bunch of questions

[jingado]

Hi all

I have been using Sagetv for almost a week now, and am generally quite satisified. Therefore, I'm now thinking about making the next big step, and using it as a tivo replacement. truth of the matter is, I don't really need a tivo, but having the computer function as one could be nice.

First off, here are my computer's specs:
Soyo KT333 Dragon black motherboard
AMD 2000+ XP processor
160gb Maxtor HD
768mb ram
Asus Geforce Ti4200, 128mb, 4x AGP tv card
Creative Labs video blaster digital VCR.

up until now, I have been using the video blaster software and was rather disappointed by it. There was no built in EPG, and the reception was bad.

and for the questions / requests for advice:
1. I have noticed reception is never good when using direct RF cables, probably because of static interference inside the computer's case. Therefore, I am planning on using an external cable box. Do any of you manage to get good reception using simple RF signal pickup?
2. I understand the IR blaster function of the Digital VCR is not yet supported by sagetv. I even saw the CEO asking for information on other sites. Did someone find a solution for this? will it be supported in sagetv 2.0? I really don't want to spend $50 on an ir transmitter... Perhaps someone knows a cheap open source alternative?
3. I have a scientific atlanta explorer 1850 cable box. it has a connector in the back labeled IR, and according to the user guide (http://www.scientificatlanta.com/exp...d/4003318A.pdf) it's for using something called a vcr commander. Is it possible to use this somehow with sagetv?
4. the whole codec issue is confusing me. I seem to be getting the best results using the intervideo codec with bob and weave interlacing. The elcard mpeg2 decoder appears to be taking too much CPU power. What I don't understand is the whole interlacing/dscaler issue. Do I need to run dscaler as well as sagetv (btw, it refuses to work with my digital vcr card, so that could be a problem). Is there any agreement concerning the best codec version to use with sagetv? also, I should note that I formatted a paritition of my HD in 64kb cluster size, and it definetely improved the performance, but this is still quite far from regular tv.
5. is there any way of turning of the automatic live recording? will it continuosly record until the HD is full (or according to any other limit I set)?
6. Assuming reception is not amazing, what's the recommended recording quality to use? if I use the highest option (something like 5gb an hour) does that slow down the system or make reception worse by freezing at times.
7. I noticed the software tends to freeze at times and become unaccessible. Does it happen to anyone else? is there any way of preventing this?
8. this is less about sagetv, and about tv-out in general. Nvidia's NVIEW solution just sucks, and tvtool is causing me problems as well. any ideas?
9. will the guide service continue to be free on version 2.0? if not, perhaps someone from the company can estimate the cost?

woo.... lots of long questions. Hope you could survive till the end. All answers will be appreciated.

Merry Christmas
Jonathan

[stanger89]

Jonathan,

Glad to see another Sage convert. I'll answer what I can.

1) Don't know much about the DVCR but based on my experience, unfortunately the reception problem is probably your card. I've had experience with an ATI TV Wonder, Hauppauge WinTV PVR PCI (the original) and now use a WinTV PVR 250 with Sage. The reception and PQ is far better on the 250 than either of the other cards. My cable isn't great and the 250 seems to have better reception than my RCA HDTV. The whole "there's a lot of interference in a PC" argument is crap as far as I'm concerned, I've seen no evidence that moving things out of the PC improves anything.

I looked here for more info about the DVCR and if that's the kind of PQ you are getting that would indicate to me it's the card. Also the table about halfway down the page: 2Gb/hr is what I use for things I don't care about 3Gb/hr is what I use for my favorites.

2) Haven't heard anything about DVCR IR blaster support.

3) VCR Commander sounds like something to control a VCR, the opposite of how you want Sage working, you want Sage to control the box not the other way around, which isn't supported and kind of defeats the purpose of Sage.

4) This is probably the best article I've seen on interlacing/deinterlacing: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...e-10-2000.html

Dscaler, the app, won't work with SageTV, or any of the cards supported by SageTV. However, when using the Elecard decoders, you can use some of the Dscaler deinterlacing algorithms like TomsMoComp.

Now no, there is no agreement on the best codec. I like Sonic filters, but many people are happy with NVDVD or Intervideo NonCSS or WinDVD or PowerDVD.

