New to Sage but not HTPCs

[frontlinegeek]

Hello all. My first post here.

I am researching the possibility of cutting my MCE 2005 network over to SageTV. The biggest reason that I am is due to Sage being able to do live TV from firewire and also that Sage supports a proper client/server setup.

So far, the only issue I have had is streaming live HD from firewire to a Sage Client. The CPU util on the client spikes to 100%. This is obviously not a good thing and will stop me from going to Sage if I cannot conquer it.

Here is all of the vital info on the testing setup:

Server:
Asus M2A-VM HDMI
Athlon X20 4000+
2 GB DDR2 667
250 GB Maxtor with 16 MB cache
Using Onboard X1250 video


Testing client:
ASRock Dual939 VSTA
Athlon 64 3500+
2 GB DDR 400
40 GB Boot Drive
160 GB data Drive
ATI X1600 Pro AGP

Notes:

• My network is Gigabit and all PCs are running Gig-E cards
• The network util never goes above 1%
• When playing a Live TV firewire stream of a non-HD channel, CPU on the client is only about 15%
• Playback on the server is perfect for both HD and SD and the CPU util is only about 40% for HD
• I am currently using the FireSTB setup with my MCE systems and it has been working flawlessly for over a year
• None of the channels have 5C set to 1 (I know, Lucky me )
• I am using the 6.1.9 version of SageTV and Sage Client

Any suggestions or tips in the next 10 days will be greatly appreciated as that is all I have left for demo time.

[frontlinegeek]

OK. My bad.

Moments after I hit post, I realized what I probably did not do and I was right.

I had forgot to change the video decoder to NOT the Sage decoder. That fixed the 100% during playback (Dropped to less than 40%) but while monitoring and because of other negative comments in the forum here, I noted that when accessing the guide from the client and still playing the HD stream that the CPU on the client spikes up to 90% or higher and stays there. The guide is still mostly responsive but it is still concerning. I want to be sure that there are no hickups for my wife as she is not computer literate and it was enough when I got her onto the MCE setup.

[CollinR]

I'm thinking your problem is going to be a display driver or display adapter issue. With the client machine...

The high CPU load indicates you have no hardware support for MPEG2 assuming you are dealing with MPEG2. What is the stream? I have seen firewire recording talked about but I also though it was complicated to configure and unstable compared to the QAM cards. Of course you have already found a major advantage to it, I hope it stays going well.

[frontlinegeek]

The high CPU load indicates you have no hardware support for MPEG2 assuming you are dealing with MPEG2.

By not using the PowerDVD codec instead of the SageTV one, that was exactly what was happening.

What is the stream?

MPEG2

I have seen firewire recording talked about but I also though it was complicated to configure and unstable compared to the QAM cards.

It seems to me an issue that depends on where you are in North America and what the 5C policy is like with your cable providor. Fortunately, Rogers in Atlantic Canada is the perfect environment for firewire setups.

Of course you have already found a major advantage to it, I hope it stays going well.

Well, so far so good since changing the codec settings. But that guide being such a hog from a client is still something I hope that can be tweaked.

Also, on a guide related question, I assume the TVTV option is the best or is there a better one that gets turned on when you pay for SageTV?

The only other things that I have to look into and test is avi and other files of that ilk for playback and for ripped DVDs to VOBs. If I am simply being overly thorough, let me know. I have about a TB of my DVDs ripped to VOB and other misc downloads that I want to be sure are easily accessed by my wife.

Thanks for the reply!

[Opus4]

Originally Posted by que3jxp

Also, on a guide related question, I assume the TVTV option is the best or is there a better one that gets turned on when you pay for SageTV?

SageTV's built-in guide data covers Canada (it comes from Zap2It, not tvtv) & is included during the trial period, so it doesn't change to something else after you register a license.

I have about a TB of my DVDs ripped to VOB and other misc downloads that I want to be sure are easily accessed by my wife.

There is a PDF manual in your SageTV directory (accessible via Setup -> Help -> View Manual when on a Windows PC) -- see Appendix I for info about hard drive based DVDs, starting on p. 253 for the v6.1 manual.

- Andy

[CollinR]

Originally Posted by que3jxp

Well, so far so good since changing the codec settings. But that guide being such a hog from a client is still something I hope that can be tweaked.

Also, on a guide related question, I assume the TVTV option is the best or is there a better one that gets turned on when you pay for SageTV?

Opus covered the methods but whats the "hog" comment about? How many sources and channels do you have?

Originally Posted by que3jxp

Thanks for the reply!

Anytime, excellent first post BTW.

[frontlinegeek]

SageTV's built-in guide data covers Canada (it comes from Zap2It, not tvtv) & is included during the trial period, so it doesn't change to something else after you register a license.

Ya, I was confused by the automatic blocking of double mapped channels from my cable providor. It had me thinking that there were channels that the guide was not providing.

As for the DVD stuff, I noticed that after adding the folder with all of the VOB rips that it added a pile generic DVD pictures to the "Videos" section in STV. That pretty much covers my needs on that front.

The only other thing now is dual Firewire setup which I can read about in that enourmous thread I imagine. Unless someone wants to come right out and tell me where in that massive thread to look.

[frontlinegeek]

Originally Posted by CollinR

Opus covered the methods but whats the "hog" comment about? How many sources and channels do you have?

It is in reference to the fact that when you bring up the guide from the STV Client, the CPU util jumps to 70% to 90%. This is happens specifically when you are watching a streamed HD show. The evvect is more subdued when you are watching an SD feed and bring up the guide.

The same thing does NOT happen when at the STV main HTPC.

As for my sources, under testing, I am only using one SGraph firewire feed. The implementation plan (Which is for sure now), is to have two SGraph Firewire tuners on the one STV server HTPC and the other HTPC will get STV Client.

