Conversion to H.264

[garyellis]

Do I lose anything by converting files to H.264?

I just converted a few videos to H.264/AVC in AVI with AC3....I used a program called Super and all went very well. The videos play great through the HD extender and the files size is about 20% of what I had. So, all is good...before I go and convert lots of my files, is there any downside that I am missing?

Thanks,

Gary Ellis

[Motofreak75]

well the only down side is what setting you used, I'm in the process to, learning as I go about converting all my HD mpeg2 to H.264 and found great results. I had to play with bitrate etc.. a few times to get the picture I would like and sound without killing the quality too much.

[BobPhoenix]

Originally Posted by garyellis

Do I lose anything by converting files to H.264?

I just converted a few videos to H.264/AVC in AVI with AC3....I used a program called Super and all went very well. The videos play great through the HD extender and the files size is about 20% of what I had. So, all is good...before I go and convert lots of my files, is there any downside that I am missing?

Thanks,

Gary Ellis

Any time you convert a recording from one format to another (MPG to H.264 for instance) there will be quality loss. However don't let that stop you. Many people say they can't tell the difference. I would just watch both versions and see if you can tell the difference. If not then delete the original. After doing a few you should have an idea if converting your videos will work for you.

[garyellis]

After a few..the video looks good and the speaking sound is good...the music at the start of the tv shows I converted sound a little "sluggish"...

So, I'll do a few more and see..

Thanks,

Gary Ellis

[jphipps]

I have evolved through all of the different formats testing DIVX/XVID/H264/MPEG2, and after a few years, I have just settled on keeping everything in MPEG2 format. I found the DIVX and XVID on certain movies have alot of artifacts, but did have a great size savings and look pretty good for certain types of movies. I experimented with H264, but did not really find much space savings and still had some artifacts in certain movies. I found the amount of time I saved by just using the raw mpeg2 format and not spending hours converting for a little space savings, worth the cost of some addition storage. I do convert some movies that I don't care for that much to DIVX/XVID to save space and figure I can always pull out the DVD if I need to see it in better quality...

[sandor]

re: sluggish-ness

i have been converting my recordings to "AppleTV Widescreen" this is a slightly less than HD (940 horizontal resolution) h.264 encoding, and i have noticed sluggish starts, and poor performance fast forwarding and rewinding *only* in SageTV. It is definitely *not* a show stopper, but i think it is something to do with the media player and not your encodings (unless they are sluggish in *every* player you try.

My encodings are fine on Macs, and iPods, and AppleTVs, and VLC just not in Sage itself.

[phelme]

Does anyone know why the current (6.3.10) SageTV player balks a bit when starting an AppleTV H.264 profiled conversion but other players don't? It also makes REW/FF scanning under SageMC a bit of a chore.

[Taddeusz]

What container are you using on these "sluggish" files? You should not be using AVI for H.264. I really don't know the technical reasons why it matters since it's only a container but it's my understanding that AVI cannot support the more advanced features of H.264 such as Pyramidal B frames and such. For H.264 you should be using either MP4 (which does not support AC3 or DTS for audio) or MKV.

I am personally using MKV for my video conversions. The only thing lacking in MKV support in SageTV so far is support for multiple sound tracks and soft subtitles. Those are supposedly being worked on for a future release but I as with anything from Frey they don't give any indication of priority for adding it. Hopefully it won't be too long.

To retell my own experiences. When I began converting my movies I was using H.264 in an AVI container. I began to notice that the video playback was choppy. Not that bad but still noticeable. Around the same time I began to play around with tweaking the settings for my videos. All of a sudden my videos weren't playable or played very choppy on my HD Extender. I had read somewhere that AVI shouldn't be used for H.264 so I took the plunge and tried MKV. Save video and everything and all of a sudden the HD Extender was playing it smooth as silk. I've been using MKV ever since.

[phelme]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

What container are you using on these "sluggish" files?

I'm using what the SageTV gives me for an AppleTV profile: .mp4.