5) See the FAQ. In addition to that, Sage cleans up after itself. Sage will either all available space on the drive, use x Mb of space, or leave y Mb of space free, depending on how you set it.

6) You'll just have to experiment with that. In some circumstances a lower bitrate will filter out some of the noise, but in other circumstances too low a bitrate will cause macroblocking since it runs out of bits to use.

7) Sage is generally rock solid for me, it can run weeks at a time. More info would be helpful in diagnosing this.

8) How did you decide the TV out sucks? The Windows desktop will never look good over any TV out, it's just not possible at 480i. If you've got an analog SDTV that won't accept 480p or above then a PVR 350 is your best choice especially with 2.0 and its support for the Sage UI over the 350's TV out.

9) There has been no indication that there will ever be a charge for the guide data.

Good luck,

Chad

[justme]

If after more info is provided, stanger89 can't help you with #7. You might won't to post it seperately. I don't want to discourage you but I've read a lot of bad posts about the DVCR, but hopefully your problem is not related to your card.

I agree about the Nview being crap, I have a Geforce4. I would definately invest in a PVR350 as long as you meet the criteria Stranger89 suggests. It's hard to beat a hardware decoder if you just have a SVHS/composite input to your TV.

About #2 have you tried this thread? It's old and appearantly dead but it looks like several people got it to work on a limited basis.

[insomniac]

If you dont want a world of heartache, I wouldnt use dvcr with sage. The only thing that the dvcr works well with is its native software.

If you are insistent on attempting to get a setup going with the dvcr, I would suggest a server/client setup. The reason being is that all it takes is a small hickup on the machine that hosts the dvcr and your audio will lose sync (e.g. changing channels too fast, antivirus software kicks off, heavy network utilization, browsing the web, etc...). So if you use a dedicated server with the dvcr card and then access the server from a client, you can avoid some heartache.

Obviously, your mileage may vary, but I can tell you that I own 2 dvcr's and have tried every configuration imagineable (most all leading to heartache..).

I would suggest that if you convert to sage, you should convert to a pvr250 or pvr350 as well. This way if you dont need a client/server setup, (which can be quite expensive) you will at least lay the groundwork to a stable configuration.

The static: Unfortunately it is pretty hit and miss on getting a well insulated card or not. One of my cards is very clean, the other is not so clean. You will find that if you put the card as far away from the power supply and/or other cards, you will probably end up with a cleaner picture. I would suggest swapping out your power supply. That did the trick on mine.

I.

[jingado]

thanks for the answers!

a few more questions/comments:
first, I should say I am well aware that the DVCR is problematic. I bought it last year for $50 after rebate, so I can't say I'm disappointed or suprised by its mediocre performance. up till now I used it to watch tv on a small windows while surfing the web, which was nice.

now, the pvr 350 sure sounds good, but there are a few issues. First, for that price I could just get a tivo or replaytv. here the subscription is an issue, so unless the sage guide will indeed remain free there's absolutley no reason to use instead of a dedicated box like the tivo. unfortunately, with my shoestring budget as a student I think I'll have to keep remembering to sit in front of the tv when my favorite shows are on.

I understand the pvr350 has a tv-out. their site isn't clear about it. Does the TV-out work seperately from the video card I have? I mean, is it possible to work on the computer screen while sending video to the tv from the card's software?
also, it seems like most stores don't carry it. Is it because it's new or is it discontinued?

regarding the nvidia tv-out. well, the nview software is bad. Every slight change you make to your computer desktop screen resets everything, you get black borders on the tv screen and it's unstable. of course, with my old toshiba I wouldn't expect to be able to surf the web from any TV-out card - the problem is not the picture quality but the stability and ease of use of the whole thing. If I end up using the computer as digital vcr I would like my girlfriend to be able to operate it; sage is really easy, but messing around with the tv-out settings is tiresome.

and about the stability issue. it never crashes per se, but often it becomes non responsive for a while. I don't know whether it affects the recording or not, I need to test that out.

I will look into the IR blaster feature of the DVCR later tonight. I can't thank you enough for helping me with all this stuff.

[phenixdragon]

As to the quality issue, any component you add into the loop will add to the problem. So a cable box will lower the quality you receive but it may be so small you won’t even notice it.. Such as with just a normal TV setup I use to be able to see a different when I had a cable box and when. I did not. The quality was always better w/o the box. But then again, you have fewer channels to watch.

