SageTV and Networking

[jvonbokel]

I'm currently a Snapstream BeyondTV user, but recently heard of SageTV, and I'm very curious as to the extent of the networking features. In what way can two networked SageTV machines interact? Could they communicate to resolve conflicts, or is it simply a client/server situation, where each are able to access the others' content via a familiar interface? Are there other possibilities?

Also, there's a problem I have with BTV that I wonder about with SageTV. I have digital cable, but the first 99 channels are broadcast in analog. I'd like to be able to record anything on channel 1-99 via the coax input, and only use the cable box for 100+, so that in case someone walks in and starts watching TV (other people in the house are all but oblivious to the HTPC), it will have only a slim chance of ruining my recordings. Is that something that could be possible with SageTV?

Lastly, are there any other major differences between SageTV and BeyondTV? Who else has used both?

[pawn]

I'm currently a Snapstream BeyondTV user, but recently heard of SageTV, and I'm very curious as to the extent of the networking features. In what way can two networked SageTV machines interact? Could they communicate to resolve conflicts, or is it simply a client/server situation, where each are able to access the others' content via a familiar interface? Are there other possibilities?


The client has all the features of the main application, except the setup procedures. This includes accessing live TV and recorded content on the server, scheduling programs, etc. Unless you have another tuner + SageRecorder on the client, the Server cannot access the client at all (it's one way).

What do you mean by "communicate to resolve conflicts"? The client can resolve scheduled programming conflicts. If you mean when two machines try to watch live TV on the same tuner, no: the first one to access it gets control of it.


Also, there's a problem I have with BTV that I wonder about with SageTV. I have digital cable, but the first 99 channels are broadcast in analog. I'd like to be able to record anything on channel 1-99 via the coax input, and only use the cable box for 100+, so that in case someone walks in and starts watching TV (other people in the house are all but oblivious to the HTPC), it will have only a slim chance of ruining my recordings. Is that something that could be possible with SageTV?


Why not? Just keep your cable box on separate inputs on the TV set than your HTPC. Better yet, split the cable box output between the television and you HTPC.

[/B]
Lastly, are there any other major differences between SageTV and BeyondTV? Who else has used both? [/B]

I have never used BTV, but the biggest difference for me that stops me from even trying it is the lack of multiple tuners. The biggest thing (I guess) that stops BTV users from trying SageTV is the hardware encoder only requirement.

[gplasky]

I'll take a stab.
It is a client/server setup. But Sage client on a couple machines interact with the server. The server would handle the scheduling conflict. Running the client gives you almost the same look and functionality that you have at the server. In this case all media storage is handled by the server.

Sage is in a unique position because it can support multiple tuners in the server. I have 2 tuners. One tuner is connected to analog. The 2nd tuner is connected to digital box. Both channel listings appear in one cohesive guide. If a recording is being done on the analog channel I can watch something live on the digital channel. Even if both tuners are recording something I can always watch something that was already recorded.

Multi-tuner support and picture quality remains the difference with Sage having, what I feel a better picture. Each program have settings and different decoders and for the most part should have about the same picture. Most are of the opinion that Sage has the edge in picture quality.

Gerry

[jvonbokel]

pawn, I should have been a little more clear. When I was referring to scheduling conflicts across the network, I meant if you would have 2 "servers", or two computers with their own dedicated encoders. It sounds like that's not really an option, but the even better solution would be to put the two tuners in the same PC and just make that the server.

gplasky, thanks, that sounds like it would be what I'd want, with 2 tuners in one box, I could set up one for digital and one for analog. Could you elaborate a little on how you have the listings combined?

Lastly, I don't see how recording quality could be differ between Sage and BTV if you're using the same encoder. I could understand if you were using BTV with a software encoder though. Same goes for decoding, it depends on the codec used. You could compare the Sage codec to the BTV codec, but it seems most people use 3rd party decoders provided by their graphics cards.

[jvonbokel]

I think I may have just figured out what you mean by a cohesive guide, but I'm not sure if it fits my situation. I get channels 1-99 on both analog and digital. I'd like the default to be analog, so that it doesn't interfere with anybody sitting there watching digital and being unaware of the PC recording (thus changing the channel without its knowledge and getting a bad recording). However, if there's 2 recordings scheduled for channels 1-99 at the same time, I'd like them both to be recorded. Is that possible?

[EJDeHaemer]

With a single PVR-250 card you can use both the Coax input and the S-video input to record shows. SageTV has a setup wizard to help you configure your tuners. In my case I have a PVR-250 and a MyHD-100 (unsupported in sage).
On the first pass, I selected the PVR-250 and assigned 'Analog Cable - Extended Basic' to the Coax input. The next step allows you to disable the channels you didn't purchase (like HBO, SHO, etc.)
I then selected the PVR-250 a second time and assigned 'Digital Cable - Extended Basic ' to the S-video input. I then disabled the Analog channels from the S-video input so that this source would only record digital content. You will then need an IR transmitter, like the USB-UIRT, to control you cable box.

I have the Coax connection going to the tv, computer, and the cable box. So if Sage is recording an analog station you could change channels on the TV or Cable box without messing it up. If sage is recording a digital station then you could still change channels on the TV but you would cause problems if you change the Cable box.

[batorok]

Originally posted by jvonbokel
pawn, I should have been a little more clear. When I was referring to scheduling conflicts across the network, I meant if you would have 2 "servers", or two computers with their own dedicated encoders. It sounds like that's not really an option, but the even better solution would be to put the two tuners in the same PC and just make that the server.

