Potential to make many people happy... "My Movies" for SageTV?

[sflamm]

Several points:

1. I dont claim MyMovies is the best. Though it is pretty easy to use. HOWEVER, it is the only collection manager that supports multiple clients simulataneously (see #4 below as to why this is so important)
2. MyMovies most important feature is that it unifies the DVD types
3. VMC users do NOT use extenders, windows extenders suck (duh)
4. Usually VMC users build a second small box that has another VMC installation (it is a 'soft' extender... would be even softer if they had ever released 'softsled')
5. The 'extender' VMC boxes do everything... so there is no difference between any of them -- only that the 'Main' VMC box is doing the recording. No transcoding etc...
6. All media is shared (recordedtv, video, dvds, blu-ray, pics, music etc)
again common media housed on WHS or such -- I used Win2003 Server)

Sage doesnt support Blu-ray at all - unless you have an extender. And that is only in Beta. (correct me if I am somhow wrong).

The idea for those of us who would like to use Sage (ie. ME) is that we dont want to buy the hardware extenders. Simply would like to use the software client and server configuration.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by sflamm

Several points:

1. I dont claim MyMovies is the best. Though it is pretty easy to use. HOWEVER, it is the only collection manager that supports multiple clients simulataneously (see #4 below as to why this is so important)
2. MyMovies most important feature is that it unifies the DVD types
3. VMC users do NOT use extenders, windows extenders suck (duh)
4. Usually VMC users build a second small box that has another VMC installation (it is a 'soft' extender... would be even softer if they had ever released 'softsled')
5. The 'extender' VMC boxes do everything... so there is no difference between any of them -- only that the 'Main' VMC box is doing the recording. No transcoding etc...
6. All media is shared (recordedtv, video, dvds, blu-ray, pics, music etc)
again common media housed on WHS or such -- I used Win2003 Server)

Sage doesnt support Blu-ray at all - unless you have an extender. And that is only in Beta. (correct me if I am somhow wrong).

The idea for those of us who would like to use Sage (ie. ME) is that we dont want to buy the hardware extenders. Simply would like to use the software client and server configuration.

Okay If you are avid in TGB I am sure you have seen me there. To say people don't use extenders duh is completely and utterly wrong. I have installed many cable card systems and the only way to get content around the house is extenders. Allot of people also don't want a pc small client small or big in each room in there house and if you think media center users don't use extenders you are completely mistaken.

Also sage does support blu rays in beta as you said and it works perfect on extenders you can even play back form the drive of the computer no need to rip.

If you prefer the client/server configuration then good but allot of people don't want to mess with codecs and errors on the pc and the extender (in sage or media center) elimantes this problem.

Sage unifies all dvd types as well have you even tried it?

[sflamm]

I agree that the Beta provides GREAT functionality that is unmatched by other solutions. It has definitely got my attention. Finally a system that does what people really want! I want one (actually many).

With that said, folks like me who already have the hardware (SFF pc) around next to each TV, dont want to spend an extra $200 to replace each and every box right away. If these great new extenders had been around a long while ago (I'm a long long term Media Center user) then of course I would have bought them from the start. So the challenge is to move to these extenders over time as the extenders functionality increases and justifies the cost switch (and I can spend the $).

In the meantime, the most cost effective strategy is to put a Sage software client on each one and get the same functionality as the hardware extender -- of course that isnt yet possible as the software client does not have the blu-ray functionality -- unless you rip and transcode which is excessively painful.

However, the point here isnt whether or not the Sage extenders are a good thing. The question was whether or not Sage users would benefit from a MyMovies integration. The answer is YES. That would provide the Sage software clients with the equivalent functionality that the beta hardware extender firmware has furnished (i.e. by automounting the ISO and playing in PowerDVD). Why would Sage not want to provide that to its customers as well? I am arguing that it would be highly desirable and make it a no brainer for customers that dont want to buy / cant buy the hardware extenders just yet to switch off VMC.

