Mediaportal to SageTV - my thoughts.

[infocus13]

This is the message I posted @ the MP forums. Thought Sage/MP users on this forum may find the feedback interesting. I've been using MP for 12 months until two weeks ago when I made the switch to SageTV.

"I recently switched from MP to SageTV and thought I'd add my 2 cents to this thread.

Firstly, why I switched to Sage (a commercial, and by no means cheap product):

* Stability - the app is very solid and does not crash
* Usability - it just feels "complete" all the necessary tools that you need for a prime-time living room HTPC are there. You dont get the feeling that a certain component/app is not finished and is missing some functions (or is just not working)
* Integration - when you run Sage, you don't need to constantly exit the application to make configuration changes, etc. After I installed the webserver and the XMLTV grabber and importer, I have no reason to exit the app at all - everything is integrated via the GUI and provide a seamless experience for the end user.
* Integration II - all the main tools you need in a HTPC are integrated into the core app - auto compression of TV shows to MP4, PSP, iPod, etc - there, a simple file browser - there. Insanely customisable menus & UI - there, extremely configurable comskip support (it took me literally 5 minutes to set it up and it worked flawlessly since, the only settings I had to tweak in comskip are ones to disable/cleanup the .log and .txt files). Main thing is that all those options are just there in the UI. I did have to install a couple of add-ons (SageMC is the most notable one) to get some of these features, but the installs were simple and required little tweaking outside of the Sage core app.
* Integration III - when I installed Sage I breathed a sigh of relief. Using Sage means I could uninstall SQL Express, SQL studio, Crunchie, DVRMSToolbox and a couple of other apps I cant think of straight away. My HTPC now has the bare minimum of software.
* Webserver - the sophistication and usability of the webserver is amazing. It completely mirrors everything function that Sage offers including streaming all you media (incl. live tv) via the webserver. It is amazing.
* Tv recordinds management - here in Oz we get EPG data from minnie.tuhs which includes first run data. The ability to record first-runs/re-runs was unknown to me with MP. Now it is invaluable. The whole recording logic/engine in Sage TV is far superior to MP. Having the ability to create recordings by keyword, advanced series options, not to mention the management & configurability of your recordings is very advanced and is superior to MP.
* Interface - looks professional and complete. I'm using the Foofaraw skin, which was developed by an MP user. Whilst Foofaraw is still unfinished in MP, Sage has this skin 100% complete - every screen, every menu, every UI element. It looks professional and just bloody good.
* Support - having requested assistance in the Sage forums several times on a number of issues (relatively minor) I have been able to receive assistance from numerous users within a couple of hours. I did not feel I could get that with MP when I had to seek help in these forums. Whether it is just me, I don't know, but that was my impression.

Overall, my decision to switch to Sage was driven by usability and stability. Sage is stable as a rock, records reliably and does not require me to leave the gui for "everyday" config changes. Sure major changes require me to restart the UI (or even the PC) but having had the app for 2 weeks now, I have configure it enough to not have to do that anymore. Whilst I'm very proficient with PCs, our HTPC replaced our TV, DVD player, VCR, stereo system, and photo repository. It is vital that whatever front end was running on the HTPC was reliable and seamless. I felt that Sage could provide that.

Also, I think that what sets Sage apart from MP is Sage's focus on usability. Majority of plugins, addons, etc are about improving the UI, usability or some other part of the app to make it easier for the end user to adopt to and use as a prime-time HTPC app. MP's focus on the other hand is on extending existing functions, introducing new ones, etc. MP is more of a "tweaker's" app than a "user's app".

So what do I miss about MP? There are a couple of things:

*MP has an integrated news reader and web-browser. Sage doesn't
* MP has a lot more skins to choose from, Sage has a couple of main ones but not nearly as many as MP. Sage does however have complete skins - all the elements are there, many of MPs current skins are incomplete.
* MP has a lot more plugins and those are being developed actively by users. Sage does not have as many by comparison, however the ones that are there are of very high standard and are mainly complete.
* MP's SVN structure for the core app and TVE3 is fantastic in terms of getting immediate bug fixes within a day or two. With Sage you often have to wait a week or two between Beta releases (I havent had much experience with Sage's Beta versions at this stage, so cannot comment on how good their bug fix response is).
* The default, "out of the box" UI in Sage is butt ugly and just plain hard to use. It is not logical or intuitive. It is certainly not designed for full-time HTPC use. I use sageMC, which is a completely different UI created by several advanced sage users, which is very similar to MCE/MP UIs (i.e. the UI is designed to be used on a TV, with a remote). Whilst I would still use sage without sagemc, I think MP's default UI is better.