I've been happy enough with this, but just yesterday I ran an HBO-screened version of Superman Returns through AppleTV-Wide and there was very noticeable pixelation through some of the ice scenes. Never really noticed anything like that before. I'll run the same MPEG2 original through EvilPenguin's Video Tools and see what happens. I generally like EP's Video Tools quality better (it uses mencoder & Handbrake), but it takes forever because there are 2 passes for encoding.

[Taddeusz]

Yea, 2-pass doesn't necessarily mean better quality. I use AutoMKV for my conversion. I convert my videos anamorphically using the same resolution as the source. I don't crop, I'm kind of a purist in that way. I use the original AC3 or DTS audio.

I started out compressing my videos 2-pass at 2000k/s which gave me movies at about 1GB/hr. I eventually decided this was too large and started playing around. Now I'm using constant quality mode with about 23 for the quality setting. It just depends on how large the final file comes out but I try to shoot for around 800MB for a 90min movie. The quality isn't perfect but it's decent.

[ONLYinHD]

Always remember to view your test recordings on the same tv you'll be using and with the same equipment (HD100 or MVP or pc with Sage client). I've been experimenting a bit with compression of my DVD collection (just 140 or so) and I haven't hit on an acceptable solution. Most of the time a test looks great on the encoding machine but quality is too low when viewed as intended on my 720p projector thrown out to a 92" screen. YMMV.

I'll try AutoMKV to see if that improves things but barring some revolutionary improvement I'm sticking with just straight copy of VOB structure onto my external HDs.

I don't really care about menus but color banding and pizelization (and sometimes audio sync problems that crop up in the middle of a recording???) just drive me mad. I know, I know, I'm just too picky.

[phelme]

does anyone know if the 6.4.x beta addresses any of the issues of H.264 playback from an MP4 container on a client? The AppleTV conversion format is quite handy, but the pixelation issues on initial playback and with FF/REW make me pause from doing any more conversions using Sage's built-in transcoder until it's addressed.

[sandor]

Originally Posted by phelme

does anyone know if the 6.4.x beta addresses any of the issues of H.264 playback from an MP4 container on a client? The AppleTV conversion format is quite handy, but the pixelation issues on initial playback and with FF/REW make me pause from doing any more conversions using Sage's built-in transcoder until it's addressed.

its still there, but i do believe it is a playback issue within SageTV, not an encoding issue. my MP4 files encoded through SageTV play perfectly via QuickTime, VLC or on my wife's iphone - it is just on Sage that the issues exist.

[phelme]

Originally Posted by sandor

its still there, but i do believe it is a playback issue within SageTV, not an encoding issue. my MP4 files encoded through SageTV play perfectly via QuickTime, VLC or on my wife's iphone - it is just on Sage that the issues exist.

oh yes, I do believe it's mainly a playback issue with Sage, as I've also experienced correct playback with other players. I just meant why would I keep encoding things H.264/MP4 with Sage's transcoder if my main player (Sage) wasn't working er, the way I'd like.

I was hoping with the H.264, HD-PVR support in 6.4.x that this would be fixed as well. Though I guess the container is different (transport stream?) for the Hauppauge device?

[deadend5001]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

What container are you using on these "sluggish" files? You should not be using AVI for H.264. I really don't know the technical reasons why it matters since it's only a container but it's my understanding that AVI cannot support the more advanced features of H.264 such as Pyramidal B frames and such. For H.264 you should be using either MP4 (which does not support AC3 or DTS for audio) or MKV.

I am personally using MKV for my video conversions. The only thing lacking in MKV support in SageTV so far is support for multiple sound tracks and soft subtitles. Those are supposedly being worked on for a future release but I as with anything from Frey they don't give any indication of priority for adding it. Hopefully it won't be too long.