As for the VMC extenders -- I'll have to disagree with you. I know a lot of people try them. As you said there is a lot of discussion at TGB. But as I'm sure you know, the solution sux (functionality, UI etc very very limited). And they are expensive. The cost of a SFF PC running VMC is about the same and provides everything that is wanted/needed. Of course the complexity is higher (codecs etc) like you said. But it is the only end-to-end client/server solution that REALLY worked once set up.

In the long run, hardware extenders are easier and cheaper. I love the direction of Sage. I've always been impressed with a lot of the functionality /direction (ie. why does VMC have such crazy tuner restrictions? why do they not support commercial skipping OOB? Why did they not support more Video types? and on and on...) . But NOW they are really setting themselves apart and providing a compelling reason to switch. VMC had the whole world in their hands back with MCE 2005 and they have botched the hell out of it.

[gplasky]

As stanger mentioned above there is already a couple of plugins that can mount an .iso (one from within Sage) and you can call an external player such as PowerDVD in a couople of different ways. So in essence Sage can do it just like WMC/VMC can. Sage will minmize, start up PowerDVD and play the BR disc. DVD Profiler supports metadata for DVDs and BR and Sage can import that metadata with a plugin or SageMC UI has it built in. SO it doesn't need a MyMovies integration-it can already do it. And if you're using a MCE remote and IR receiver it controls Sage and PowerDVD right out of the box.

Gerry

[sflamm]

Which approach do you suggest I use to setup an equivalent functionality to VMC with MyMovies? I am more than willing to try it.

My questions/concerns are (all things MyMovies does for me):

1. Does Sage transparently import DVD profiler meta data or is that an integrated step with SageMC front-end? Or do I have to manually import it for every disk I have on my hard drive?
2. Do I need to specify specific folder names etc... or is that transparently taken care of when I rip a DVD and use the DVD profiler? What about box sets?
3. Which ISO mounting plug-in approach is recommended/simplest?

Any info you could provide me would be greatly appreciated.

[PLUCKYHD]

Alright I will stop the aggressice aproach with you we have to agree to disagree on the extenders at this point but remember with media center and drm there is no choice but extenders in many installs.

That being said there is a program called bmi
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34301

This will auto import data as they are added to sagemc libraries. Will grab fanart and all no problems. (but remember there is allot coming in th next release that will change fanart so i would wait.)


It is a great utility as long as you name your folders correctly (just like my movies requires)

Also with dvd profiler you can import easily see this
http://www.geektonic.com/2008/11/sag...-organize.html

I am a long time media center user and trust me I am not missing media center at all at this point. It is functionality tops media center in so many ways. Once you install sagemc and use dynamic menus the options are limitless. I have a blu-ray icon, dvd icon, and home movies icon on my main screen that keep everything nice and seperate for the wife.

[gplasky]

Originally Posted by sflamm

Which approach do you suggest I use to setup an equivalent functionality to VMC with MyMovies? I am more than willing to try it.

My questions/concerns are (all things MyMovies does for me):

1. Does Sage transparently import DVD profiler meta data or is that an integrated step with SageMC front-end? Or do I have to manually import it for every disk I have on my hard drive?
2. Do I need to specify specific folder names etc... or is that transparently taken care of when I rip a DVD and use the DVD profiler? What about box sets?
3. Which ISO mounting plug-in approach is recommended/simplest?

Any info you could provide me would be greatly appreciated.

1. You export your DVD Profiler collection to the collection.xml file. From within the SageMC UI under My Videos you would use the Options command to bring up the Video Library Options dialog and choose Metadata Options. From here choose DVD Profiler Refresh and any new additions to your Video Library is updated with the metatdata from DVD Profiler. Another option is to use stuckless' Batch Metadater Import plugin Batch Metadata Thread which will automatically update the new video library additios with the info from DVD Profiler.
2. When you rip a DVD you need to follow the SageTV manual as to how it should be done but it is basically movie title\VIDEO_TS with it ripped to .vobs and .ifos. Multi-discs rips (box-set) can also be handled with DVD Profiler. Multiple discs will show under the one DVD cover.
3. Mount and unmount iso's within Sage