[CollinR]

MVP slays HTPCs for SD clients, so get one for sure.

Make sure Sage server is running in service mode.

Start spelling out Sage server, client, extender (right now only MVP) or placeshifter. STV is the configuration files for the user interface, you can run a different STV on each client including the one on the server.


Get the following:

Commskip + Commskip Monitor
Webserver
Custom dynamic menus

MVP for any SD usage, they are so cheap you can convert any TV to Sage on the cheap.


For the PC clients get a Snapstream FireFly remote (cheap, RF, good range)and EventGhost (free, FireFly and SageTV are fully supported).
Once you have that you can do just about whatever you can dream up, mine controls my lights soon to be temp too. This done from an $80 MVP no less.

[mike1961]

A few quick things come to mind (although I have not played with HD I too had 90% usage on my client pcs and got that down to around only 10%).

First, try using the nVidea Decoders as they take advantage of using the hardware on the video card. Make sure your video card is fairly recent. nVidea and ATI are good (but others may have other suggestions).

Second, if you have any antivirus software (especially Norton) consider temporarily disabling it to see if you get better results and if so, you may have to tweak it to ignore certain extensions.

Third, try copying a large file from your server to your workstation and time it to make sure you do not have a bad Cat 5/6 cable or connector (which is very common). See how long it takes to copy a 1 gb file from your server to your workstation (or try copying the entire movie). Then, if the time is within specs, try playing the HD or mpeg2 file on another player on your client pc (such as with Nero Showtime or something) and see if you have high CPU usage playing the file directly on your computer with another player outside of Sage. This should help the troubleshooting process.

Mike

[autoboy]

Are you using VMR9?

[frontlinegeek]

The intended server PC is as follows:

ABit NF7-S 2.0
Athlon XP 2500+
1 GB RAM
EVGA GeForce 7600GS AGP
Too many drives to list.

As for the network, I know that all is well. I built and wired the house and it is in the same condition as it was from day 1.

MVP slays HTPCs for SD clients, so get one for sure.

I have no SD clients so that is not needed at this time.

I am good for remotes where I am converting from a MCE 2005 setup. I am very impressed with how well the MCE remote is accepted by SageTV.

try using the nVidea Decoders

I have the latest PowerDVD so it does the same as the PV decoder and probably better.

Does it at all help if the audio decoder is also set to the Cyberlink one?

Also, what is the deal with FFDShow and SageTV? Does it behave properly or are there known issues?

Thanks again all!!! I paid for my server and client license tonight so I am now neck deep in it and would love to be able to get everything working by this Saturday as the new TV season is just about to kick into high gear and I am tired of scheduling on two separate MCE HTPCs.

[frontlinegeek]

I should also mention that all of my video cards are rated by Cyberlink for HD playback so they should in no way be the source of the issue.

[frontlinegeek]

OK. I nailed the big challenge of dual firewire STB configuration and it is working perfectly. The only thing I need to worry about on this aspect is what order and where in the Windows startup sequence that I need to place SageTV and the two SGraph sessions. Obviously, I need to be sure that SGraph loads before SageTV so a few suggestions here would be nice.

Otherwise, the only MAJOR issue I have is a playback issue with HD content on the server machine, which is the "least powerful" of the two machines. It does have a more powerful video card than the client so it is confusing me a bit.

Also, keep in mind that just a couple of days ago, I was using the exact same server hardware to record and playback HD contend under MCE 2005 and it was perfect. No studder, hickups or lag.

One thing I did notice was that when I was looking at the SageTV TV Guide that the small window of the HD stream was playing smooth. Is there some rendering setting in SageTV that is a little wonky?

Again, here are the specifics for the system that is having the HD playback issues.

SageTV Server/Main HTPC

ABit NF7-S 2.0
Athlon XP 2500+
1 GB DDR400
EVGA GeForce 7600 GS AGP
Windows XP MCE 2005 (All MCE services disabled)
Boot Drive: 80 GB Hitachi
Data Drive: 250 GB Samsung
(The two drives are on separate IDE ports)

CODECS I have Tried/Have Access To
PowerDVD 7.3
PureVideo 1.02.223
PureVideo 1.02.196

I should also note that I have uninstalled NOD32 and any other applications that do not need to be running on that server machine.

[CollinR]

This will be interesting, I dunno if you will be able to use Sage in service mode.

[frontlinegeek]

Well, I employed some of my mad SkillZ from work and figured a batch file with some sleep commands would get it done and it did.

I tossed the batch file in the startup folder and shazam!

Here is how it reads:

"C:\Documents and Settings\jason\Desktop\SGraph Tuner 1.lnk"
sleep 5
"C:\Documents and Settings\jason\Desktop\SGraph Tuner 2.lnk"
sleep 5
"C:\Program Files\SageTV\SageTV\SageTV.exe"

And you are right on the service mode. That is a total non-starter when you are using SGraphRecorder.

[CollinR]

and that is a VERY bad thing.


Maybe you could offload the firewire to a seperate box and use it as a network encoder???

[frontlinegeek]

Actually, the batch file is working perfectly.

Now for something I thought I had nailed first day when just using the demo...

I have video folders set up and I am seeing and able to play ripped DVDs but there is also AVI and other video file types in there and none of them are showing up for me. Any quick ideas?

[CollinR]

If it is an AVI it won't be displayed in the "DVD" section of inported video, it will be in the all videos and you can browse for them as well. It requeries those directories on some schedule I have yet to grasp. Anyway the files will not be instantly visable but will show up in time so don't move them around a lot.

[frontlinegeek]

Hmmm...

It has been several hours and I have browsed the My Videos by folder and they are still not listing.

Does it at all matter that I am using the SageMC STV?