the ugly default one.

thx
mike

[davieboy]

Originally Posted by mikesm

This would be hard to do except maybe as a sage client only. The client could be integrated into vmc, but still talk to the sage server...

Functionality wise, I don't see what you get with this approach, and with sagemc, you have a pretty nice looking ui as opposed to the ugly default one.

thx
mike

Functionality wise it would allow u to have a farm of tuners sitting in your whs while allowing you to use your vista media centers as clients to the tv server. Microsoft doesn't offer this capability. I am only talking about a tv client plugin from sage not the full experience.

[Ryokurin]

Are you talking about the iVideoSource key in the registry when you say you can disable the TV plugin? If so, it dosn't really go away, it just allows My TV to play back DVR-MS files instead of looking for a tuner. I still think that it will attempt to take ownership of any tuner in the device on startup even if this key is enabled. Unfortunately my tuner computer is not a Vista computer so I can't confirm it.

[davieboy]

what I am suggesting is that there should be no physical tuner in the client machines at all. I am suggesting a simple media center plugin that acts as a client from a sage tv server. Ideally the sage tv server should be on a windows home server machine.

in essence develop SageTV Client Version 6.3 as a "vista media center" plugin

[Crashless]

I'm not exactly sure what this buys you...

You're saying someone should develop a plugin to make a Vista Media Center PC a SageTV client...

Why not just use the Sage Client?

[wbarber69]

What I think he's trying to do here is bypass purchasing a client license by just having a "plug-in" for vmc but I don't think he understands that he will still need a license if he intends to connect to the server to pipe all his recordings, he's just figuring that since he already has a media client that he is set even though they aren't really compatible with one another

[briands]

Originally Posted by davieboy

U think microsoft are going to develop a plugin thats directly in competition against their own product?? The reason I suggested for sage to develop a plugin is simple. Its a way for them to expand their product in the marketplace where microsoft have failed. I am reading on other forums about how great the sage product is but its GUI is lacking and support for other stuff like dvds aint great. Sage are obviously primarily interested in making money by selling licences. I just see this as a way to bring their product to a wider market.

But you are suggesting that Sage develope a plugin for a product that is a direct competitor of theirs

Originally Posted by wbarber69

What I think he's trying to do here is bypass purchasing a client license by just having a "plug-in" for vmc but I don't think he understands that he will still need a license if he intends to connect to the server to pipe all his recordings, he's just figuring that since he already has a media client that he is set even though they aren't really compatible with one another

I think he is suggesting a sage client plugin (which could be licensed however sage chooses) that would incorporate into the Vista media center much like My movies application (I think, I've never used any MCE). There would be a "My TV" top menu item that would access the guide, recordings, etc of only the TV portion of Sage. All of the other content would be handled by VMC.

Seems like a neat idea to me, sell server license as well as some of the plugin licence. Once you've got them using the server, place shifter and extender as well as other non vista clients are sure to follow.

[davieboy]

Originally Posted by briands

But you are suggesting that Sage develope a plugin for a product that is a direct competitor of theirs



I think he is suggesting a sage client plugin (which could be licensed however sage chooses) that would incorporate into the Vista media center much like My movies application (I think, I've never used any MCE). There would be a "My TV" top menu item that would access the guide, recordings, etc of only the TV portion of Sage. All of the other content would be handled by VMC.

Seems like a neat idea to me, sell server license as well as some of the plugin licence. Once you've got them using the server, place shifter and extender as well as other non vista clients are sure to follow.

Finally someone that gets what I am talking about. This should be on the roadmap for sage as it would be highly profitable. (Yes I mean each plugin should be licenced) People who are in the integration business would snap this up big time as it would make for one helluva a good home system. Home automation on windows home server with sage tv server. Multiple vista media center pc's running with the sage plugin. It would make the digital home a reality. There are many peolpe who would jump on this. The reason they havent jumped on sage yet is the interface etc. The core tv functions are great. Anyway its just my 2 cents.....

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by davieboy

Finally someone that gets what I am talking about. This should be on the roadmap for sage as it would be highly profitable. (Yes I mean each plugin should be licenced) People who are in the integration business would snap this up big time as it would make for one helluva a good home system. Home automation on windows home server with sage tv server. Multiple vista media center pc's running with the sage plugin. It would make the digital home a reality. There are many peolpe who would jump on this. The reason they havent jumped on sage yet is the interface etc. The core tv functions are great. Anyway its just my 2 cents.....