Lastly, I don't see how recording quality could be differ between Sage and BTV if you're using the same encoder. I could understand if you were using BTV with a software encoder though. Same goes for decoding, it depends on the codec used. You could compare the Sage codec to the BTV codec, but it seems most people use 3rd party decoders provided by their graphics cards.

1) you definitely can have an encoder in two or more boxes if you wanted it that way, usually one is the server and one acts as a recording slave. I haven't done this myself but several people on the forum have, and this was demoed at CES, where they had three encoders in the main box and two on another pc, all recording different stuff...

2) There is a reason for the picture quality difference between snapstream and sage, check out the interview on www.htpcnews.com for the technical reasons for it, I don't understand it but I can verify the difference is significant for me.

[jvonbokel]

Thanks EJDeHaemer, that sounds like exactly what I needed to hear. Unfortunately in my case, the TV is a projector, with no tuner, so if anybody walks in to watch TV, they'll be using the cable box no matter what, but atleast I can avoid problems when recording channels 1-99.

[pawn]

Originally posted by jvonbokel
Thanks EJDeHaemer, that sounds like exactly what I needed to hear. Unfortunately in my case, the TV is a projector, with no tuner, so if anybody walks in to watch TV, they'll be using the cable box no matter what, but atleast I can avoid problems when recording channels 1-99.

You definitely can. WIth SageTV, you can just deselect whatever channels you don't want it to control or watch.

BTW: the client downloads the guide from the server, so it's the same guide, same recorded content, same tuners, same everything.

[gplasky]

That's correct. All my channels appear in one guide. I have mine set analog 1-72. The digital cable box set for 125 and up. When I go to my guide I just go and pick what I want to watch. I don't need to worry about what tuner, is it digital or analog, I just pick it. Sage TV knows when I pick the digital channel that my digital cable box is set on the second tuner and uses it. When I pick an analog channel it knows it's the first tuner and uses it.
You can use the Sage Recorder program and setup another PC on your network with a tuner card in it and with the Sage Recorder program, your Sage server sees it as another tuner. Now your server treats is as having 3 tuners in it. All mostly tranparent to the user. Hope this helps.

Gerry

[Cayars]

Originally posted by jvonbokel
I'm currently a Snapstream BeyondTV user, but recently heard of SageTV, and I'm very curious as to the extent of the networking features. In what way can two networked SageTV machines interact? Could they communicate to resolve conflicts, or is it simply a client/server situation, where each are able to access the others' content via a familiar interface? Are there other possibilities?

As a BTV & SageTV user I think I can give you the scoop.
Geared towards the BTV User:
2 (or more) SageTV Computers can essentially act as one recording machine. They can infact "talk" to resolve conflicts as long as you have multiple tuner cards. They can all record to the same "libraries" and can all access the same "libraries" for playback.

The trick to SageTV from a BTV user standpoint is picking the "correct" Sage software. You'll need one copy of SageTV. One copy of Sage Client for each and every computer (other then the SageTV-main) that will do playback to computer monitor or TV. You'll also need a copy of Sage Recorder for each computer other then the main SageTV computer (even if it has Sage Client) that will "host" a tuner card. If you can put all your tuner cards in the SageTV box then you won't need any copies of Sage Recorder.

Also, there's a problem I have with BTV that I wonder about with SageTV. I have digital cable, but the first 99 channels are broadcast in analog. I'd like to be able to record anything on channel 1-99 via the coax input, and only use the cable box for 100+, so that in case someone walks in and starts watching TV (other people in the house are all but oblivious to the HTPC), it will have only a slim chance of ruining my recordings. Is that something that could be possible with SageTV?

Yep, unlike BTV this is easy to do in SageTV (one of it's strong points). You can setup seperate lineups (EPGs) for each input (or each tuner). In your case, Analog going into Coax and Cable Box going into S-Video/Sound Card. Make sure you have a cable box with S-Video output.

Lastly, are there any other major differences between SageTV and BeyondTV? Who else has used both?

I have and do use both. I typically use BTV more for the graphical interface (Kids and Wife) but use Sage TV on "other" network computers to records lots of shows

Sage TV interface will take a little getting used to coming from BTV. Sage TV doesn't have the "bells and whistles" that BTV has like ShowSqueeze, SmartChapters, Web Server, etc..., but what it does have is a well thought out CORE recording engine second to none and I mean none!

Coming from a BTV perspective your main things to watch are the storage issues when using Live TV (search on Live TV).

Hope this is a help,
Carlo

[DougTea]

Speaking of Networking and Sage, is it possible to have my raid array in one machine and my (2) pvr-250s in another machine such as - write all it's data/recordings to a network location?

Doug

[ErsatzTom]

Yes but people have problems with this when the network mount drops. If this happens, Sage will assume you have deleted all the recordings on remote drives and delete the epg data. When it comes back, the recordings will not be available in Sage.

t

[Ralphjb]

Originally posted by DougTea
Speaking of Networking and Sage, is it possible to have my raid array in one machine and my (2) pvr-250s in another machine such as - write all it's data/recordings to a network location?

Doug

Absolutely. With my own setup, I have 3 computers on the Media Network. One computer runs SageTV and has a single PVR250 card, the Second runs SageRecorder and SageClient and has a single PVR250 and the third is simply an old P2 with with hard drives. All programming is recorded to the old P2 over the network connection - to excellent effect.