Gerry

[goatboy22382]

The reason that I would like to see a mymovies plugin is that it is so easy to bring new dvd's into it. I use the WHS version of both mymovies and sage. When ever I put a dvd into the drive it is automatically ripped. I then have to rescan the media library for it to be added to sage and then it still does not have any meta data. If you could simply connect to the mymovies database and read all this information then it would be a near seamless process. There is a driver the dean wrote for CharmedQuark that does exactly this. It pulls all the information for the dvd's into CQC so that you can browse them by cover art. Then there is a sage driver that allows me to launch the dvd through the cqc interface. If I could get the same metadata in cqc and sage that would be awesome.

[PLUCKYHD]

Originally Posted by goatboy22382

The reason that I would like to see a mymovies plugin is that it is so easy to bring new dvd's into it. I use the WHS version of both mymovies and sage. When ever I put a dvd into the drive it is automatically ripped. I then have to rescan the media library for it to be added to sage and then it still does not have any meta data. If you could simply connect to the mymovies database and read all this information then it would be a near seamless process. There is a driver the dean wrote for CharmedQuark that does exactly this. It pulls all the information for the dvd's into CQC so that you can browse them by cover art. Then there is a sage driver that allows me to launch the dvd through the cqc interface. If I could get the same metadata in cqc and sage that would be awesome.

Why not use bmi to get the data automatically?

[sflamm]

3. Mount and unmount iso's within Sage

Accroding to the information in that thread - you cannot play a physical dvd without unmounting the virtual drive... is that correct?

Is there a way of automating the unmounting of the virtual drive when you use the "play dvd" command to play the physical disk?

[sflamm]

This technique for mounting ISOs is pretty terrible.

User's have to know that the movie is an ISO and then choose an "External Program"?!!!

The whole point of the MyMovies plug-in is that you simply press "Play" (same as "Watch" in SageTV) and the plug-in does the right thing.

Is there not an equivalent in SageTV?!!!

There is no way my family will know what type the underlying movie is when they watch. The whole point of pointing the Meta Data in is to make the experience seamless. This is anything but seamless?!!!

Please let me know if there is a workaround...

[loomdog32]

Originally Posted by sflamm

This technique for mounting ISOs is pretty terrible.

User's have to know that the movie is an ISO and then choose an "External Program"?!!!

The whole point of the MyMovies plug-in is that you simply press "Play" (same as "Watch" in SageTV) and the plug-in does the right thing.

Is there not an equivalent in SageTV?!!!

There is no way my family will know what type the underlying movie is when they watch. The whole point of pointing the Meta Data in is to make the experience seamless. This is anything but seamless?!!!

Please let me know if there is a workaround...

MyMovies SEEMS seamless!!! And is ALOT EASIER to install!!! I personally do not use iso (use mkv for HD content - always have), but from what I have seen, Sage can display the library as 1 whole library (it appears this way to me, and I have mixed DVD rip, mkv, avi, mpg) and playback feels ths same to me (granted Im useing the internal player, as I did with VMC)..

Iso over complicate the playback process, tho I understand why someone would want to use them when it comes to HD playback (mount the disk and playback using PDVD/TMT).. From what I have seem, this is possible in Sage and is as seemless as it appears to be in VMC.. Again I do not do this, but its appears possible...


With all the MyMovies talk, im surprised that no one really talks about the little things it does.. IE, Trailer and Actors/Directors (and Actor/Director info).. This is really the only thing I miss from the USABILITY of MyMovies.. I liked to be able to look up an Actor and get a list of movies I have (or had) that the Actor played in along with Actor bio and pic. Then I could watch the trailer (if I didnt have the trailer, it looked it up on yahoo?) for the movie..

Alright I will stop the aggressice aproach with you we have to agree to disagree on the extenders at this point but remember with media center and drm there is no choice but extenders in many installs.