This is what i meant by integrating sage client into VMC. This is pretty hard though, and again, I am not sure exactly how much this buys you, except a prettier interface. Note that Sage Client doesn't support EVR, which is the only thing VMC likes to deal with, so I think there are a lot of problems going down that route.

What exactly is it that you like from VMC that Sage with sageMC doesn't do, I agree the default UI is butt ugly, but with sageMC, the basic functionality is pretty good. Sage media center plays back music pretty well, and the DVD library is functional, though the dvdprofiler interface is pretty hard to manage compared to mymovies. Is mymovies what you are after from VMC?

Personally, I don't care for the hassles of vista, but different people like VMC for different reasons. If you could be more specific, I think the conversation would be more productive.

[davieboy]

The reason I would like tv functionality in vista media center above sage media center is because of a number of reasons in no particular order of importance.

1: home automation integration. Software i use is capable of reading status of media on vista and can for example dim lights when a movie starts. Also in the vista media interface i can control my house, lighting, heating, security and watch cameras.

2: My Movies

3: Skype plugin for media center

4: Multi room audio support

5: Sideshow

[Crashless]

Originally Posted by davieboy

The reason I would like tv functionality in vista media center above sage media center is because of a number of reasons in no particular order of importance.

1: home automation integration. Software i use is capable of reading status of media on vista and can for example dim lights when a movie starts. Also in the vista media interface i can control my house, lighting, heating, security and watch cameras.

What are you using? There is currently a Homeseer plugin for SageTV.

4: Multi room audio support

This is something I could really get behind. I was just thinking the other day how nice it would be to have some sort of zone sync functionality a la JRMC. This could be useful for more than just music. Imagine a super bowl party - syncing multiple clients around the house could be pretty cool. That, along with the ability to remotely turn on a client (like Nielm's web server can do) would be pretty nifty.

Re: Your other thoughts, My Movies - like functionality is a big request. There are a few people currently exploring options. (myself included) Skype integration would be cool, but more of a 'gee-wiz' type thing IMHO. And I don't think sideshow prevalent enough to engage more than the most bleeding-edge of us.

All interesting none the less. I guess I still don't see why VMC is so superior an interface for the client. I actually tried SageMC in my household for a while, and my wife made me turn my own STV back on and try to port stuff over that way. I suppose our needs are different.

[briands]

Originally Posted by mikesm

This is what i meant by integrating sage client into VMC. This is pretty hard though, and again, I am not sure exactly how much this buys you, except a prettier interface. Note that Sage Client doesn't support EVR, which is the only thing VMC likes to deal with, so I think there are a lot of problems going down that route.

Would a Sage plugin really be limited by the same things that limit the client today? I don't think so. I think this plug in would be a skin to the database (wiz.bin) that is the brain of sage. The playback would be through whatever engine Vista has on board. Come to think of it, with all that the webserver has exposed, there is little reason some bright developer could not do this themselves... of course, then Sage looses out on a client license sale.

Originally Posted by mikesm

What exactly is it that you like from VMC that Sage with sageMC doesn't do

Coming VERY soon - Arcsoft -

Windows Media Center Edition Plug-in
The program comes with a Windows Media Center Edition plug-in built right in! The plug-in provides a "10 foot" user experience: big buttons and compatibility with your remote control mean you can use TotalMedia Theatre to watch your HD DVD and Blu-ray movies from the comfort of your couch.

But that is the beauty of this concept... you (and more importanly SAGE) does not need to think of what each user may want today ... or tomorrow... If someone else wants to develop a VMC plug in that pulls weather reports from a satellite orbiting Jupiter, they can do it, but SAGE does not have to try to cater to them.

Originally Posted by mikesm

I agree the default UI is butt ugly, but with sageMC, the basic functionality is pretty good. Sage media center plays back music pretty well, and the DVD library is functional, though the dvdprofiler interface is pretty hard to manage compared to mymovies. Is mymovies what you are after from VMC?

Personally, I don't care for the hassles of vista, but different people like VMC for different reasons. If you could be more specific, I think the conversation would be more productive.

Disclaimer... I've NEVER used any version of MCE and I have no machines with VISTA, but this does make sense.

Let SAGE focus on TV. They are VERY good at it. Oh crap what am I saying... I'd have to buy 3 copies of vista to go with my sage client licenses.... assuming a regular client license would work.

