Minimum hardware requirements for 1080i HDTV

[Shield]

I'd like to get a general consensus on what people think a fast enough video card / cpu / memory (leaving decoders, filters, sage and OS out of the equation) to playback stutter-free HD.

I had an AMD 4400+ with 2GB of ram + 8600GT. After some tweaking, I only had minor stutter with 1080P content. 720p/1080i was pretty good.

Last week the motherboard basically died. I pulled pieces out of another system - do you think this will be enough?

Intel D 950 3.4 Dual Core (Note: Not "Core Duo", but the Hyperthreaded older Prelser chip), 1.5 GB ram, same 8600GT card.

Thoughts? If I should get a new mobo + cpu (core duo) now's the time to speak your piece!

Thanks,
Shawn

[malore]

I would think that would be sufficient, people have done it with less powerful systems, including myself.

[Shield]

You've gotten smooth 1080i with lesser hardware? I'm not just talking about 720p. What were you using if you don't mind?
Shawn

[fyodor]

It all depends on codecs, drivers, etc. Even very powerful systems sometimes have stuttering issues. Rather than getting new hardware, I'd strongly recommend waiting till november and getting one of the new HD extenders for playback.

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by Shield

I'd like to get a general consensus on what people think a fast enough video card / cpu / memory (leaving decoders, filters, sage and OS out of the equation) to playback stutter-free HD.

I had an AMD 4400+ with 2GB of ram + 8600GT. After some tweaking, I only had minor stutter with 1080P content. 720p/1080i was pretty good.

Last week the motherboard basically died. I pulled pieces out of another system - do you think this will be enough?

Intel D 950 3.4 Dual Core (Note: Not "Core Duo", but the Hyperthreaded older Prelser chip), 1.5 GB ram, same 8600GT card.

Thoughts? If I should get a new mobo + cpu (core duo) now's the time to speak your piece!

Thanks,
Shawn

I think the extra money spent on the core duo will be well worth it. I agree with malore that your selection should work for 1080i de-interlacing, though I have to say I prefer the ATI 2600pro for that. I have one running on an AMD opteron 165 system and it works very well (with some modified cat 7.7 drivers out there).

But I would go with the core duo because the heat generated will be less which means a cooler quieter system. Also the motherboard that supports it will likely be able to handle the next generation of core processors, which gives you some futureproofing. I don't know about you, but it seems like every 6 months I am upgrading a system, and moving systems around. So while your config might be fine for a sage client, when you replace it (because someone finally enables truehd audio out via HDMI as an example), it will be more useful doing something else in the home and have a longer lifespan because of it.

Also, depending on the cost of energy in your area and if you leave it on all the time, the energy cost savings may make the core duo cheaper.

Anyways, this is an expensive hobby, so I think you shouldn't scrimp on a basic component like this. I think you'll be happier in the long run. If you want a cheaper Intel CPU, I would not use the pressler, but the E2140 which is a core duo family CPU with less cache. Fry's had it earlier this week along with a motherboard for $79. I can't imagine you getting a pressler combo for less than that. And the E2140 and E2160's overclock like crazy - it's pretty easy to get 60-70% overclocks on these guys with stock cooling.


Thanks,
Mike

[malore]

Your video card should be doing all the video decoding so the CPU shouldn't really matter.

I have a 2.4 Ghz P4 with 512 MB RAM with a GeForce 6200 which I have connected via DVI-to-HDMI cable to a 42" 720P Plasma HDTV. I'm using the nvidia purevideo decoders (223) with VMR9 and FSE. I have the 92.91 beta drivers installed.

Using software decoding my CPU maxes out playing 1080i material and is pretty unwatchable. Using hardware decoding with nvida purevideo decoders, the CPU usage is only like 40%. But, out of the box 1080i material was head ache inducingly jerky. Using Fraps I discovered I was only get 50 fps, but with a little overclocking I was able to get a fairly steady 60 fps with occasional dips. Unless I sit and stare I don't notice any problems.

[davephan]

How much money do you want to spend?

Choosing a mobo took me quite awhile. There are almost always people who review mobos who find problems with different mobos. I selected the Abit IP35 Pro mobo, since it had the right features and fewest people who had problems. Many of the new mobos have 24-pin power connectors on them. Some will run with the older 20-pin power supplies. The Abit IP35 Pro says it will run on a 20-pin power supply. You will need to replace the video card too if the old AGP video card, since the new mobos use PCI express. The memory is different too.