That being said there is a program called bmi
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34301

This will auto import data as they are added to sagemc libraries. Will grab fanart and all no problems. (but remember there is allot coming in th next release that will change fanart so i would wait.)


It is a great utility as long as you name your folders correctly (just like my movies requires)

Also with dvd profiler you can import easily see this
http://www.geektonic.com/2008/11/sag...-organize.html

I am a long time media center user and trust me I am not missing media center at all at this point. It is functionality tops media center in so many ways. Once you install sagemc and use dynamic menus the options are limitless. I have a blu-ray icon, dvd icon, and home movies icon on my main screen that keep everything nice and seperate for the wife.

Have you used MyMovies?? MyMovies ability to search and find metadata is night and day BETTER (considering it catalogs data by UPC - This would be by far the #1 reason to use it for metadata)!!! Yes the recent additions using SageMC (fanart and metadata scrappers - which I do use) are amazing, but not as user-friendly or complete/accurate!!



If there were a Sage plugin that simply scanned the "video" library and used the MyMovie database for metadata, maybe also the backend catalog program to adjust/fix/change metadata. It would be awesome!!! Then there might be a reason in implamit Actor/Director/Trailer functionally into Sage or SageMC, as the info would now be there!!

[whartsell]

For the past few days i have been playing around with integrating the MyMovies Database into Sage. What i have got working right now is Alpha level functionality. I can browse by title and pull up movie details from the MyMoviesDB directly along with the cover art from the MyMovies "secret share" that is created on the MyMovies server. The backend Java code is pretty simple for me to do but where my experience is lacking is in Studio work.

If anybody is interested I am willing to discuss in more details what my goals are and any other feedback and features people would use. I am also interested in making this a collaborative effort with SageMC developers of all levels.

If there is any interest let me know and i can start a new topic where we can go into more detailed discussion

[sflamm]

You should connect up with Stuckless on this thread:

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...609#post354609

What would be great, is if you can take your code and implement the phoenix APIs -- then you would have just created the MyMovies metadata/fanart provider which everyone wants!

[Peter_h]

Originally Posted by whartsell

For the past few days i have been playing around with integrating the MyMovies Database into Sage. What i have got working right now is Alpha level functionality. I can browse by title and pull up movie details from the MyMoviesDB directly along with the cover art from the MyMovies "secret share" that is created on the MyMovies server. The backend Java code is pretty simple for me to do but where my experience is lacking is in Studio work.

If anybody is interested I am willing to discuss in more details what my goals are and any other feedback and features people would use. I am also interested in making this a collaborative effort with SageMC developers of all levels.

If there is any interest let me know and i can start a new topic where we can go into more detailed discussion

Stuckless and evilpenguin are the two guys you want to talk to.

[jaminben]

After doing some reading and watching a few tutorial videos about mymovies I'm confused as to why anyone would want to use this when there are tools already available (BMT) that can get all this info for you. As far as I can workout its no different than DVD profiler and just enables you to keep an external database of all your movies. Am I missing the point? I would much prefer to copy the ripped film to my HDD go downstairs flick to the movies screen and initiate a metadata scan via my remote and be able to select the correct movie metadata/fanart from a list if more than one search result is available.

[dbone1026]

Originally Posted by jaminben

After doing some reading and watching a few tutorial videos about mymovies I'm confused as to why anyone would want to use this when there are tools already available (BMT) that can get all this info for you. As far as I can workout its no different than DVD profiler and just enables you to keep an external database of all your movies. Am I missing the point? I would much prefer to copy the ripped film to my HDD go downstairs flick to the movies screen and initiate a metadata scan via my remote and be able to select the correct movie metadata/fanart from a list if more than one search result is available.