[davieboy]

Originally Posted by briands

Would a Sage plugin really be limited by the same things that limit the client today? I don't think so. I think this plug in would be a skin to the database (wiz.bin) that is the brain of sage. The playback would be through whatever engine Vista has on board. Come to think of it, with all that the webserver has exposed, there is little reason some bright developer could not do this themselves... of course, then Sage looses out on a client license sale.



Coming VERY soon - Arcsoft -

Windows Media Center Edition Plug-in
The program comes with a Windows Media Center Edition plug-in built right in! The plug-in provides a "10 foot" user experience: big buttons and compatibility with your remote control mean you can use TotalMedia Theatre to watch your HD DVD and Blu-ray movies from the comfort of your couch.

But that is the beauty of this concept... you (and more importanly SAGE) does not need to think of what each user may want today ... or tomorrow... If someone else wants to develop a VMC plug in that pulls weather reports from a satellite orbiting Jupiter, they can do it, but SAGE does not have to try to cater to them.



Disclaimer... I've NEVER used any version of MCE and I have no machines with VISTA, but this does make sense.

Let SAGE focus on TV. They are VERY good at it. Oh crap what am I saying... I'd have to buy 3 copies of vista to go with my sage client licenses.... assuming a regular client license would work.

Bear in mind that there are a lot of people with vista media center systems that have more than 1 pc. I personally would buy prefer to spend a few extra bucks on client machines that can do it all rather than limited underpowered extender devices. Client machines will be able to support in future hd-dvd and blue ray if properly configured. Anyway I just want sage to focus on what they do best and thats TV. I just think there are a lot of people out there using media center that would rather buy into sage and have it integrated in vista media center than the other way round. P.s. sideshow is upon us. Ricavision releasing their units in feb. Pre-orders now available. Their gadgets are also online. I tested them with microsoft emulator device. Nice little things. My automation software already supports sideshow as does my multiroom audio software. No doubt there will be a sage sideshow device in future once the hardware starts to hit the market....(and yes what a wait its been)

[sandor]

personally, i would rather see Sage add functionality to SageTV versus create an add-on to Windows.

While some may be less than impressed with Sage's look, i think the point is moot. SageTV is so impressive on the use side, that i would never want anything different. My Sage Server and Client setup is spot on, and my wife loves it. Apart from Windows issues, it doesnt fail. Why would i want to get Windows even more embedded in the setup?

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by davieboy

Bear in mind that there are a lot of people with vista media center systems that have more than 1 pc. I personally would buy prefer to spend a few extra bucks on client machines that can do it all rather than limited underpowered extender devices. Client machines will be able to support in future hd-dvd and blue ray if properly configured. Anyway I just want sage to focus on what they do best and thats TV. I just think there are a lot of people out there using media center that would rather buy into sage and have it integrated in vista media center than the other way round. P.s. sideshow is upon us. Ricavision releasing their units in feb. Pre-orders now available. Their gadgets are also online. I tested them with microsoft emulator device. Nice little things. My automation software already supports sideshow as does my multiroom audio software. No doubt there will be a sage sideshow device in future once the hardware starts to hit the market....(and yes what a wait its been)

Are you crazy? Haven't you pulled out your hair trying to make HD playback work under windows? What a POS. It not just MSFT's fault, you can thank crappy drivers from ATI and Nvidia too, and Cyberlink etc... don't help much either. That "underpowered" extender should be able to play back HD flawlessly without hair pulling. How do you think STB's work? I haven't seen too many threads on how Moto and S/A boxes studder and tear and which driver versions fix which problems, etc... There is a reason why CE devices work well and windows has issues.

Client machines may be able to play back HD-DVD etc... in the future. True, after you swap out the video card, after you get the right drivers loaded. oh, the codec downsamples HD audio to SPDIF? Great.

I think there are times to use real clients and extenders, but for most folks, the extender is definitely the way to go. Sage has some teething pains here to work through, but their trajectory is right. And don't exclude the possibility of playing back HD media through the extender. We just can't talk about it here.

Sideshow is another POS looking for a problem to solve. They should work harder on making their DRM break less. I would like Sage to look prettier and have better plugin support. But that is driven by numbers, and as Sage grows more numerous in the base, it will attract more of these kinds of features, assuming the underlying architecture is extended somewhat to enable that.