So replacing a mobo may require changing the mobo, memory, CPU, video card, and power supply.

If you have more than one computer, it would be a good idea to have two computers that use the same mobo, if you can afford it -- that way when the mobo dies again, you can recover either computer. I had different mobos on my computers, and I could not recover from an image when my old mobo died. If I would have had a duplicate mobo, I could have recovered and transitioned to the new hardware easier with less downtime. I got the full tower case so that I can expand up to 11 hard drives in the future.

If you can afford it, I would recommend the Intel E6850 dual core. The stock clock speed is 3.0 gig with a 1300 meg fsb. It costs just under $300. Some people have overclocked it to about 4.0 gigs with liquid or phase cooling. The 3.0 gig stock quad cores are still about $1300, which is quite a bit to spend on a CPU.

If you spend a bit more on hardware, it will probably last longer before it becomes too weak to run more demanding application and operating system loads.

I do not have HD yet, but when I get HD in a year or so, my computer should be ready for the task. I can easily do many tasks at once, such as transcoding Mpeg2 to Xvid AVI while watch a different AVI with my MVP, without stuttering. I could never do any other task while watching an AVI file with my MVP with my old XP 2800+ system. It is nice to have extra capacity, instead of not enough capacity!


Dave

[bialio]

I have a Core 2 Duo E4400 in my full client and it handles HD flawlessly.

So for sure this combo works :

E4400 - 8500GT - 2 GB Ram

---

As far as advice, spend as much as you are willing to on the processor. I doubt anyone has ever regretted getting TOO MUCH processing power

btl.

[mikesm]

The IP35-E is a great motherboard for the price. I've seen it around for $65, and it overclocks well and is very stable. A nice match for an E2140 or E4400, etc...

Thanks,
mike

[davephan]

The Abit IP35 Pro mobo is a bit more expensive than $65. The IP35 Pro has a few more features like up to 6 SATA drives in a RAID instead of 4 SATA without RAID and dual 10/100/1000 NICS. When I bought it three weeks ago it was $185. Now it is on sale for $165 after a $20 rebate. The IP35-E is about $95 after a rebate, so it might be a much better deal if you don't plan to use dual NICS or more SATA drives in a RAID configuration in the future.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...Tpk=ip35%2bpro

Dave

[davephan]

Depending on how much you want to spend on the CPU, the E4400 2.0 gig at $125 isn't much more money than the E2140 1.6 gig at $75.

If you can afford more for the CPU, then the E6850 3.0 gig at $279 isn't much more than the E6600 2.4 gig at $228.

If you overclock the CPU, you probably have to go with a better air cooler at about $60 - $80, or go with liquid cooling for about $200 - $250. Phase cooling is too expensive, around $800, but you could really overclock the CPU when its temperature is -30 degrees Celsius!

Dave

[mikesm]

Originally Posted by davephan

The Abit IP35 Pro mobo is a bit more expensive than $65. The IP35 Pro has a few more features like up to 6 SATA drives in a RAID instead of 4 SATA without RAID and dual 10/100/1000 NICS. When I bought it three weeks ago it was $185. Now it is on sale for $165 after a $20 rebate. The IP35-E is about $95 after a rebate, so it might be a much better deal if you don't plan to use dual NICS or more SATA drives in a RAID configuration in the future.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...Tpk=ip35%2bpro

Dave

Sorry you're right, I was talking about the IP65-E: $69 AR here: http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec....iteria=BA23929

Thanks,
mike

[davephan]

Originally Posted by mikesm

Sorry you're right, I was talking about the IP65-E: $69 AR here: http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec....iteria=BA23929

Thanks,
mike

The to mware.com link was for an IP35-E. I checked IP35-E on Newegg.com, there are mostly positive reviews, but there were a couple really bad reviews. Although, it is hard to find products on Newegg where someone did not have problems...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813127031

If you don't need the RAID, extra drive capacity, or dual NICs, then it would be a lot cheaper. You might be able to get a faster CPU for the mobo with the savings from the cheaper mobo.

I have dual 10/100/1000 built-in NICS. I am thinking about using one of them to connect to a HDHomerun with a crossover cable in the future when I get HD. The IP35-E only has one NIC, which might also work for HDHomerun if there isn't a lot of contention.