I have been using different programs (VMC, SageTV, MP, etc...). Although SageTV was the first Media Center Program I was exposed to it just never stuck (no need to derail the thread and explain what has kept SageTV from being my main Media Center App, but just so people don't think I am just coming on here to flame and am not a user I do use SageTV to some extent, have it running on my WHS, and have the HD200 set up. For my HTPCs I use primarily to watch movies though and find MediaBrowser in VMC to be much more robust). What I like about MyMovies is there are several aspects to it

1) External Program called Collection Management - I like being able to see my entire movie collection with metadata outside of a Media Center App

2) MyMovies in VMC - automatically detect when a new movie is added and allow you to select metadata. I also find that MyMovies has the best collection of front covers ( i prefer to grab the actual dvd covers, especially blu ray, as opposed to posters)

3) Link up trailer to movie

4) Most importantly, you simply install the myMovies file, select an option or two, and that is it.

Now I am not saying that MyMovies is the best scraper out there, and not saying that some of the stuff I listed above cannot be handled by SageTV scrapers. Honestly, I use MyMovies mostly to get the front covers, but since it currently doesn't even pull in fanart I end up using other scrapers (metabrowser/Media Info Plus). Also, I have never used DVDProfiler, but from my understanding it is not free, which for me knocks it down a big step against many of the other scrapers out there (yes you can contribute for additional functionality in MyMovies, but that is not necessary for the base functionality).

So why not use BMI? Well, right now for me two reasons - no external program (I don't always want to open SageTV to have to view my library, especially when I am just looking over the metadata). The main reason though is I go to the BMI thread, click on the install instructions, and I am now treated to what appears to be 12 steps that need to be followed to get BMI up and running. Yes, I understand that once you set it up you are done, but still I don't want to feel like I have to print out a checklist just to get it up and running. With VMC (either through myMovies or MediaBrowser/Metabrowser) or XBMC (through MediaInfoPlus) it is a simple one step install process with maybe an option or two to select, but that is it. This is not a knock on the developer of BMI as I would assume this is more a limitation set forth by SageTV.

So maybe what I am trying to say (and maybe this is what other people are trying to say as well), do I "need" myMovies in its exact form in SageTV, no. What I want though for SageTV is a MyMovies type scraper (or really most other scrapers being used for the various other Media Center Softwares) that has an external UI (free) along with being integrated within SageTV, and doesn't require me to follow some lengthy checklist just to get installed.

[PLUCKYHD]

As a previous avid Media Center user I can say that the interface with sage and autofetching is worlds and leaps beyond mymovies at this point IMHO.

If you don't like it change it direct from the sage interface. To me you are still comparing a dated interface and a pay for collection management.

[dbone1026]

Originally Posted by PLUCKYHD

As a previous avid Media Center user I can say that the interface with sage and autofetching is worlds and leaps beyond mymovies at this point IMHO.

If you don't like it change it direct from the sage interface. To me you are still comparing a dated interface and a pay for collection management.

Pay for CM, have yet to do that and don't plan on as it is not needed for MetaData??? Also, there are other scrapers out there like Metabrowser and Media Info Plus that I would not label outdated. As I mentioned, I like to be able to see my metadata in a separate UI, but this is just my personal preference, I don't want to open up SageTV just to maintain. I am not knocking SageTV, and there are definite pluses and minuses (and of course some things are more important to users then others).

[whartsell]

Their are three reasons why i prefer my movies. It has nothing to do with the content scrubbers (however i think they are the best so far)

1. SageTV's DB has no concept of a collection of dvds. It will always show all of them in the browser. Granted there are workarounds but nothing adequate for my taste

2. SageTV's DB cannot associate Episode metadata to a physical disk in a collection. For example with the MyMovies DB you can select a series and either select a single title in the collection or from the whole collection list every episode on the disk(s) and launch them from there. Note that the MyMovies plugin for VMC doesnt support this but the MyMoviesDB does and i have already experimented with implementing this in sage.

3. Ability to externally modify metadata outside of SageTV

So in short the reason why i prefer MyMovies so much that im working on a plugin is the fact that SageTV's DB is insuffucient for my needs. The plugin im working on is not just a scrubber or metadata importer but actually bypasses the sagedb all together for movies on the screens im working on