To retell my own experiences. When I began converting my movies I was using H.264 in an AVI container. I began to notice that the video playback was choppy. Not that bad but still noticeable. Around the same time I began to play around with tweaking the settings for my videos. All of a sudden my videos weren't playable or played very choppy on my HD Extender. I had read somewhere that AVI shouldn't be used for H.264 so I took the plunge and tried MKV. Save video and everything and all of a sudden the HD Extender was playing it smooth as silk. I've been using MKV ever since.

I took your advice and started down the road of MKV when I ordered my HD100's. They came in yesterday and won't play MKV's. I tried untouched audio streams with H.264, as well as ACC. The HD100 seems like it will only play H.264 files if they are in AVI format. I don't get it...

[Taddeusz]

Strange... all my files play just fine. In fact, lately I've been making some conversions from Blu-ray to MKV that also play just fine. Granted, I have to transcode them because the HD100 can't handle the bitrate of the Blu-ray video, plus they're kind of inconvenient to store that way.

What program are you using to convert? What H.264 profile are you using? Currently I'm using the Main Profile for DVD's and Advanced Profile for my BD converts.

[deadend5001]

Originally Posted by Taddeusz

Strange... all my files play just fine. In fact, lately I've been making some conversions from Blu-ray to MKV that also play just fine. Granted, I have to transcode them because the HD100 can't handle the bitrate of the Blu-ray video, plus they're kind of inconvenient to store that way.

What program are you using to convert? What H.264 profile are you using? Currently I'm using the Main Profile for DVD's and Advanced Profile for my BD converts.

I am using DVDFab (I like it because it's easy and it automatically selects the mainmovie). The profile is "Matroska" H.264, 704x388@24fps, AC3@48kHz 5.1 format. The container is MKV.

What program are you using now-a-days.

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by deadend5001

I am using DVDFab (I like it because it's easy and it automatically selects the mainmovie). The profile is "Matroska" H.264, 704x388@24fps, AC3@48kHz 5.1 format. The container is MKV.

What program are you using now-a-days.

I'm still using AutoMKV for my DVD conversions. I've started to use MeGUI for my BD converts. I'd like to use it for DVD's but I can't seem to get it to do the anamorphic conversion properly. Works great for square pixel HD stuff though.

When I say profile I mean the H.264 profile. It defines the features used by the encoder to create the H.264 video. You can find more information, probably more information than you'll ever need to know, on the Wikipedia page. Basically not all decoders like some of the more advanced features of H.264. Although as long as I keep my videos in an MKV container they play fine from both SageTV and my HD100. Neither one seems to have any problems with either the Main profile files I create with AutoMKV nor the Advanced profile from MeGUI.

Oh, one thing you do want to do is make sure your media import directories are specified as as UNC paths. Meaning you'll have to set them up as network shares and then point SageTV's media imports to the shares in the form of \\computer\media. I don't fully understand the reason but I was having problems playing back media files when they were specified as local drives. I also know other people have had the same problem.

My only suggestion is to play around. H.264 should not be used with an AVI container. For whatever reason it won't support the more advanced features of H.264. I ended up getting really choppy video when I was using AVI. Switching to MKV gave my silky smooth playback.

[m0ng00se30]

Handbrake for windows has come a long way lately. I've used automkv and liked it... lots of options!! Handbrake pretty simple, only issue is they don't seem to be able to put subtitles in the mkv yet. I've gotten some of the best looking video from handbreak and the "film" setting (its just a constant rate encode) and it seems to play well in my sage install. i'm sure result will vary tho.

--Mike

[Taddeusz]

Originally Posted by m0ng00se30

Handbrake for windows has come a long way lately. I've used automkv and liked it... lots of options!! Handbrake pretty simple, only issue is they don't seem to be able to put subtitles in the mkv yet. I've gotten some of the best looking video from handbreak and the "film" setting (its just a constant rate encode) and it seems to play well in my sage install. i'm sure result will vary tho.

--Mike

Subtitles can be put into MKV just fine. It's just that SageTV doesn't support them yet.

Handbrake is a little problematic for creating MKV videos as it does not add the proper cue table to the file and as a result you can't fastforward or rewind the videos unless you run them through MKVMerge first.