I will still check on MP from time to time and I hope this app will go from strength to strength in the future. The devs are doing an awesome job in getting this app to prime-time status and I was extremely happy to see RC2 released (and stable, judging from the lack of response in the SVN forums).

Thanks guys.

p.s. I do realise that Sage is commercial software and not cheap at that. I realise that having this income gives them more optins and more freedom to make the app more complete, useable, stable, etc. I realise that MP does not have that luxury being open source. This post does not intend to directly compare the two apps, but rather provide some feedback as to what MP can do differently to have wider appeal and transcend the "tweaker" category it currently sits in.

I should also add, some of the best add-ons for Sage that I use (sagemc, xmltv importer, webserver, comskip monitor, dvd burner) are free, opensource and have been created by the sage user community."

[Khristopher]

I used MP for about a year, then switched to BeyondTV for about 3 years, and have finally moved to Sage.

Moving to Sage has been the best move yet. It is everything I'm looking for in an HTPC program.

I too got frustrated with MP's stability issues, and the external configuration program.

BeyondTV was not an integrated product and this major flaw is what finally made me decide to switch. I invested hundreds of dollars in BTV and it sucks to know I got on the wrong bandwagon!

[CollinR]

SageTV dominates all others in the market for features, ease of use and customization.

[frontlinegeek]

I am actually in the process of evaluating going from MCE 2005 to SageTV and so far it is looking very good for Sage.

MP is just nowhere near ready and I will not even waste my time installing it.

And to your comments on getting replies on the MP forum, you are dead on. I posted a bunch of time looking for info and never got replies. Not a good idea if one is looking to grow their installed base.

If the next few more days go as well as they have so far, I can very quickly see Sage getting $99 from me VERY shortly. MCE is very nice but Sage does client/server and also handles LiveTV from firewire and MCE does neither. I am addicted to my firewire setups so LiveTV would be the Coup de Gras.

[infocus13]

I wonder how big MPs user base is compared to Sage. The reason I'm wondering (and this is not meant to be a post bagging MP) is that I thought being freeware and having that freeware "community" around it, MP forums should be an easy place to get answers and help. My experience is that they aren't. I'm amazed how quickly I've been able to get help in these STV forums & the quality of the help as well (i.e. the suggestions actually work!)

[ronald2oo2]

My thoughts:

Seeing all the daily posts with problems and my first experience with SageTV not even being able to scan DVB-S channels without crashing :

why pay for SageTV when you can have similar problems for free with MP ???

[evilpenguin]

Originally Posted by ronald2oo2

My thoughts:

Seeing all the daily posts with problems and my first experience with SageTV not even being able to scan DVB-S channels without crashing :

why pay for SageTV when you can have similar problems for free with MP ???

MP tends to have really good support for formats and hardware used outside the US as their dev's are primarily from Europe.

[sainswor99]

Originally Posted by ronald2oo2

My thoughts:

Seeing all the daily posts with problems and my first experience with SageTV not even being able to scan DVB-S channels without crashing :

why pay for SageTV when you can have similar problems for free with MP ???

One of the downsides to having an active user community is that you get to hear all of the dirty laundry about the program Most of the good stuff that's in Sage goes unnoticed.

Have you sent a request in to support regarding your DVB-S issue? They're usually pretty responsive, and that's what you're paying for.

Stu

[frontlinegeek]

Originally Posted by ronald2oo2

why pay for SageTV when you can have similar problems for free with MP ???

See, the funny thing is that I never had any issues migrating from MCE to SageTV that were not more than just from my infamiliarity with Sage.

Mind you, I do not use DVB-S cards. But as pointed out, if you can't find it in the forum, you did pay for Sage (Presumably) and you can get tech support. No such ability with MP.

[rtengvad]

Originally Posted by ronald2oo2

My thoughts:

Seeing all the daily posts with problems and my first experience with SageTV not even being able to scan DVB-S channels without crashing :

why pay for SageTV when you can have similar problems for free with MP ???

Hi ronald2oo2

Most problems that pops up in this forum are due to some sort of faulty setup and can easily be solved.

If you have a problem with your card that no one here can help you with you should contact support. And then I can recommend you to participate in the beta testing. Especially with DVB that does not exist in US. In the beta process you get maximum attention and with the chance of catching problems early. I have a DVB-C card and it now works with no problems in Sage.

Good luck

Rasmus