As for nVidia, it is like what “insomniac’ said, this is also a hit and miss. Some people will swear by ATI or they will by the Xcard and others. It is all trial and error. Newer nVidia cards have a better chance with high quality. I personally will pick ATI over nVidia for TV out but every setup is different and nVidia may work better for you. The PVR-350 has hardware decoding and that is what you want for any type of TV out.

SageTV 2.0 will suppose the OSD but the current version does not. 2.0 should be out very soon as it is in beta as we speak.

As for the PVR-350, this is most likely your best pick for video out. Yes, you can send a signal out and have your computer run to the monitor. It also has not been discontinued. I have many available.

As for just running TV out it would be very easy to setup with SageTV and unless you are having OS problems there is no reason to reset any settings. But weather may affect any type of electronics. But a normal desktop running at home shouldn’t have issues with the weather but it is always a possibility.

[AirJunky]

I ran with a Sage / PVR250 / Xcard configuration & am very happy. The TV image is awesome. CPU utilization is less than 5%. The swap file is currently like 400+ meg so I'm thinking a 512 meg memory upgrade (bring it up to 768 meg) will make the PC more useable while Sage is running. It's not bad now, but we frequently run programs like Quickbooks & Photoshop on it too, both of which are big memory hogs. The system is running WinXP Pro & is super stable, runs 24/7 with a reboot maybe once a week.

I think if I were to do it again, I'd look at the PVR 350, because of the OSD & the simplicity of having only one card. It's a fairly new card so discontinueing isn't an issue. I have not seen one in a system so I don't have anything verify that it would be better than my current config. I think it's important to have all your encoding & decoding done with hardware so the PC can also do other things & the cost difference is not that much higher.

I did buy a nVidia FX5200 PVR system while I was waiting for Sage to get inventory of the PVR 250s. It looked like CRAP. I messed with it for a week or so & took it back. It was basically a glorified multi-monitor setup & we all know that a TV does NOT make a good monitor in Windows. The PVR 250 / Xcard combo is FAR BETTER in my own experience.

I also have used an ATI Rage 3d with TV out in the past (Win98SE). It looked great on a monitor, but would have stability &/or synch problems if the PC wasn't rebooted fairly often.

[pbarrette]

Hi all,

It's been a while since I have posted here, but I keep seeing comments that nobody is using the DVCR anymore so I felt the need to respond.

I am using the DVCR with SageTV 1.4.(???) on an EPIA 1G Nehemiah system. The system runs 24/7 with no problems. The longest period of time that Sage has been running is about 75 days (2.5 months).

My specs,
1G Nehemiah core EPIA Mini-ITX
WinXP +SP1
PowerDVD 4 codecs
Original DVCR drivers (Not Demo's hacked driver)
SageTV 1.4.??? (Can't remember. 5 or so)
Modified Sage DLL to stop the use of the DVCR's remote
Girder with DVCR remote plugin
MyHTPC

I record at "Best" settings (~2gb/hr) at 640x480 with 192kbps audio.

All of the recordings that I make are completely in sync and picture quality from my analog cable TV is excellent. There are several times that I have thought I was watching the live TV feed, but was actually looking at the output from Sage.

Editing my recordings to remove commercials is a different matter. About 95% of the time, there are no problems whatsoever. Open the file in M2Edit, chop the commercials, write the new file, done. The other 5% of the time the resulting file is out of sync after the edit. This has more to do with the MPEG editor's ability to recognize unreadable (bad) audio or video frames within the MPEG file. Most editors toss out bad frames and make no attempt to keep the audio frames synced to the video. Keep in mind that this only applies to edited recordings and all of the original recordings are always in sync.

What insomniac said about a dedicated machine is unfortunately true. If your CPU load maxes out then frames will be lost which may result in the recordings being out of sync. Since I am using this as a set-top box which is dedicated as my PVR the system is used for nothing but multimedia functions. On the other hand recording alone takes only ~5-10% of my CPU resources and I can watch Divx/MPEG/etc while recording or play countless MP3s with absolutely no recording corruption.

If I were to switch to the PVR-250 or any other card that is supported by linux, then I wouldn't even bother with Sage. Personally, I would switch to a linux system which has lower resource usage and much lower OS overhead and use MythTV or one of the other linux based PVR programs.

pb