Dave

[mikesm]

I have my server running on an old NF4 motherboard, and the HD homerun into a 100 mbit switch (through a gigabiut uplink), that is plugged into a gigabit switch that the server, nas and a bunch of other stuff is in. The HD Homerun works fine.

I have to say I don't understand why folks are having such problems with the ethernet part of this. This isn't all that hard.

Thanks,
Mike

[Shield]

Originally Posted by malore

Your video card should be doing all the video decoding so the CPU shouldn't really matter.

True, to some extent. With native h.264, sure. With matroksa files that apparently don't have a H.264 header or whatever, it falls back on the cpu. At least that's what I've gathered; does this make sense?

[Shield]

Well here's the verdict on the new Sage rig:

Sage 6.2.10
SageMC 6.4b
2 gigs DDR3-1066 OCZ
Asus P5K Mobo
Q6600 Quad-core (G0 stepping) 2.4 overclocked to 3.0 ghz
LSI Logic 8308ELP 8 channel SATA II / SAS controller
6 SATA II hard drives ranging from 250GB to 320GB - two of them are mirrored for the OS
Nvidia 8600GT Asus
XP Pro SP2
HDHomerun + Nvidia Dual MCE

What can I say except WOW! 1080p and below all work flawlessly. All my movie times trailers are silky smooth, plus other .mkv 1080p files are as well. I was very hesitant about spending the $$$ on a Sage box, but I was without one for two weeks and missed it dearly. Now, instead of running DirMon2/Showanalyzer on a separate box, I run everything on Sage itself.

Sometimes throwing money in hardware at a problem helps. This box should be good to go for several years - when a drive dies, it'll get replaced with 1TB drives. Sage just zips through all the menus with the beefy quad core....

[malore]

Originally Posted by Shield

True, to some extent. With native h.264, sure. With matroksa files that apparently don't have a H.264 header or whatever, it falls back on the cpu. At least that's what I've gathered; does this make sense?

I was only thinking about direct mpeg-2 HDTV recordings. If you are playing HD files in other formats, they may well not be hardware accelerated by the GPU.

Sounds like you have a sweet SageTV computer now that should pretty much handle anything you throw at it.

[Shield]

Originally Posted by malore

I was only thinking about direct mpeg-2 HDTV recordings. If you are playing HD files in other formats, they may well not be hardware accelerated by the GPU.

Sounds like you have a sweet SageTV computer now that should pretty much handle anything you throw at it.

Every time I see you or Nielm post I feel like I'm talking to a celebrity - I've seen your names a million times in the log / config files! Like just now I thought Oooh, is this Malore, as in "Malore's Menu's?" I KNOW that dude!

Having a big workhorse box forgives a lot of things with Sage.

[davephan]

I was going to get an Asus mobo until I read too many bad reviews. However there are bad review for almost everything on Newegg.

What type of cooler are you going to use?


Dave

[autoboy]

It all depends on the software and drivers.

I had 1080i to my 720P DLP working great on my 1.2ghz Athlon XP and 9600XT with Purevideo Decoders and hardware acceleration, FSE, and VMR9. I don't remember the CPU load but it was below 80% for sure. Maybe around the 60% mark. My girlfriend's P4 1.5Ghz machine has no problems with 1080i and the same 9600XT. I'm at work so I can't verify the CPU load.

Right now I have a 7300LE and an an Athlon 3200+ with zero stutter with purevideo and FSE. I upgraded to a 2600pro and it was a stuttering mess. Even the 2400pro worked better because it used a less advanced algorithm. I'm back to the 7300LE and waiting for the HD extender, or better ATI drivers.

All the deinterlacing was handled by software with the 9600XT and it used the simplest algorithms. Still, it looked pretty good. Purevideo introduced a lot more processing to get better deinterlacing which loaded the CPU and GPU more heavily than the other setup. The 2600pro wanted to do Vector Adaptive deinterlacing which loaded the GPU to nearly 100%, and the CPU to 75%, while the 7300LE only uses 35% of the CPU. Stutter free playback is all software dependent.

If you want to use the lastest graphics cards, I would suggest a single core CPU over 2.4ghz, or a slow dual core. If you want to use the older cards, you can get away with much less. Until the graphics drivers get fixed, it is all a tossup.

I can't freaking wait for the HD extenders!!!!!!!! All this crap goes away.